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Old 04-29-2016, 05:55 PM   #1
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Model: Axis 25.1
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Looking at Thor Axis 25.1 - Few Questions

We are looking at purchasing our first RV. We rented a class C sunseeker and we liked it, however we found that it was a bit too long (almost 33 ft), and the ride was a bit rough. We recently read about the thor 25.1 and think that it fits most of our needs. We are looking at a used 2015 25.1 that has approx 17k miles on it.

1. Are there any major services that are due around this time? Just trying to estimate costs going forward.

2. Is the ride on the Thor Axis better than a class c?

3. Any reason why we should look at a newer 2016 model instead of the 2015?

4. Anything else we should try to find out about the unit? Is there a site that provides used RV valuations? Also is there a "carfax" for rvs?
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Old 04-29-2016, 06:00 PM   #2
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1. I'd get both the engine and the generator's oil changed--or have the dealer get it done as a condition of the sale.

2. Its the same as a Class-C as its the same E-Series chassis underneath

3. Only if you want a brand spanking new unit with all its problems; presumably the previous owner fixed everything (or got so disgusted with it they dumped it). Note that the Axis/Vegas lines have seen a bit better quality than your average Thor unit..not sure why but that is what appears by all the posts on this forum.

4. I don't know.

Want to see what a 25.1 can do, check out 48 in 366 they are taking a 25.1 to every National Park in the lower 48 all through this year (and visiting many many State Parks in between). Lots and lots of miles going on that unit...
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Old 04-29-2016, 06:21 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by JamieGeek View Post
1. I'd get both the engine and the generator's oil changed--or have the dealer get it done as a condition of the sale.

2. Its the same as a Class-C as its the same E-Series chassis underneath

3. Only if you want a brand spanking new unit with all its problems; presumably the previous owner fixed everything (or got so disgusted with it they dumped it). Note that the Axis/Vegas lines have seen a bit better quality than your average Thor unit..not sure why but that is what appears by all the posts on this forum.

4. I don't know.

Want to see what a 25.1 can do, check out 48 in 366 they are taking a 25.1 to every National Park in the lower 48 all through this year (and visiting many many State Parks in between). Lots and lots of miles going on that unit...

Great, I appreciate your advice. I was thinking that with a used one that has this many miles, perhaps they took care of a lot of the issues that I have seen being reported by people who purchase new.. Again I could be totally wrong but I am also saving almost $30,000 by buying a used one so I have to look at that as well.

One thing that turned us off about the class c with the overhang bed on top of the cab was that it seemed to be affected by wind quite a bit. If we would pass a semi I had to keep very tight control over the steering wheel. That was the main gripe with it. It was also pretty bumpy and noisy. We were thinking that hopefully this unit being a class A would help with those issues.
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Old 04-29-2016, 07:13 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by maximusdecimus View Post
Great, I appreciate your advice. I was thinking that with a used one that has this many miles, perhaps they took care of a lot of the issues that I have seen being reported by people who purchase new.. Again I could be totally wrong but I am also saving almost $30,000 by buying a used one so I have to look at that as well.

One thing that turned us off about the class c with the overhang bed on top of the cab was that it seemed to be affected by wind quite a bit. If we would pass a semi I had to keep very tight control over the steering wheel. That was the main gripe with it. It was also pretty bumpy and noisy. We were thinking that hopefully this unit being a class A would help with those issues.
I'm also looking but will share based on my research and experiences with Class Cs.

The unit you rented was quite large for a standard Class C (to exclude Super Cs), and in my experience the longer they are the more likely they are affected by wind. Longer Class Cs tend to have a long rear overhang which adversely affects handling in crosswinds. I personally doubt that Class A versus C in itself makes much difference in handling due to wind, as proven by the numerous owners of Axis and Vegas who have "upgraded" their motorhomes to eliminate some of the issues you described. I do think that a Class C may be less aerodynamic and hence may get slightly less MPG under similar conditions.

Regarding 2015 vs 2016, if the 2016 was built on a 2016 Model Year Ford chassis, it will have a 6-speed automatic transmission that should drive a little better than the previous 5-speed. Although the older 5-speed is proven and very capable.

Regarding price, are you saving $30,000 versus suggested retail or versus what you could buy a similar new motorhome?

There is about 25 to 30 percent minimum price to be discounted, so if you are looking at a $100,000 Axis, the actual price for a new one may be in the $70~75k range. If you are saving $30k below that with a slightly used motorhome, that seems like a great deal to me.
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Old 04-29-2016, 07:25 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Chance View Post
I'm also looking but will share based on my research and experiences with Class Cs.

