|
|
07-29-2016, 01:21 PM
|
#21
|
Site Team
Brand: Entegra
Model: Accolade 37TS
State: South Dakota
Posts: 8,726
THOR #1469
|
As long as the rubber bands weren't manufactured by Harris there shouldn't be a problem. Fuel economy would drastically improve and storage space requirements would decrease. Takes a lot less storage for a box of rubber bands than it does for 80 gallons of gas.
Ever sit in a plane while maintenance is working an issue? 10 minutes for the repair and one hour for the inspections and paperwork.
Also, this one fits the "You had to be there category". A 2.5 hour flight delay because nobody at the airport is qualified/certified to touch the wing of the plane to see if ice has formed during a moderate snow fall.
__________________
Dave
US Army (Ret)
2020 Entegra Accolade 37TS
2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk (Toad)
FMCA - F432054
|
|
|
07-29-2016, 05:30 PM
|
#22
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2015 Hurricane 34 J
State: Ohio
Posts: 680
THOR #1295
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Ace
Bob, you are comparing apples against oranges. Next you'll be comparing RVs against surgery equipment. Does not apply.
|
I DISAGREE!
We are comparing build quality, or lack of it! Which applies whether you are building RV's, aircraft, surgical equipment, or battleships!
__________________
Darren
2015 Thor Hurricane 34 J
Custom paint 2019 (Pro Custom Inc., Elkhart, IN)
2019 Honda Accord 2.0T Sport 6 speed manual
(THOR)
|
|
|
07-29-2016, 06:22 PM
|
#23
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Four Winds 22E
State: Washington
Posts: 304
THOR #4719
|
Personally I think Bob is researching becoming a multimillionare by producing flying RVs.
I am waiting for his crowd funding site to open, so I can get in on the ground floor. Im sure my investment will go up as fast as his "AirBob" RV.
This secret photo was taken at a airport his home.
Ken
Sorry Bob, I have never been able to keep a secret.
__________________
|
|
|
07-29-2016, 06:24 PM
|
#24
|
Axis/Vegas Enthusiast
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axis 24.4
State: Michigan
Posts: 9,837
THOR #1150
|
If he is, he is a little behind the times:
The Flying Winnebago | History | Air & Space Magazine
Note to Chance: This RV has no slideout
Note that in this instance Sikorsky built the airframe and Winnebago built the RV pieces (much like Ford supplies the chassis for our units).
|
|
|
07-29-2016, 06:28 PM
|
#25
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2015 Vegas 24.1
State: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,468
THOR #2601
|
It's kind of an apples/orange comparison.
1. Aircraft technicians require specific certifications and they vary depending on what systems/subsystems are involved. The certification requires annual training and upgrade requirements.
2. Aircraft require hundreds of process inspections. Many if these are in process inspections that must be performed before the next assembly can occur.
3. Aircraft parts require specification compliance. Many of the parts and subassemblies require extensive documentation for forensic tracking.
4. Aircraft require rigid standardization. Every assembly has a specific drawing and can only be assembled in accordance with the certified specification.
5. Every assembly process has a prescribed procedure which allows no deviation. Everything is "by the book."
It would be nice if an RV manufacturer followed those procedures; however, the cost would be exponentially than what we pay today.
__________________
Ed & Bev Felker
Retired USAF Col and retired Nurse
Traveling with Lily & Bella ('Teddy Bear' breed)
2015 Vegas 24.1 (E-350)
|
|
|
07-29-2016, 06:38 PM
|
#26
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Four Winds 22E
State: Washington
Posts: 304
THOR #4719
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieGeek
If he is, he is a little behind the times:
The Flying Winnebago | History | Air & Space Magazine
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;]
Note that in this instance Sikorsky built the airframe and Winnebago built the RV pieces (much like Ford supplies the chassis for our units).
|
That's way outdated. You will note from the picture's large intake that Bob's RV is turbojet propelled. Also what does't show is that it is an adaptation of the Harrier jet, so you can drop right into or out of your favorite campsite.
Ken
__________________
|
|
|
07-29-2016, 06:45 PM
|
#27
|
Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
|
This thread immediately reminded me of a motorhome that was created by a plane designer over 50 years ago. While it doesn't address the "quality" issue directly, it does reveal insight into how those that design airplanes would likely go about designing a motorhome.
Keep in mind this was created over 50 years ago, so compare to motorhomes of the early 60s. The Ultravan was a small, low, wide, light, aero and fuel efficient Class A.
In general I think those with engineering/technical backgrounds would design motorhomes with much greater emphasis on efficiency, reliability, ease of maintenance and repairs, etc... In other words very practical but not necessarily what most prospective buyers will be drawn to in the showroom. Manufacturers, on the other hand, build what we are willing to buy.
