Go Back   Thor Forums > Thor Brands and Products > Thor Motor Coach | Class A, Class B+ & Class C Motorhomes
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 10-27-2016, 11:42 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axis 24.1
State: Ontario
Posts: 12
THOR #2311
Unhappy Battery Control Center or BIRD and Trombetta

I own a Thor Axis 24.1 (2015), while reading threads on Bi-Directional Isolator Relay (BIRD) and Trombetta that some Vegas owners have, I looked at my Axis to see where those BIRD/Trombetta were. I could not find them, however I found a metal box called Battery Control Center (BCC) in the storage compartment (under the driver's seat). It is a TH-1020 and the printed circuit board inside is a RV Custom Products FW-221 Rev B.
So, as I could not find the Trombetta nor the BIRD, I contacted Thor Warranty and the answer was that I did not have a BIRD/Trombetta because I had a BCC.
I was happy until Ed Felker had a look at his Vegas and confirmed that he had the BCC box and also the BIRD/Trombetta. We are both baffled by that.
Could someone sheds some light on this interrogation? It would be nice to see what you have on your Vegas and your Axis.
Thanks for looking
__________________

__________________
claude28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2016, 12:27 AM   #2
Axis/Vegas Enthusiast
 
JamieGeek's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axis 24.1
State: Michigan
Posts: 8,129
THOR #1150
Our 2014 Axis does not have a BIRD/Trombetta, only the BCC. There is a large solenoid connected to the BCC that does the switching.

Here is a PDF on the BCC (at least in another camper but you can get the gist of it) including the circuit diagram.
__________________

__________________
2014 Thor Axis 24.1
2018 Chevy Bolt
blog - https://spareelectrons.wordpress.com/
JamieGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2016, 01:43 PM   #3
Junior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axis 24.1
State: Ontario
Posts: 12
THOR #2311
Hi JamieGeek, this document refers to the same unit I have: FW221 Rev B. I also found a couple of days ago the same on the IRV2Forum. It is a very good description of the different functions. It would have been nice to have the schematic diagram to see the different components and wiring.
What I find funny is the fact that some motorhome have the BCC and the BIRD. It would be interesting to see what type of BCC they have.
THanks for including the document, it is definitely going to help other members since the information on the BCC is very scarce.
__________________
claude28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2016, 01:48 PM   #4
Axis/Vegas Enthusiast
 
JamieGeek's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axis 24.1
State: Michigan
Posts: 8,129
THOR #1150
Quote:
Originally Posted by claude28
What I find funny is the fact that some motorhome have the BCC and the BIRD.
I think that is just the evolution of the the units as Thor figures out better/cheaper ways to build them. Given that the BCC has a lot of functions on it that aren't utilized in the Axis/Vegas units it is probably cheaper for them to move to the BIRD/Trombetta solution.
__________________
2014 Thor Axis 24.1
2018 Chevy Bolt
blog - https://spareelectrons.wordpress.com/
JamieGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2016, 04:21 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
bevedfelker's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2015 Vegas 24.1
State: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,304
THOR #2601
Claude and I have been emailing and yesterday I checked my 2015 Vegas in the storage yard. The fuse box under the driver's seat in the storage compartment is not the same BCC TH-1020 by RV Custom Products. The picture that Jamie had included in a previous post about the TH-1020 shows the white decal with TH-1020 just like Claude.

My box is smaller than the TH-1020. It only has a part number printed on it. It does not have the automatic functions that the TH-1020 has. I think it is just basically a circuit box with relays, circuit breakers, and fuses.

I had found a troubleshooting guide on line for the TH-1020 and sent it to Claude (file attached). In that troubleshooting guide on the section entitled "Auxiliary Start and Charging Relay Function" is a description of how the voltage sensors and battery relays work to charge the chassis and coach batteries. This description is very similar to the description of how the BIRD, Isolation Relay (Trombetta), and Battery Disconnect Relays work together in those applications that use the BIRD and Trombetta instead of a BCC.

Guess I have to include an edit in my manual for those applications where there is only a BCC and no Trombetta & BIRD (like mine).

This also points out the importance when talking to Thor Customer Service to ensure you provide them a VIN. Claude had done that and Thor Customer Service verified he had a BCC and that precluded having a BIRD and Trombetta (that we spent the better part of 2 days looking for). It is interesting to point out that Jamie's Axis is a 2014, and Claude's 2015 Vegas 24.1 is identical to mine. The moral here is that Thor's builds can have variance within a specific model year .
Attached Files
File Type: doc TH-1020 Troubleshooting guide.doc (35.0 KB, 183 views)
__________________
Ed & Bev Felker
Retired USAF Col and retired Nurse
Traveling with Lily & Bella ('Teddy Bear' breed)
2015 Vegas 24.1 (E-350)
bevedfelker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2016, 04:27 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
bevedfelker's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2015 Vegas 24.1
State: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,304
THOR #2601
Here is a picture of inside the cover on the fuse/circuit breaker box under my driver's seat in the storage compartment. The only thing identifying it is what looks like a part number in the upper left corner of the corner. Also notice it is a Thor part and not an RV Custom Product like the BCC.

