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Old 12-05-2014, 12:33 AM   #1
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THOR #1150
Another new Axis/Vegas floorplan

Another new Axis/Vegas floorplan has popped up on the Axis website: The 25.2:

2015 Axis Motorhomes: Class A RV by Thor Motor Coach

Another detail I noticed a while ago: They are now shipping with 8000lb hitches instead of 5000lb ones (ones built after 10/1/2014). If you've recently picked one up you may want to check on that (this makes sense since when we weighed ours it was only 11,400 lbs which left 7100 lbs left over of GCWR for a trailer).
The hitch is noted on the features page:
http://axis-motorhomes.com/features.php
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Old 12-05-2014, 12:59 AM   #2
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I like the extra bedroom length but I prefer our sofa living room with the slide there.
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Old 12-05-2014, 01:10 AM   #3
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Yeah without the slide it looks cramped.
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Old 12-05-2014, 02:49 AM   #4
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Be careful with the 8,000lb hitch. the GVWR is still 12,500lbs with a 18,500lb CGWR, which means a 6,000lb max trailer towing capacity.

I didn't think you could borrow from the GVWR - true weight, but I am not an engineer so I really don't know.

Perhaps they changed out to a 8,000lb hitch to allow you an extra 1,000lb capacity (as opposed to a 5,000lb hitch), or perhaps it is a typo?

I also noticed though that the Class C's are now listed with an 8,000lb hitch... both E-350 and E450 based coaches.

The E-350 has a GVWR/CGWR of 12,500/18,500lbs and the E-450 has a CVWR/CGWR of 14,500/22,000lbs.

Does your 11,400lbs actual weight include gas, passengers, and cargo?
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Old 12-05-2014, 03:10 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FW28z
Does your 11,400lbs actual weight include gas, passengers, and cargo?
Yes: full gas, full propane, full water, empty waste, stuff all loaded up, and the 3 of us.
Well I can't take advantage of it; we only have the 5k hitch.
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Old 12-05-2014, 03:14 AM   #6
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That sounds about right. I'm at 11,559lbs with a tank full of gas but no cargo, water, or passengers. But my rig is a bit larger and on a E-450.

Not sure if the metal cage of my cab is heavier than your fiberglass equivalent or not.

I always wondered why Thor used the E-350 for the Axis and not an E-450. The Axis has the upgraded V10 that is standard on the E-450 so why not get the 2,000lb extra capacity.

At any rate, I am glad to see the Axis floorplan having a Queen sized bed. I see that as a large improvement, as I am sure the current bed configurations would be a deal-breaker for some folks. I am sure more people use these things for overnight RV'ing than for tailgating or going to the beach.

Still, wonder why they did not keep the slide out on the side.
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Old 12-05-2014, 08:53 AM   #7
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Now that you mention it: I had always wondered why Ford continued to sell the van chassis with the 2V V-10 while the pickups got the 3V version. It would seem simpler to just make a single version of the V-10. Unless Ford prebuilt a bunch of engines and had a stockpile to use up. If that is the case it would make sense for the E-Series to finally get the 3V now that the 2V version is no more.
Which brings up another thought: When Ford started producing the Transit stateside and discontinued the E-Series vans I had read in an article that they would continue the E-Series chassis for the aftermarket for a limited time. This means that all the RV Class-Cs (and the Vegas/Axis) are on borrowed time and Thor will have to migrate them all to the Transit chassis at some point. This begs the question: Why start a completely new camper design (Vegas/Axis) with an end of life chassis?
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Old 12-05-2014, 12:35 PM   #8
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So is it primarily a difference in heads between a 2-valve and 3-valve engine?

I have not seen the torque curves between the two, but I remember a huge controversy in boats between EFI and carbureated engines, with the EFI giving you an additional 30Hp.

But in that case the 30hp was "funny power" as for some unknown reason (to me), you could run an EFI engine at a higher RPM than the carb engine. And that higher RPM meant 30 extra horsepower - but that horsepower was only available at full open throttle, whereas to be useful (at least in a boat), you want more torque at the lower end of the RPM range.

I am not saying the V10 is the same, but an additional valve sounds like it allows more fuel in (or is it exhaust out). Does this just allow higher RPM like a boat with "funny horsepower", or does it allow more lower RPM power?

Again, I am not an automotive engineer and I don't know... this is just all speculation by me.

We actually saw a full size Ford transit van yesterday. It is a really radical difference in look, and I am not sure how it would look on a Class C. Probably a lot better than the Dodge van though.

The one issue I see is the raked windshield probably means less of an overhang for the front (above cab) berth.

