Generator and Fuel Management...

[The Gritz Carlton]

Chance...you missed the entire point here...read the entire thread. It's about "Power Management", using generators with minimal draw, fuel consumption, fuel tanks and sizes, power options while dry camping for several days, etc, etc., etc. At my age...saving it for later only means leaving it behind. This is later!!! We spend a week at Atlanta Motor Speedway...dry camping. EVERY MH out there (including the big DP's) has dual Honda's, Champions, or some other type of alternative power source other than the "big hog" onboard unit. And they use them. There are pump out and water trucks that service the campgrounds but no fuel trucks. And,the new Onan QD6000 is an inverter generator.

[Bob Denman]

The term "inverter generator" is a new one to me...
Does that mean that it provides 12-Volt power?

[jpmihalk]

Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton

Chance...you missed the entire point here...read the entire thread. It's about "Power Management", using generators with minimal draw, fuel consumption, fuel tanks and sizes, power options while dry camping for several days, etc, etc., etc. At my age...saving it for later only means leaving it behind. This is later!!! We spend a week at Atlanta Motor Speedway...dry camping. EVERY MH out there (including the big DP's) has dual Honda's, Champions, or some other type of alternative power source other than the "big hog" onboard unit. And they use them. There are pump out and water trucks that service the campgrounds but no fuel trucks. And,the new Onan QD6000 is an inverter generator.

And this is why we have 400W of solar panels. Minimal generator usage required. When we dry camp and go tailgating, the vast majority of those around us have external generators (Hondas and Champions) and they are loud and have no way to vent above a roof line (as with a Genturi.) In the fall when it is nice out it is a shame to have to keep the windows shut to keep the exhaust from blowing in from everyone around us. Many of these folks keep them running all night and stay outside partying. I have been awakened more than once by our CO alarm going off in the wee hours.

I wish more people would do an electrical budget and understand what is needed to run off the grid instead of just barreling on in, hooking up generators and firing up their external TVs and getting hammered without a care in the world. We at least try to be responsible citizens/good neighbors and do quiet hours, etc.

OK, I am off of my soap box now... let the flames begin!

[Bob Denman]

If it starts getting "toasty" in here: I've got one of these that's in your size!

http://www.thorforums.com/forums/att...1&d=1525456007

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

The term "inverter generator" is a new one to me...
Does that mean that it provides 12-Volt power?

Google is your friend: Conventional vs Inverter generators.

[Bob Denman]

Time to "Google-Up"!

http://www.thorforums.com/forums/att...1&d=1525458081

[blw2]

Originally Posted by Chance

blw2, I believe his is a 6,000 watt Quiet Diesel Generator, so not quite the same as a gasser or propane as far as fuel consumption. Should be much better.

However, specs show his motorhome has two 13,500 A/Cs, so probably could run close to 50% generator load when running.

On the good side, specs also show MH model comes with 1,800 watt inverter, and if wired to power TVs like it should, there is no reason to run a generator at all on a cool evening just to watch TV. If/when batteries get low, then start generator to recharge them, and hopefully this coincides with time when air conditioner is needed.

If 40-gallon rear fuel tank is available 100% for generator (and it may not be), there should still be plenty of diesel for 3 days. That assumes MH engine has a different (front) fuel tank to get him back to a fuel station.

I'd confirm how much fuel is available from rear tank to power generator and go from there. Sounds to me that it's all good as is.

yeah I figured it was a larger system overall from what I've got, but my greater point is it all aint running all the time. If it's only getting to 80 degrees during the day, then maybe both units might need to run during the peak temp hours, but mostly you can likely get away with one unit just maintaining cool...and even then the compressor would be cycling...and like you said even that doesn't have to be full time..... so the average load is likely fairly low.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton

Chance...you missed the entire point here...read the entire thread. It's about "Power Management", using generators with minimal draw, fuel consumption, fuel tanks and sizes, power options while dry camping for several days, etc, etc., etc. At my age...saving it for later only means leaving it behind. This is later!!! We spend a week at Atlanta Motor Speedway...dry camping. EVERY MH out there (including the big DP's) has dual Honda's, Champions, or some other type of alternative power source other than the "big hog" onboard unit. And they use them. There are pump out and water trucks that service the campgrounds but no fuel trucks. And,the new Onan QD6000 is an inverter generator.

Semantics perhaps, but to me it sounds like the underlying issue (objection) is not due to “Power Management”, at least not in a technical sense. Not that it really matters.


Anyway, thanks for heads-up on your generator being inverter type. I was hoping Onan would get off their butts and enter this area for RVs . Maybe they had a long time ago and I just missed it. I’ll now have to look to see if common 4,000-watt gasoline generator (or equivalent) is made.

By the way, now that I’ve seen that it’s an inverter generator, I personally wouldn’t think twice about bringing along other ones with me, or diesel cans. What you have is awesome. I’d only put a Venturi on exhaust and let her rip.

I looked at Onan specs for inverter 6,000-watt generator and fuel consumption is lower than you indicated in initial post. Is it possible you got bad info? Or maybe my data is wrong? Makes a big difference in available run time.

Like most inverter generators, it uses much less fuel at or near idle because engine doesn’t have to always run at 3,600 RPMs even when it’s not needed for the power. If just watching TV or other low-power loads, it will almost idle. And that saves a lot of fuel. It’s really nice.

.13 Gallons/hour at idle

.40 GPH at 50%

.70 GPH at 100%

With only one A/C running part of the time you should be under a few gallons a day. And only 66 decibels from 10 feet at 50% power for a bare unit — likely less than that after installation? What’s not to like?

Oh, and no brushes to replace. Seems a no brainer. At most I’d take one Honda as a backup on first trip in case I encountered unexpected electrical issues with new motorhome. From fuel standpoint I’d make sure rear tank is close to full and not worry at all.

