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10-25-2019, 01:03 AM
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#21
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Chateau 31L
State: Florida
Posts: 2,063
THOR #12189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Denman
Are you sure that you don't want them to throw in some worthwhile incentives?
You know: something like a nice Sprinter-Based Class C?
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You in the market AGAIN?
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10-25-2019, 03:04 AM
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#22
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Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurnerFam
...I watched, but now I'm even more confused....they taunt the 'lithium' as equivalent to 80 'regular' house batteries...o.k., but the video shows a GENERATOR up front, not some '40,000' amp hours of Lithium...and even MHSRV's own printed advertisement says '6 house batteries'. The ad even says '10k Generator', even though the video shows a 8k generator...
which is it????? Is it a LITHIUM powered coach, with NO generator, or is it just a Lithium 'House Battery' powered coach?
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I’m pretty certain it’s not 40,000 amp hours. That would be off the charts.
The MSRP shows under options a 40,000W lithium package costing $125,250.
Video states 40,000W and 36,000 Watt-hour.
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10-25-2019, 10:41 AM
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#23
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I Think We're Lost!
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 22,195
THOR #8860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Breeze
You in the market AGAIN?
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Me? . I'm happier than a clam in wet sand...
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10-25-2019, 11:11 AM
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#24
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I Think We're Lost!
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 22,195
THOR #8860
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... But a thought did occur...
Thor says that this rig is hand-built to showcase the new technology.
Do you think that they would DARE to release it in anything but perfect condition?
This one might just be built to the standards that we have been looking for!
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10-25-2019, 12:52 PM
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#25
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Site Team
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axis 24.1 Windjammer
State: Illinois
Posts: 1,179
THOR #7074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Denman
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Bob, Super gorgeous!
...the only photo that scares me is. Who is going to be the first one sitting on that wooden seat in the shower??? My toilet paper holder fell off the wall by the time I drove home from the dealership?
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Rev. Jeffrey 2017 Thor Axis 24.1 E450 Windjammer.
Silver Safe-T-Plus Steering Control
SSF-106-40 SumoSprings Solo Front Bump Stop SSR-107-47 SumoSprings Rear Bump Stop
Hellwig 7718 Front Sway Bar & 7180 Rear Sway Bar
Koni FSD Front Shocks 8805-1042 / Koni FSD Rear Shocks 8805-1043
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10-25-2019, 01:07 PM
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#26
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I Think We're Lost!
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 22,195
THOR #8860
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I am the eternal optimist...
I don't think that Thor would DARE build such a technologically important piece: if it wasn't perfect right out of the gate!
This might just be THE Thor to buy!
(And at 42% off of retail too! )
__________________
"What: me worry?"
Good Sam Member 843599689
Current coach: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
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10-25-2019, 03:46 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
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I have difficult time imagining people in a 45-foot bus needing that much battery capacity. It seems a mismatch.
Best use of lithium technology is probably for those boondocking on a regular basis, and I expect owners of 45-ft rigs to normally stay in luxury resorts. I may be completely wrong though.
I guess you can visit National Parks, boondock at football games, etc. with a 45-ft motorhome, although I expect the demand for this type of motorhome isn’t that great. And even if it had lithium batteries for convenience, why so much?
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10-25-2019, 03:55 PM
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#28
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I Think We're Lost!
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 22,195
THOR #8860
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It's not really about how you'd expect someone to use that RV...
Thor chose to showcase the technology in their flagship vehicle.
But I would never dare to question how someone will want to use their rig.
You might want to spend an evening (or more!!); in a Walmart parking lot. You might as well do it in "top-shelf" fashion!
__________________
"What: me worry?"
Good Sam Member 843599689
Current coach: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
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10-25-2019, 05:08 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
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That’s what marketing and product development guys get the big bucks to get right, otherwise they create products no one wants or can afford. The right product at the right price doesn’t normally have to be discounted so much.
Besides, $125,000?
You can buy an entire Tesla with more than twice the battery capacity for less.