I suspect it would be cheaper for Ford to discontinue the E-series as that allows them to make just a single chassis. Aferall, they probably really don't sell that many commercial vans as it is (in terms of economy-of-scale).

Perhaps they are continuing the E-series cutaways for a short period of time so the aftermarket body builders can adjust.
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Old 12-05-2014, 01:08 PM   #9
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From what I remember the 3-valve engine has two intake and a single exhaust allowing the cylinder to fill with air faster (and less resistance). Basically it breathes better. On the pickups the 3V engines also came with better headers (good enough that 3V engines really didn't benefit that much from aftermarket headers as the stock ones are really good).
I had a 1999 F-250 with a 2V and a 2008 F-350 with the 3V and the difference in HP, torque, etc. was very noticeable between the two.
Looking at the sales the E-Series sold about 100k-125k a year..not to shabby:
Ford E-Series Sales Figures - GOOD CAR BAD CAR
Looks like Ford is the commercial van leader, even after the introduction of the Transit (wow!):
GOOD CAR BAD CAR: Van Sales
Interesting, here is just about everything you'll ever want to know about the Vans and stripped chassis vehicles:
https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...-17-14-v46.pdf
(Take a look at the cutaway image on page 25!)
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Old 12-05-2014, 01:20 PM   #10
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Unibody! In a commercial vehicle? Yuck.

Guess the CARB rules is affecting common sense (trying to keep it non-political).

I did talk to an automotive engineer recently (he is a member of our Good Sam chapter), but he worked for GM (he is retired now).

Anyway, he stated that the Triton is known for having a shabby exhaust system, and that would be one thing he would modify should he have one.

Anyone know where the local South Michigan Carl Banks installation shop is?
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Old 12-05-2014, 01:29 PM   #11
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LOL I saw the unibody text too but then the cutaway and chassis cabs show a frame!?

I know the Camping World in Belleville, MI installs Banks headers, and so does the Cummins Bridgeway shop in New Hudson (Cummins Diesel Engine Repair and Parts).
(I think I'd trust Cummins before Camping World on that install!)
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Old 12-05-2014, 02:11 PM   #12
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I see there is a Cummins Bridgeway shop in Grand Rapids. A lot closer to me than New Hudson.

Also there is a Camping World in Grand Rapids. I have not had any work done there, but others I know have, and they said that at least there, it is a good place for service and installation.

The Grand Rapids Camping World is co-located with American RV, and I think they are essentially the same operation. So perhaps their service department is a bit better than most Camping World locations?

At any rate, both are about 50 miles from where I live.

One more thing to put on my wish list.

Dang... there goes another $1,000. I think I must still own a boat.
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Old 12-05-2014, 02:16 PM   #13
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Re: the new floor plan on the 25.1 vs. the 24.1 Axis: Think we actually prefer the king size bed option over the queen size. Gives more room for the dog. Also, without the side slide, I would imagine it gets rather tight in the kitchen area. The rear slide will mean an inflatable queen mattress there too I'm guessing? The larger shower with sink moved across the bath is nice but no roll out privacy door isn't? Like the oval table in the front vs. the rectangular one between the captain's chairs and pantry pull out.

Overall though, I still like our floor plan over this one but to each their own and I'm sure they'll sell some of these versions.
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Old 12-06-2014, 02:04 AM   #14
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After taking a closer look at the rear slide out, I think my assumption of it not having a permanent bed with an inflatable mattress may be incorrect. Does anyone know what the actual arrangement is?
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Old 12-06-2014, 02:14 AM   #15
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The only info we have is what is on Thor's website.
My thought when looking at it is that the bed moves with the slide which allows a normal mattress to be used.
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Old 12-06-2014, 02:43 AM   #16
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I meant to reference the 25.2 instead of 25.1 earlier but you're probably right about the bed moving with the slide. Looks like the slide stops at the step which would leave a portion of it still sticking out the rear.
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Old 12-06-2014, 08:52 PM   #17
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Larry,

I haven't seen it so I can't say for sure,. That said, we looked at several "out the back" slider B+s and Cs. All had a mattress that folded in the middle. I can't remember what the platforms did, but they must have telescoped somehow. It's possible that there's enough room for a normal mattress, but I would tend to doubt it.

We liked the idea but it looked like the split in the mattress would always be right where you need the most support. We're quite happy with the full-size twins in our 24.1!

Randy
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Old 01-21-2015, 03:21 AM   #18
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I saw a 25.2 model at the Tampa supershow. The bed has a solid mattress and can slide in without being folded. It has a very large and usable shower. The renegade Vilaggio also has a bedroom slide with a full mattress that does not need to be folded
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