Conquering Noisy 12-Volt Water System

[Lloyd]

Originally Posted by Monkeyclaw

With an accumulator tank, you should be able to pressurize the system pretty good before you go to bed then turn off the pump. There should be enough pressure in the system to flush once or twice without using the pump.

Some times you can get one----maybe two, but don't count on it.
My suggestion to anyone that is going to do this, if you have room for a bigger tank for an accumulator, do it.
I have seen where some have used the real small house hold pressure tanks. Rave reviews with those tanks.

[FW28z]

A follow up.

Last weekind our water pump started to cycle on and off, about once every 30 seconds. Uh oh. I have a leak somewhere.

But if I am lucky, it might be a bad diaphragm in the pump that is not holding pressure.

I have noticed the water pump cycled once about every 30 minutes previously but didn't think much of it as it might just be "normal" loss of pressure from just being dormant.

But not once every 30 seconds. That is clearly abnormal.

And... I found a leak. Luckily, it was the nylon drain cap in the water heater. Water was leaking out of the water heater like crazy. And, I had just replaced the cap earlier this season due to the previous owner/dealer/factory (whomever it was) using a pair of pliers to tighten/loosen the cap previously.

The cap had a crack in it... good ol' Made in China plumbing.

So, after replacing the plug... no more leaks, no more pump cycling, and no more banging pipes.

I am theorizing that the 30 minute pump cycling was due to the cap starting to leak, and was letting a small amount of air in the pipes, which was causing the banging.

So, those of you having these symptoms - check for a small water leak.

[FW28z]

A follow up.

Last weekind our water pump started to cycle on and off, about once every 30 seconds. Uh oh. I have a leak somewhere.

But if I am lucky, it might be a bad diaphragm in the pump that is not holding pressure.

I have noticed the water pump cycled once about every 30 minutes previously but didn't think much of it as it might just be "normal" loss of pressure from just being dormant.

But not once ever 30 seconds. That is clearly abnormal.

And... I found a leak. Luckily, it was the nylon drain cap in the water heater. Water was leaking out of the water heater like crazy. And, I had just replaced the cap earlier this season due to the previous owner/dealer/factory (whomever it was) using a pair of pliers to tighten/loosen the cap previously.

The cap had a crack in it... good ol' Made in China plumbing.

So, after replacing the plug... no more leaks, no more pump cycling, and no more banging pipes.

I am theorizing that the 30 minute pump cycling was due to the cap starting to leak, and was letting a small amount of air in the pipes, which was causing the banging.

So, those of you having these symptoms - check for a small water leak.

[blw2]

I sprung a leak last weekend too. Mine turned out to be the cap on the pump's suction side strainer. Looked as if the plastic cap had been over-tightened. I'm just puzzled why it took all this time to let go......

Anyway, I noticed while dealing with it that these little pump get extremely noisy with air in the line.

[streamcamper]

I have noticed the system is louder when air is entrained, but it does work itself out over time... until the next time air is introduced. What I plan on doing is encasing the loose water lines with std pipe insulation which should isolate any vibrations/movement and quiet the system down.

[JDHoge]

Members,

I apologize for the long gap in my posts on this thread/topic. We haven't had to use the 12 volt water system for quite a while, so it wasn't until recently that the noise issue came back up.

I haven't installed a quieter pump nor an accumulator as i wanted to try just one more thing prior to taking those steps. Here is the idea, and I'd like to know what others think of it:

The last remaining area of rattling water pipes is behind the showed and I can't easily get in there to tie them down.

So, I'm thinking that a small spray of "Crazy Foam" insulation material might be shot through a small tube sized-hole (less than an 1/8 inch) just below the hot and cold shower handles (low enough not to hit the unit itself and carefully drilled to avoid hitting the water lines which must be equally spaced apart at the handles). I might do this again half way down the shower wall to the floor and then again right near the shower floor (maybe 2 inches above it).

It seems to me that if I can avoid hitting the supply lines and restrain myself from shooting too much foam, that this might silence the rattling pipes. Granted there is a lot to lose here if I screw up. But I'm starting to think that this is worth the risk.

I guess a worst case scenario would be if I accidentally hit a water line and had to use my plunge cutter to get behind the shower wall for repairs; secure the pipes properly and then install an oversized plate using clear silicone to hide the opening...

Any thoughts?

John
Athens, GA

[blw2]

Yeah, might work.

My concerns include potential moisture entrapment problems, especially if there's ever a leak
and
the mess it would make for you if you ever need to get into the wall to work on that plumbing.

If I were considering it, I think I might do a little playing around with the foam first, to get a real world idea about its volumetric expansion rates.....
Maybe even make a little mockup of the wall so you could get a visual of how it might act

I tried something similar once.... I was trying to attach something to a hollow core door, approx eye level. On a whim I bought some of that foam and squirted it in before passing the bolts through. My thought was that it might fill the void to add a little support to the skins. I'm not convinced that it did any good. I had the feeling that most of the foam dripped down inside the cavity before it had a chance to expand where I needed it.

[FW28z]

I sometimes have that same banging noise in my lines - also in the shower. The banging only occurs when shutting off any water line, but not when the pump is running.

But then I got to thinking... (which is sometimes dangerous).

I found that my antifreeze port cap was only semi-tight, which means I might have been getting air into the lines. And I am thinking that perhaps my banging is possibly due to that.