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10-25-2019, 05:15 PM
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#30
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I Think We're Lost!
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 22,195
THOR #8860
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Speaking of Tesla...
My Missus has a Nephrologist; who has the Model S...
He absolutely LOVES it!
__________________
"What: me worry?"
Good Sam Member 843599689
Current coach: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
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10-25-2019, 05:33 PM
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#31
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
State: Georgia
Posts: 2,585
THOR #4735
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I think there's some confusion on this 'new' versus 'prototype' Tuscany...
One video I saw, with Steve from Thor showing it off and asking questions of the battery manufacturer rep at a trade show, was a FULLY BATTERY powered house - NO generator. This was a huge Lithium battery bank in the old 'generator' compartment, replacing the need for any generator. It also required the THREE pure sine wave INVERTERS, mounting in the main slide. You could run your whole coach off this battery bank with no need for Shore Power - everything, including the three roof air conditioners. It had the additional large alternator to help charge the battery bank while traveling, and also the integration of the Solar panels on the roof, as well.
This ADVERTISEMENT from MHSRV and it's video seems to only be showing a 'Lithium version' of a Tuscany, with most everything else being the same, including a Large GENERATOR, which is not really anything 'new', per se. The video IS confusing, though, almost as though it has clips of both versions of this Tuscany, showing the three Inverters in one clip, while showing a Generator in another, but yet NOTHING about the huge Lithium Battery bank....
I'm still confused. The MHSRV video 'looks' like it is alluding to the 'prototype' Tuscany, special built by the factory for 'display' purposes, yet the info attached to it, and the generator in front, tell me otherwise.
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the Turners...
two Campers, two Electric cars
former diesel pusher traveler
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10-25-2019, 08:51 PM
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#32
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Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
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The video for original prototype starts by stating they got rid of generator, so you’re correct.
https://youtu.be/Cnnon-_zpo0
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10-25-2019, 09:05 PM
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#33
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Tuscany
State: Texas
Posts: 484
THOR #1808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance
I’m pretty certain it’s not 40,000 amp hours. That would be off the charts.
The MSRP shows under options a 40,000W lithium package costing $125,250.
Video states 40,000W and 36,000 Watt-hour.
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that tuscany has been there a while. 125k for the volta system is PRICEY to say the least. you could buy ten onan gennys for that price.
but they have discounted the rig to offset eh option price.
bet its still there come january. huge gamble to take it on imo
399k is also still hmmmmm to much for the unit. but i am thrifty
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retired Navy driving the short bus 2008 Tuscany 4056
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10-25-2019, 09:58 PM
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#34
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I Think We're Lost!
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 22,195
THOR #8860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance
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But how many times have your heard this little ditty?v
"Specifications are subject to change without prior notification."
They probably thought it best to give folks a bit of a "lifeboat"; in case they got nervous about the batteries...
__________________
"What: me worry?"
Good Sam Member 843599689
Current coach: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
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10-25-2019, 11:05 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
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It’s a fine line balancing between higher costs and capabilities in my opinion. If the RV has enough battery capacity so it doesn’t need a generator as a backup, then it needs extremely high recharging rate to get the batteries charged back up in short period. That’s tough on a system with 36,000 Watt-hour of usable capacity.
On the other hand, if you’re going to include a generator anyway as a backup, then why spend so much on that much battery capacity? Granted, if the cost is indeed around $300 per kWh (or lower) as Jamie reports, then 36 kWh is under $11,000, so the high system cost is coming from somewhere else.
The difference between $125,000 for this lithium system seems out of proportion with what Winnebago charges, about $20,000, for the much smaller Travato system. And even that seems high to me.
Personally, I like the idea of having just enough batteries to boondock overnight, assuming you’re going to be driving next day to recharge. Initially that’s where I see the sweet spot between cost and capabilities, or most bang for the buck.