The unit you rented was quite large for a standard Class C (to exclude Super Cs), and in my experience the longer they are the more likely they are affected by wind. Longer Class Cs tend to have a long rear overhang which adversely affects handling in crosswinds. I personally doubt that Class A versus C in itself makes much difference in handling due to wind, as proven by the numerous owners of Axis and Vegas who have "upgraded" their motorhomes to eliminate some of the issues you described. I do think that a Class C may be less aerodynamic and hence may get slightly less MPG under similar conditions.

Regarding 2015 vs 2016, if the 2016 was built on a 2016 Model Year Ford chassis, it will have a 6-speed automatic transmission that should drive a little better than the previous 5-speed. Although the older 5-speed is proven and very capable.

Regarding price, are you saving $30,000 versus suggested retail or versus what you could buy a similar new motorhome?

There is about 25 to 30 percent minimum price to be discounted, so if you are looking at a $100,000 Axis, the actual price for a new one may be in the $70~75k range. If you are saving $30k below that with a slightly used motorhome, that seems like a great deal to me.
So they are asking in the mid $50k range for a used 2015 with 17k miles. Someone traded it in, we haven't seen it in person by I had my brother who lives there go check it out and he said it looks good. I was looking online and saw.brand new axis going for around $80k, so I was thinking about negotiating down to $50k or so.

Thanks for clarifying. We are going to test drive the same model this weekend so hopefully it will answer the questions about the ride handling. I am wondering what upgrades did people do to theirs to improve the wind/handling?
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Old 04-29-2016, 07:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximusdecimus
Thanks for clarifying. We are going to test drive the same model this weekend so hopefully it will answer the questions about the ride handling. I am wondering what upgrades did people do to theirs to improve the wind/handling?
Keep in mind that if you test drive a brand new unit on the lot it probably won't be aligned and may pull or otherwise behave strangely. Ask the dealer if the unit has had an alignment--it makes a bit difference in how it handles.

Other modes people have put on: steering stabilizers, heavy duty sway bars, etc.

All we've done with our 24.1 is to get an alignment. That did make a big difference how it handles. In the end it is just a big van and will handle like one LOL.

I would think you could pick up a new 25.1 for mid to low $70s.
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Old 04-29-2016, 08:24 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximusdecimus View Post
So they are asking in the mid $50k range for a used 2015 with 17k miles. Someone traded it in, we haven't seen it in person by I had my brother who lives there go check it out and he said it looks good. I was looking online and saw.brand new axis going for around $80k, so I was thinking about negotiating down to $50k or so.

Thanks for clarifying. We are going to test drive the same model this weekend so hopefully it will answer the questions about the ride handling. I am wondering what upgrades did people do to theirs to improve the wind/handling?
For reference, I bought a new 2016 Axis at the Tampa RV show in February for $69.9K and they gave me almost $52K for my 2014 Vegas with 25k miles on it. Most of the used 2014 and 2015 Axis/Vegas on the internet were asking $59.9K at that time. With 17K miles on the model you are looking at, you should not have many scheduled maintenance issues. However, whether it it's worth it or not depends a lot on what, if any, improvements the original ower made and how they treated it and maintained it. If you can get it for $50K you are saving about $20K on a new 2017 unit.

As to the question of buying a used rather than new because someone has already worked out the bugs? That works if the original owner knew what he was doing and spent the time and/or money to fix anything that was wrong and made improvements that are worthwhile to you. I have had it work both ways. I spent more time removing and fixing things that one owner installed and in another case, I found that the previous owner was more anal than I.

As far as the 2015 vs. 2016/17 models, I have a 24.1 and the things that sweetened the deal for me with the 2016, were the new transmission (significant improvement) and the new pocket doors in the bathroom, along with the new light wood inside.

Good luck!
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Old 04-29-2016, 09:22 PM   #8
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We bought our '16 Axis 24.1 after driving the Winnebago View on the Mercedes Sprinter chassis Class C. Liked the diesel mileage but didn't like the drive, the ride or the price compared to our Axis which after it was aligned, drives quite nicely along with the much cheaper price tag.
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Old 04-29-2016, 10:57 PM   #9
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I also have a 2015 Vegas 24.1. As has been noted the main difference with the 2015 and a new one will be the 6-speed transmission vs 5-speed, reconfigured bathroom door, smaller and less complex front windshield, and some color/trim changes.