Surprisingly, the PDF Jamie sent you I had with the documents Thor had sent me.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2016 Fuse Box.JPG
Views:	234
Size:	123.7 KB
ID:	3274  
__________________
Ed & Bev Felker
Retired USAF Col and retired Nurse
Traveling with Lily & Bella ('Teddy Bear' breed)
2015 Vegas 24.1 (E-350)
bevedfelker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2016, 06:39 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
bevedfelker's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2015 Vegas 24.1
State: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,304
THOR #2601
So -- after spending two days trying to find Claude's BIRD & Trombetta that do not exist, I suddenly realized that Thor uses two different battery control systems on the Vegas/Axis. One uses the Battery Control Center and the other uses a BIRD and Trombetta to control what battery set charges when and under what conditions.

I had assumed that all Vegas/Axis used the BIRD & Trombetta as is installed on my 2015 Vegas. The manual I compiled only addressed the BIRD/Trombetta installation in controlling battery charging.

I revised the manual today to include a description of the Battery Control Center application and updated relevant pictures for both applications.

Here is the link to where you can find the revision. The link at the 7th post of the sticky on the Motorhome Tech Topic area contains the new revision.
https://1drv.ms/w/s!AiYx6DLSeiiP6UNyy_VYGDO0BW6L
__________________
Ed & Bev Felker
Retired USAF Col and retired Nurse
Traveling with Lily & Bella ('Teddy Bear' breed)
2015 Vegas 24.1 (E-350)
bevedfelker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2016, 11:23 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: S.O.B.
State: California
Posts: 1,187
THOR #3483
Chassis Battery Charge Issue

Okay,
This may sound like something that has been posted before but need to share the issue while still fresh in my mind from the most recent outing. So we parked the 2016 24.1 Axis at the camp site for Thanksgiving. Dry camping this time. Parked on Wednesday.... only used the chassis radio as far as the chassis battery was concerned. Ran the generator for more than an hour in the morning and in the evening. Saturday morning.... went to start up the engine to depart and.... nothing.... Luckily, I held down the emergency start rocker switch and the engine turned over so we didn't need to call the relative for a jump.
Thought the generator and shore power were supposed to charge every battery above the tires.... What do you think is the problem?
__________________
axis earl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2016, 11:41 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Oneilkeys's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2016 Axis 24.1
State: Florida
Posts: 2,209
THOR #1765
You can check whether the generator (or shore power if you plug in) is charging the chassis battery by reading the voltage off if the right side of the Trombetta (when looking at it from the front). It should read from 13.6 to 14.2. From your post, it looks like that may not be happening. I had a similar problem on my 2016 Axis. It turned out to be a miswired BIRD. Is your coach new? Have you had any problems with charging the house or chassis batteries previously?
__________________
Oneilkeys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2016, 12:58 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: S.O.B.
State: California
Posts: 1,187
THOR #3483
Charging Issue

Yes, bought it new last January. I have had the chassis battery go dead when plugged in to shore power and sat for about four weeks. No problem with the coach batteries, either with generator or shore power.

I plan to call the RV dealership the coming week to set up the last of the fixes under the one year manufacturers warranty. This issue and a few other minor things.
__________________
axis earl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2016, 10:50 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axis 24.1
State: Florida
Posts: 611
THOR #4366
We had a similar problem. This is occurs, or at least on ours, when the BIRD is wired on the cranking battery side of the Trombetta rather then the house side. The WFCO in ours doesn't always output a high enough voltage for the BIRD to activate the Trombetta.
__________________
2016 Axis 24.1 E-450 6 spd tranny
300 watts portable solar.
200 watts solar on the roof.
Wrangler JK dinghy
scrubjaysnest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2016, 12:38 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Oneilkeys's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2016 Axis 24.1
State: Florida
Posts: 2,209
THOR #1765
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrubjaysnest View Post
We had a similar problem. This is occurs, or at least on ours, when the BIRD is wired on the cranking battery side of the Trombetta rather then the house side. The WFCO in ours doesn't always output a high enough voltage for the BIRD to activate the Trombetta.
Then your WFCO is really not working. The Trombetta (if it is working correctly) needs just 13.1v to open. The WFCO should put out 13.6v in its normal charge mode and 13.2 in float mode - more than enough to activate the Trombetta. InAxis Earl's case it seem the Trombetta may be working from the alternator to the house batteries but not visa versa. If that is true, it may be miswired from the factory as mine was.
__________________

__________________
Oneilkeys is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Thor Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.




All times are GMT. The time now is 07:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
×