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10-25-2019, 11:15 PM
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#36
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Tuscany
State: Texas
Posts: 484
THOR #1808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance
It’s a fine line balancing between higher costs and capabilities in my opinion. If the RV has enough battery capacity so it doesn’t need a generator as a backup, then it needs extremely high recharging rate to get the batteries charged back up in short period. That’s tough on a system with 36,000 Watt-hour of usable capacity.
On the other hand, if you’re going to include a generator anyway as a backup, then why spend so much on that much battery capacity? Granted, if the cost is indeed around $300 per kWh (or lower) as Jamie reports, then 36 kWh is under $11,000, so the high system cost is coming from somewhere else.
The difference between $125,000 for this lithium system seems out of proportion with what Winnebago charges, about $20,000, for the much smaller Travato system. And even that seems high to me.
Personally, I like the idea of having just enough batteries to boondock overnight, assuming you’re going to be driving next day to recharge. Initially that’s where I see the sweet spot between cost and capabilities, or most bang for the buck.
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you hit a high point. it has an extra engine driven alternator to try to recharge. i could see a CG inquiring about how long to recharge, when you you have 100 amps of a/c power and over half that is just to run the equipment in the coach.
its a big battery bank and the earlier items on it suggested days of running the roof top a/c units. but at 125K i would stick with a 8k watt genny or 10k watt
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retired Navy driving the short bus 2008 Tuscany 4056
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10-26-2019, 12:24 AM
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#37
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Axis/Vegas Enthusiast
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axis 24.4
State: Michigan
Posts: 9,837
THOR #1150
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Yeah Tesla is paying close to $100 /kWh these days (scale: they are turning out cars at a phenomenal rate).
They also use a different chemistry than what is/likely will be used in RVs. Even so, though, $125k can get you a very nice EV (not just a Tesla, but a Jaguar, or an Audi even) with a bigger battery.
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10-26-2019, 02:15 AM
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#38
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Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerboatr
you hit a high point. it has an extra engine driven alternator to try to recharge. i could see a CG inquiring about how long to recharge, when you you have 100 amps of a/c power and over half that is just to run the equipment in the coach.
its a big battery bank and the earlier items on it suggested days of running the roof top a/c units. but at 125K i would stick with a 8k watt genny or 10k watt
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Yeah. Pictures of that motorhome show it has 3 air conditioners. Combined they could easily require 3,600 Watts (likely more), so if air conditioning during day in hot weather, they could drain batteries in about 10 hours. And if it wasn’t for generator, you’d have to run the 450 HP diesel for about 4 hours if alternator can charge at 9,000 Watts (assuming no other loads). If still running A/Cs, it would take over 5 or 6 hours of fast idling.
Its easy to see why Thor added a generator to the Tuscany with lithium package (compared to prototype). I expect those buying that kind of luxurious coach want few compromises.
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10-26-2019, 02:26 AM
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#39
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Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieGeek
Yeah Tesla is paying close to $100 /kWh these days (scale: they are turning out cars at a phenomenal rate).
They also use a different chemistry than what is/likely will be used in RVs. Even so, though, $125k can get you a very nice EV (not just a Tesla, but a Jaguar, or an Audi even) with a bigger battery.
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Volta site states they use same battery chemistry as auto industry, so battery cost could be fairly low.
I think so much of required battery capacity is driven by air conditioning, that some company needs to focus on designing and building an ultra-efficient RV air conditioner. Rather than throwing more money at larger batteries, inverters and alternators, more efficient air conditioners should cost less.
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10-26-2019, 02:39 AM
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#40
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Axis/Vegas Enthusiast
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axis 24.4
State: Michigan
Posts: 9,837
THOR #1150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance
Volta site states they use same battery chemistry as auto industry, so battery cost could be fairly low.
I think so much of required battery capacity is driven by air conditioning, that some company needs to focus on designing and building an ultra-efficient RV air conditioner. Rather than throwing more money at larger batteries, inverters and alternators, more efficient air conditioners should cost less.
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Just need to scale this guy up.
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