Thing is, I didn't have any problems with the shower banging until we hooked up to city water at a campground. Then it started the next time we used the pump.

The hook up to city water might be simply coincidental, but something definitely changed.

Is that change perhaps the antifreeze port cap becoming loose?

I'm going to fix that problem and try it again next season to see if the banging has gone away.

[JDHoge]

Originally Posted by blw2

Yeah, might work.

My concerns include potential moisture entrapment problems, especially if there's ever a leak
and
the mess it would make for you if you ever need to get into the wall to work on that plumbing.

If I were considering it, I think I might do a little playing around with the foam first, to get a real world idea about its volumetric expansion rates.....
Maybe even make a little mockup of the wall so you could get a visual of how it might act

I tried something similar once.... I was trying to attach something to a hollow core door, approx eye level. On a whim I bought some of that foam and squirted it in before passing the bolts through. My thought was that it might fill the void to add a little support to the skins. I'm not convinced that it did any good. I had the feeling that most of the foam dripped down inside the cavity before it had a chance to expand where I needed it.

I see your points. I've worked with crazy foam in several situations and have noted that it tends to drop before it expands. And then there is also the danger of getting too much into a void where it can't escape, which, I am told can be dangerous as the material produces heat as it expands and can develop enough force to warp thin plastics.

A model would be the judicious approach, for sure, but I'm pretty lazy these days.

Can you think of any other approach to the problem? Has anyone disassembled a typical Thor shower stall? I'll have to go out and examine its structure. I've seen the big round attachment buttons but never messed with them. I'm thinking the surround is one piece placed on a floor pan.

[JDHoge]

Originally Posted by FW28z

I sometimes have that same banging noise in my lines - also in the shower. The banging only occurs when shutting off any water line, but not when the pump is running.

But then I got to thinking... (which is sometimes dangerous).

I found that my antifreeze port cap was only semi-tight, which means I might have been getting air into the lines. And I am thinking that perhaps my banging is possibly due to that.

Thing is, I didn't have any problems with the shower banging until we hooked up to city water at a campground. Then it started the next time we used the pump.

The hook up to city water might be simply coincidental, but something definitely changed.

Is that change perhaps the antifreeze port cap becoming loose?

I'm going to fix that problem and try it again next season to see if the banging has gone away.

I'd like to locate my antifreeze port plug.... Any idea where it might be?

[blw2]

near your pump most likely. Mine is behind a blank cabinet panel in my kitchen, also where the water tank is......

[JDHoge]

Members,

I am pleased to report that my attempt to quiet the water pipe noise behind the shower wall worked! The packing of the area with Great Stuff foam strips worked very well. As I've said before, however, I think styrofoam peanuts would have worked as well and as one other forum member mentioned, you might even be able to solve a noise issue with standard foam pipe insulation. At any rate, there is no need to remove the shower or drill any holes or even to use wet Great Stuff. If you pack the area sufficiently, your shower water pipes will be quiet!

[FW28z]

Glad you were successful. Might be something I need to do in the future. Still not sure how I will access the area though.

[JDHoge]

Originally Posted by FW28z

Glad you were successful. Might be something I need to do in the future. Still not sure how I will access the area though.

Thank you, FW28z. Access in my case was pretty easy. The cold and hot water faucet for the shower was mounted with several square headed wood screws that had little pop-off caps anchored by clear plastic washers under the heads of the screws. No need to pull the H & C handles, but you may have to pull the hose to the shower head off to gain more clearance. My rig also had a clear silicon bead that ran around the perimeter of the faucet body where it mated to the shower wall. It broke easily and when I put things back together, I laid down a new and slightly thicker bead.

Hope this helps.

[FW28z]

So you just removed that cheap plastic housing for the shower faucet?

I probably have the same thing as I think this is a very common faucet.

[JDHoge]

Yes, yours looks very similar. It should come off easily.

[cmjones]

On my 2015 Palazzo 35.1 I relocated the water pump and filter from the coach right side to the left side. This change removed about 30 feet of Pex tubing and put the pump and filter in the water bay where the selector valve is located. The removed Pex tubing was slapping against the coach during pump operation. At the same time I added a very small accumulator and mounted everything on a foam pad with rubber hoses for connections. When I first turned the pump on I thought it didn't work. The pump can only be heard if everything in the coach is quiet.

[fhenn]

Nice job Thanks for sharing

[FW28z]

I fixed my banging pipes problem.

Thor cheaply installs an antifreeze port on the water system (would they do it any other way)?

Instead of doing it properly and installing a 3 way valve (which disconnects the water tank - and - connects the antifreeze port), they cheap out with a 1 way valve and simply disconnect the water tank when you want to winterize and pump in antifreeze.

The top of the antifreeze port is then blocked off with a cap. This (hopefully) prevents the introduction of air into the water line.

In late 2013 when we bought the coach, the dealer winterized it. And mid-year last summer, the pipes began to bang.

When I did the winterization last year, I discovered the cap was not tight. So I improved it by adding a valve to the antifeeze port.

And I summer commissioned the water system today... and no banging pipes.

So my theory was definitely correct, air was getting sucked into the system from a lose antifreeze port cap.

[JDHoge]

That's good news. Where would one look for this port in a Four Winds 31F? Any ideas?