[tigwelder]

i would think that if you can afford a motor home that the cost of a little gas would be the last thing on your mind. at least your wife knows why you have a generator and knows how and why its there.

[The Gritz Carlton]

tigwelder..read the entire thread...it isn't about "the cost of a little gas", but you are exactly right...that's what I used..."a little bit of gas". I t was a great weekend and a fun experiment. Overall, I used 5 gallons of gas and approximately 2-3 gallons of diesel...over a 3 day period. During the cool mornings I used the Champion for coffee and small stuff. During the peak heat hours mid-day I ran the Onan when I needed both A/C's and it ran flawlessly. you could hang meat in the MH. At night when only one A/C was needed...back to the Champion. Had I ran the Onan the entire time we used generators, I would have used 20-25 gallons of diesel, minimum. There were a few others doing the same thing as me. There were a fair number of owners that came over during the weekend and asked the same questions as posed here..."why do you use that little thing when you have a brand new, built in big one?". After great conversations many agreed and said they would consider doing the same thing. The guy next to me (that made numerous runs to the gas station with his 5 gallon jugs, feeding his onboard gas unit that ran full throttle) said..."I got one a them little Honda 3000's at home...I coulda done the same darn thang...I done burned up 28 gallons of gas so far". As for the total solar options, off-grid, fumes and tree huggin'...this is a race track dude, not Yellowstone! There were far more racing fuel fumes, beer breath, dust and campfire smoke in the air than there were generator fumes. Anytime you place yourself in a dry camping, multi-camper environment...expect this. This isn't about money...that's the least of my concerns at this point in my life. It's about power and fuel management in a multi-day, dry camping environment. I was very pleased with the results for me and I will continue to carry and use both options. I would have been in a real bad situation had the only generator I had with me failed. Another guy next to me the other direction just bought a new Predator 3500 from Harbor Freight. It crapped out on him in the middle of the first night and he had to go to Home Depot next morning and buy another. As I stated earlier..."One Is None....Two Is One". When it's something you must have...carry two!!

[The Gritz Carlton]

AND...thanks for the advice and wake-up call on the Genturi!! Never hear of them but saw a fair number of them this weekend. What a great product and they break down for storage!! I will be ordering one of these this week. Many of these mega "gooberamas" such as race tracks, dragways, etc., where campers park close to each other are now starting to limit camping to self-contained motorhomes only and use of an exhaust riser is mandatory (Gator Nationals in Gainesville is one).

[Muggs]

Sounds like you had great weekend. Sad to hear of the Top Sportsman driver passing. That was an ugly crash. RIP Mr. Alexander.

You ended up doing what me and many of my buddies do. It saves money and conserves resources plus the added value of a backup system is win, win. Even when we do not take racecar trailer, the champion is bolted to a hitch basket as a backup.

[Muggs]

I ran at Gainesville for New Years race. Car only worked good in daylight. Off the trailer was .0003 reaction, all went downhill from there. I was parked in John Forces spot.

The 40 degrees and below temps did not help my old slicks.

Had a blast in any event and met a bunch of new people.

[The Gritz Carlton]

That was a bad crash indeed. We saw it live. It ended in an immediate, massive gray dust cloud with parts flying everywhere. The chopper flying in was a sign it wasn't gonna end good. I also appreciate your comments and input from someone that has practiced this as well. Some here don't read the entire thread and don't realize we are talking...EXTENDED DRY CAMPING with limited resources.

[lazinskm]

So this is a very interesting thread! After reading the google page, do we think anyone has tried to substitute one of the portables for their Onan? It would be great if you were just able to hook up the gas line to them. Who wants to experiment?

[Muggs]

I have thought about it. Fuel system in portable is gravity feed, the Onan in RV is setup to work with fuel pump. This may require a change in float/needle/seat assembly. That may render portable operation inactive.

Shutting down to refill is not much of an issue for me. If fuel low in heat of day we just switch to RV Onan for A/C while portable cools. When fueling, I also check oil and spray linkages. It helps that I use same jugs for racecar and generator fuel as I use pump premium in both. Usually dump leftover in RV at end of weekend. Premium seems to help with pinging in V-10.

[The Gritz Carlton]

That's what this thread is about...the substitution. Yes, you could run an auxiliary gas line to the portable generator...IF it's a "fuel pump" feed style generator (EX: Honda EU2000i). You have to purchase a special gas cap and fuel line/connectors. Google "B.E.R.G. extended fuel run systems". You can also purchase "parallel kits" whereby you connect 2 of the Honda 2000's together and have 4,000 watts. I use Honda as the example as that's what I use. Many of the smaller 2 and 3,000 portable inverter generators offer same options. If the portable is a "gravity feed" fuel system...it's more complicated than it's worth trying to convert.

[Muggs]

Another issue would be portables do not seem to carry as much oil as the internal Onan. Portables need to be somewhat level and I doubt the would handle sustained cornering. The Onan 4000 has 1-5/8 quarts in sump, the Champion I use has a little over 1/2 quart.

[The Gritz Carlton]

Northern Tool carries a small fuel transfer pump that operates on 2 D cells. It is approved for gas or diesel. I use it for refueling Champion and don't have to shut it down. The Hondas run from a remote 5 gallon tank set away from generators.

[lazinskm]

Yeah, there would definitely be some engineering issues, but the possibilities would be great, esp in parallel. Run only one at a time? Be able to unhook to take portable if needed? Both would be nice. I don't know much about AC current at all, but see all the threads on sine wave inverter. I was looking at rigs w/ residential fridges, but am leary of them for a number of reasons. If the fridge is hooked up to an inverter supplied outlet I assume that even w/ the generator on the power goes thru the inverter and is "cleaned"?