In my opinion, and as also stated by others above, cost and quality can't be treated as independent variables. It cost more to build things better or right. It may not be apparent on the surface, but the cost is reflected in there somewhere.
Someone very close to me studied aviation and is a commercial pilot. He told me that even in commercial aviation they place a value on human life in order to justify the added cost of equipment. It is certainly not a case of building planes as safe as absolutely possible. It's about economics. An example one of his professors gave was that airplanes could be built with parachutes, which could save some lives, but it's not economical because accidents are so rare. The cost per life saved would be too high. Those funds spent by society in other ways would save more lives by comparison.
Motorhomes could be built better but it would add cost. Or given a budget we could trade content for improved build quality.
__________________
|
|
|
07-29-2016, 07:00 PM
|
#28
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Four Winds 22E
State: Washington
Posts: 304
THOR #4719
|
Airstreams (another Thor product) are built like airplanes. However Q/C is about the same.
Ken
__________________
|
|
|
07-29-2016, 07:04 PM
|
#29
|
Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieGeek
....cut....
Note to Chance: This RV has no slideout
....cut....
|
Very funny!
Can you imagine an airplane with slide-outs so when they overbooked they could create extra space?
It's either that or stretch the plane to get the extra space. One idea seems so much simpler to me.
__________________
|
|
|
07-29-2016, 07:32 PM
|
#30
|
Axis/Vegas Enthusiast
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axis 24.4
State: Michigan
Posts: 9,837
THOR #1150
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance
An example one of his professors gave was that airplanes could be built with parachutes
|
Note that general aviation now has "ballistic recovery systems" installed: They shoot out parachutes.
Most notable general aviation aircraft that has this is the Cirrus SR22: Cirrus Aircraft | Airframe Parachute
|
|
|
07-29-2016, 07:59 PM
|
#31
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 29.3 (2016)
State: Montana
Posts: 511
THOR #4032
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance
Very funny!
Can you imagine an airplane with slide-outs so when they overbooked they could create extra space?
It's either that or stretch the plane to get the extra space. One idea seems so much simpler to me.
|
Lets hope some executive at one of the major airlines doesn't get any ideas on putting slide-outs on jets. They may try it. I heard once they were going to remove seats and replace them with slant boards so they could sardine more passengers in per flight. :
__________________
|
|
|
07-29-2016, 08:04 PM
|
#32
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 29.3 (2016)
State: Montana
Posts: 511
THOR #4032
|
__________________
|
|
|
07-29-2016, 08:09 PM
|
#33
|
Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieGeek
Note that general aviation now has "ballistic recovery systems" installed: They shoot out parachutes.
Most notable general aviation aircraft that has this is the Cirrus SR22: Cirrus Aircraft | Airframe Parachute
|
Yep, I'm familiar with them. They've saved many lives already. Risk in general aviation is much higher per passenger mile so it's easier to justify the cost. Plus when it's the owner paying, they don't need to justify it at all.
The bottom line is that having a wing fall off a plane is very different than having a slideout get stuck at a campground. Both could be due to poor quality, but consequences are not even close. In a way it makes sense to me that we collectively prefer to buy cheaper RVs of questionable quality.
__________________
|
|
|
07-29-2016, 08:16 PM
|
#34
|
Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Montgomery
Lets hope some executive at one of the major airlines doesn't get any ideas on putting slide-outs on jets. They may try it. I heard once they were going to remove seats and replace them with slant boards so they could sardine more passengers in per flight. :
|
I recall reading about that study. I think it was meant for very short commuter flights where standing was compared to standing on a bus or train. A big problem if I recall correctly was not being able to evacuate extra passengers in allowed time in case of emergency.
__________________
|
|
|
07-29-2016, 08:22 PM
|
#35
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 29.3 (2016)
State: Montana
Posts: 511
THOR #4032
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance
Yep, I'm familiar with them. They've saved many lives already. Risk in general aviation is much higher per passenger mile so it's easier to justify the cost. Plus when it's the owner paying, they don't need to justify it at all.
The bottom line is that having a wing fall off a plane is very different than having a slideout get stuck at a campground. Both could be due to poor quality, but consequences are not even close. In a way it makes sense to me that we collectively prefer to buy cheaper RVs of questionable quality.
|
I can't remember hearing of a private plane having the wing fall off under normal flight conditions..maybe it has, but I have not heard of it.
Funny you mentioning slides. My slide on my new Ace would not retract today. First I called Bretz RV in Billings MT but that was no real help.
I called Thor and we spent close to an hour trouble shooting etc. and there is a control box in the second bay that controls the slide. There is a reset button that you push six times in a row (it lights each time) and hold on the seventh push until the light blink rapidly off and on and then go inside and the slide comes in (your hope). We resynced the slide but again it would only come in a few inches and stop (sounds like the front motor stops first) and again we had to reset it.
