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Old 06-09-2015, 03:06 PM   #1
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Additional Axis/Vegas Floorplan

I just found out that there will be a new Axis/Vegas floorplan in the next couple of months, but was disappointed that there is still no option to go slideless. I was hoping that as more floorplans were added at least one without slides would be included in product mix.

My question is whether waiting for a slideless floorplan is pointless because it is unlikely to materialize. I was glad to hear the new floorplan reportedly will have a front dinette which I need/want for forward-facing seating; which addresses one of my concerns for car seats. However, it will also have a rear bedroom slide which I'm not keen on (different than the 25.2's).

Since the original 24.1 did not have a bedroom slide they must have thought it was a good idea, so why can't they offer rear twin beds on floorplans without slides at front? Is that kind of decision driven by marketing, or are buyers just unwilling to buy a Class A without at least one slide?
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Old 06-09-2015, 03:15 PM   #2
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Perhaps they just think it would feel far to small in there without a slide. I know our 24.1 feels pretty cramped when the couch slide is in.
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Old 06-09-2015, 03:25 PM   #3
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Chance,

I believe the trend within the industry is more and bigger slides rather than smaller and fewer.

It appears to me through the magazine subscriptions that I receive the only way to go without a slide is to go down to the class B level.

With that said, Itasca (Winnie) has just come out with one Class A floor plan on their new throwback to the 1960 designs in the new Tribute and Brave models. They are the only ones I know of that are coming out with a Class A without slides.

The Itasca is the RV review in the current issue (June 2015) of Family Motor Coaching Magazine.
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Old 06-09-2015, 03:51 PM   #4
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Perhaps they just think it would feel far to small in there without a slide. I know our 24.1 feels pretty cramped when the couch slide is in.
Yes, I also don't like the feeling of slides when they are in. I also don't like the way they look when in -- looks messy and out of place to me like it's not suppose to be there. I much prefer the clean and unobstructed appearance of slideless.

What's confusing to me is my inability to look at front and rear of Axis/Vegas as one rather as two separate areas that for the most part don't have to work together (in some models anyway).

If the 25.2 front living area can function without a slide, and the 24.1 rear bedroom area can function without a slide, then why can't they be combined in one RV? Neither area would be any more "cramped" than in their respective RVs. Even if they had to add an extra foot to length, that seems like a small compromise.

I'm obviously not on same page with US RV industry and trying to understand why. Europeans have far more smaller Class As to choose from -- many if not most without slides.
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Old 06-09-2015, 04:02 PM   #5
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....cut.....

With that said, Itasca (Winnie) has just come out with one Class A floor plan on their new throwback to the 1960 designs in the new Tribute and Brave models. They are the only ones I know of that are coming out with a Class A without slides.

....cut......
I have seen those Retro RVs at RV shows, and appreciated lack of slides. I also liked the idea of the rear motorized bunk (if I recall correctly), but don't like the "Retro" design or the general size. I don't want an RV that tall or wide shaped like a brick that gets 7 to 8 MPG.

The Axis/Vegas on an E-Series chassis is the closest thing to a compact Euro-style motorhome that I like.
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Old 06-09-2015, 04:19 PM   #6
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I have seen those Retro RVs at RV shows, and appreciated lack of slides. I also liked the idea of the rear motorized bunk (if I recall correctly), but don't like the "Retro" design or the general size. I don't want an RV that tall or wide shaped like a brick that gets 7 to 8 MPG.

The Axis/Vegas on an E-Series chassis is the closest thing to a compact Euro-style motorhome that I like.
I know what you mean about the "brick" and I believe you are giving undue credit with the 7 or 8 mpg. I believe it would be closer to 4 or 5 because there is no aerodynamic design to that thing what so ever.
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Old 06-09-2015, 04:42 PM   #7
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How about 8 mpg:
2015 Brave 26A - Early Review

Interesting reading that thread...it almost sounds like a Thor!
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Old 06-09-2015, 05:32 PM   #8
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Yup 8 MPG. Maybe going downhill on a 3 percent grade with a 30 MPH tailwind. That is the only way someone is going to cut through the wind with that eyebrow on top.

I would be interested in knowing what engine RPM is required to maintain 55 MPH on level ground.
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Old 06-09-2015, 07:31 PM   #9
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Yup 8 MPG. Maybe going downhill on a 3 percent grade with a 30 MPH tailwind. That is the only way someone is going to cut through the wind with that eyebrow on top.

I would be interested in knowing what engine RPM is required to maintain 55 MPH on level ground.
Ford specs show the 16,000-pound F53 chassis comes with 4.30 gears, 0.71 overdrive, and 33-inch OD tires. That works out to fairly tall gearing. I estimate around 1750 RPM at 55 MPH in top gear.

By comparison, the new E-Series stripped chassis, which also has the new 6R140 6-speed transmission with V10, may be geared lower according to Ford specs I've seen. They only list 4.10 and 4.56 final gears, but tires are much smaller in diameter.

As small and efficient as the Axis/Vegas is, they should be able to run easily with 3.73 final gears. I'm not sure if manufacturers can special order 3.73 gears in lieu of 4.10.

An early interview with Thor manager suggested Axis/Vegas were geared extra tall for fuel economy. If so, that option is not shown on Ford specs I've seen.
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Old 06-09-2015, 07:39 PM   #10
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Not questioning the Axis/Vegas,, but rather that retro brick from Itasca where someone claims to be getting 8 MPG.
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Old 06-09-2015, 08:47 PM   #11
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Not questioning the Axis/Vegas,, but rather that retro brick from Itasca where someone claims to be getting 8 MPG.
I understood your comment. Just implying that the Brave could get OK mileage if driven slowly because the gearing is high for a motorhome.


I then added my assumption that if the V10 engine can push that brick through the air, the similar V10 in Axis/Vegas would likely need even taller gearing to optimize fuel economy. Or perhaps rely on the standard 5.4L V8 instead of the optional 6.8L V10.

When Axis/Vegas first came out with claims of up to 12 MPG, I questioned if that was with V8. I was told by Thor that V8 was not considered because Ford was expected to phase it out of production earlier than the V10.
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Old 06-10-2015, 12:14 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance
When Axis/Vegas first came out with claims of up to 12 MPG, I questioned if that was with V8. I was told by Thor that V8 was not considered because Ford was expected to phase it out of production earlier than the V10.
Claims of 12!? Our sales person told us 14! I had to stifle a laugh at that comment.

Our Axis w the V-10 gets about the same mpg we used to get with the 5er and an F-350.

Went from this:

Totalling 15,000+ lbs (8k for truck, 7k for 5er) getting 6-10 mpg depending terrain, wind, etc.
To the Axis at 11,400 lbs where we've been getting between 7 and 9 mpg.
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Old 06-10-2015, 12:27 PM   #13
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Claims of 12!? Our sales person told us 14! I had to stifle a laugh at that comment.

....cut.....
I guess 12 MPG may be possible if you could drive slow enough and with little load, but that's not practical for most of us on an "average" basis. Not that the difference between 10, 12, or even 14 MPG is a deal breaker for me because the difference in fuel cost isn't that great compared to all other costs. Particularly when we only drive between 5,000 and 10,000 miles per year at most.

Fuel efficiency is not the main reason I want a smaller motorhome, although obviously I'll take as much as I can get, everything else being equal.

In my opinion to have any chance at 14 MPG on gasoline the motorhome would have to be downsized a little more than an Axis/Vegas. A European size Class A like I'm looking for may get to 14 if speed is kept down.
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Old 06-10-2015, 12:35 PM   #14
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It would also be great if a motorhome like Axis/Vegas would have an option for a large-size Mega-Storage in rear tall enough to carry at least bicycles and other recreational items. Many Euro motorhomes include these small garages.
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Old 06-10-2015, 12:37 PM   #15
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I guess 12 MPG may be possible if you could drive slow enough and with little load, but that's not practical for most of us on an "average" basis. Not that the difference between 10, 12, or even 14 MPG is a deal breaker for me because the difference in fuel cost isn't that great compared to all other costs. Particularly when we only drive between 5,000 and 10,000 miles per year at most.

Fuel efficiency is not the main reason I want a smaller motorhome, although obviously I'll take as much as I can get, everything else being equal.

In my opinion to have any chance at 14 MPG on gasoline the motorhome would have to be downsized a little more than an Axis/Vegas. A European size Class A like I'm looking for may get to 14 if speed is kept down.
Have you checked into the folks that do the custom Sprinter conversions such as these folks?

Sportsmobile Custom Camper Vans - Sprinter Cost Examples

Those may be more along the lines of the European motorhomes.
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:06 PM   #16
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Have you checked into the folks that do the custom Sprinter conversions such as these folks?

Sportsmobile Custom Camper Vans - Sprinter Cost Examples

Those may be more along the lines of the European motorhomes.
I'm familiar with Sportsmobile -- they have a location in Texas and in the past displayed their products at the Houston RV Show. I like that they can build on a custom basis, so you get what you want and eliminate what you don't want.

Even though the Thor Axis/Vegas is only 94-inches wide, and the Siesta and Citation Sprinters 90 inches wide, they are still much wider than a van. The sidewalls also being completely vertical makes them much more spacious by comparison to a van. For that reason if we decide to go with a van, we'll likely get a RAM ProMaster instead of a Sprinter. They are significantly wider and sidewalls more vertical so they don't feel as cramped, although Sprinters can be longer.

If it were for just my wife and me, a ProMaster custom conversion van would work great. It's when we want to take others with us or tow a trailer that an Axis would be far superior. And its cost is no higher, making it a tough decision.

If Thor offered an Axis/Vegas designed more like a high-end van conversion I'd be all over it. Even some of the features from the Siesta Sprinter would be a welcomed upgrade that can't add that much cost yet would make the interior feel roomier. As an example, it seems to me that vans and smaller RVs often use cabinets slightly less deep so it provides a wider aisle, but that requires smaller stovetops like a 2-burner integrated unit with glass top.

Maybe the issue is that there is not enough of a market for high-end small RVs. Given a limited budget, I think most buyers prefer size over quality. At least in US.
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