Maybe my dealer will get me in in a week or two...maybe and they can fix all the things wrong at one setting (most minor) but the slide thing could leave me a long ways from home... Bottom line is Thor took care of me. The weak link is dealer service.
__________________
|
|
|
07-29-2016, 08:54 PM
|
#36
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2015 Vegas 24.1
State: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,468
THOR #2601
|
I was an AF acft maint sq commander twice and was the Logistics Group Commander at Barksdale AFB La. It is not uncommon to find wing root cracks, landing gear cracks, or other defects. But those are usually found during extensive x-ray inspections that are performed at scheduled I tervals.
My troops would perform a Phase inspection every 200 flying hours on every B-52. They in essence completely tore the acft apart. We inspected engine mounts with dye penetrant and UV light (as well as x-ray). All the control surfaces, control surface rigging, and flight controls received extensive inspection. Same for landing gear. It was a three shift operation performed over 10 - 14 days. Also included extensive corrosion inspections. It involved 30 - 40 people per shift and we would perform hundreds of supervisory inspections.
__________________
Ed & Bev Felker
Retired USAF Col and retired Nurse
Traveling with Lily & Bella ('Teddy Bear' breed)
2015 Vegas 24.1 (E-350)
|
|
|
07-29-2016, 08:59 PM
|
#37
|
Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Windsport 34F
State: Louisiana
Posts: 97
THOR #2073
|
This is comparing apples to oranges.
But, I will say that If ANY RV manufacturer built a plane, I would not step foot on it.
They all are terrible with QC...Thor, Winnebago, Tiffin.
But lets not forget its also the selling dealers responsibility to have the coach ready for PDI.
On my current coach, My salesperson and service manager did an outstanding job of assisting getting the "BUGS" worked out. Night and day difference compared to my two previous coaches.
__________________
The Guidrys
2015 Windsport 34F
2014 Honda CRV toad
Montz, Louisiana
|
|
|
07-29-2016, 09:09 PM
|
#38
|
Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Montgomery
I can't remember hearing of a private plane having the wing fall off under normal flight conditions..maybe it has, but I have not heard of it.
Funny you mentioning slides. My slide on my new Ace would not retract today. First I called Bretz RV in Billings MT but that was no real help.
I called Thor and we spent close to an hour trouble shooting etc. and there is a control box in the second bay that controls the slide. There is a reset button that you push six times in a row (it lights each time) and hold on the seventh push until the light blink rapidly off and on and then go inside and the slide comes in (your hope). We resynced the slide but again it would only come in a few inches and stop (sounds like the front motor stops first) and again we had to reset it.
Maybe my dealer will get me in in a week or two...maybe and they can fix all the things wrong at one setting (most minor) but the slide thing could leave me a long ways from home... Bottom line is Thor took care of me. The weak link is dealer service.
|
I don't like slides for many reasons that go well beyond lack of reliability, but what I find hard to relate to is the following they have considering they are the #1 reported problem with RVs year after year.
I know they provide added room and resale value, but the negatives are so many that it surprises me that more buyers don't choose to pass on them. I get wanting benefits of slides, but have a harder time with why owners put up with all the problems.
__________________
|
|
|
07-30-2016, 12:27 AM
|
#39
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Four Winds 22E
State: Washington
Posts: 304
THOR #4719
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance
I don't like slides for many reasons that go well beyond lack of reliability, but what I find hard to relate to is the following they have considering they are the #1 reported problem with RVs year after year.
I know they provide added room and resale value, but the negatives are so many that it surprises me that more buyers don't choose to pass on them. I get wanting benefits of slides, but have a harder time with why owners put up with all the problems.
|
Sometimes people don't thoroughly research them. Some others think, "They wouldn't keep selling them if they were unreliable". Probably there are a bunch who have owned them with no problems.
It is my personal opinion the the added complexity overrides the benefits even with no problems. In our motor home we would have gained anther 18" of floor width in between sink and dinette. We don't need it.
I gave up a long time ago trying to figure out why people who have different priorities than I do are always wrong.
Ken
__________________
|
|
|
07-30-2016, 12:32 AM
|
#40
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 29.3 (2016)
State: Montana
Posts: 511
THOR #4032
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance
I don't like slides for many reasons that go well beyond lack of reliability, but what I find hard to relate to is the following they have considering they are the #1 reported problem with RVs year after year.
I know they provide added room and resale value, but the negatives are so many that it surprises me that more buyers don't choose to pass on them. I get wanting benefits of slides, but have a harder time with why owners put up with all the problems.
|
Are there any manufactures out there that make Class A motorhomes without slides? I agree if you get a 30-35 foot coach and arrange the inside correctly you don't need slides but I am not aware of any major manufacturers that make them now.
__________________
|
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|