The 6-speed would mean a smoother shifting transmission without the high revving that the 5-speed had. The new windshield, although smaller than the 2015, does not have the complex compound curves of the 2015 windshield that was prone to stress cracking (mine was replaced under warranty for stress cracks). The 2016 and 2017 Vegas/Axis seems to have a higher level of QC and fit and finish. I think Thor learned a lot from the feedback many of us provided to them. The "dog box" and A-pillars seem to be more insulated thereby making for a quieter ride.

As Chance noted getting a 2015 for $50K is a good deal. To get a new one would cost you about an additional $20K -- you need to ask is the small list of upgrades worth that amount of money.

There is also another factor to consider. Owning one of these is an adventure in self-learning. All of us had the book of hard knocks out learning how something worked (like what charges what and under what conditions), how is the waste plumbing configured, what combination of fuses, connections, and circuit breakers provides power, etc. In addition, almost every owner has found defects in construction and installation and probably went back to their dealer for warranty work the first year of ownership. In addition, we have all tightened, adjusted, repositioned, etc. numerous things in our coaches. With a 2015 that has 17000 miles -- hopefully the previous owner has already taken care of the annoying stuff that requires constant tweaking and fiddling.

I compiled an Owners' Manual specific to the 2015 Axis/Vegas. I wrote it as a self-teaching document to understand how things work on the RV. I have shared it with more than 280 other owners, and the feedback has been very positive. The manual also contains checklists for setting up, tearing down, winterizing, equipping, pre-season getting ready, and a comprehensive Pre-Delivery Inspection checklist to use at the dealership before taking ownership. Here is a link to the manual:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page...HbjprCUauDwH4g

Good luck, and let us know how you make out.
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Old 04-30-2016, 02:22 AM   #10
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Great questions and all great responses, so far. I agree with almost all comments.

I would caution that you not assume that a given previous owner has addressed all issues before trading an RV away. Some folks just live with problems and assume it's normal or can't be fixed.

Check on the price of a 2017, and a 2016, from as many dealers as you can, both Axis and Vegas. Ask for bottom line, out the door price, to compare apples to apples. Unless they can prove alignment, the conventional wisdom suggests you have that included in the purchase.

Consider the different models available, too. It will cost you if you buy one and then soon discover that you want to trade for a more suited one. Your homework here will make a big difference.
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Old 05-01-2016, 01:28 AM   #11
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Thanks everyone for the great advice. We went to a local dealer today and we looked at most of the floor plans. We still like the 25.1 but the dealer told us that it was discontinued because it was not selling. I am a bit worried about that because if we decide to sell in 4/5 years would that make it more difficult?

We really like the 25.1 with the rear Lounge because we have young kids and it would be nice to have the lounge space during the day and the ability to conver to a bed at night. The salesperson said that they think the reason the 25.1 didn't sell well was because the clientele who purchases these RVs are a bit older and they don't like having to make a bed, and they don't like having to go over someone if they need to get out of bed.
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Old 05-01-2016, 01:37 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximusdecimus
Thanks everyone for the great advice. We went to a local dealer today and we looked at most of the floor plans. We still like the 25.1 but the dealer told us that it was discontinued because it was not selling. I am a bit worried about that because if we decide to sell in 4/5 years would that make it more difficult?

We really like the 25.1 with the rear Lounge because we have young kids and it would be nice to have the lounge space during the day and the ability to conver to a bed at night. The salesperson said that they think the reason the 25.1 didn't sell well was because the clientele who purchases these RVs are a bit older and they don't like having to make a bed, and they don't like having to go over someone if they need to get out of bed.
Interesting: The 25.1 still shows up on both the Axis and Vegas websites. Typically Thor removes them when they are discontinued..perhaps its only a matter of time.

Conversely to your idea about them being hard to sell because they are discontinued; it is also possible that there is a set of people who really like that floorplan and since they would be discontinued would sell quickly because it actually was popular. I usually don't worry about the resale value of any RV I purchase because they depreciate so much..it really is not an investment! LOL

Funny that the sales person said older clientele are the people purchasing Axis/Vega units when Thor markets them to younger people (RUV for using in an "active lifestyle"--like us taking ours to a baseball tournament). Just take a look at this.
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Old 05-01-2016, 02:58 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by JamieGeek View Post
Interesting: The 25.1 still shows up on both the Axis and Vegas websites. Typically Thor removes them when they are discontinued..perhaps its only a matter of time.

Conversely to your idea about them being hard to sell because they are discontinued; it is also possible that there is a set of people who really like that floorplan and since they would be discontinued would sell quickly because it actually was popular. I usually don't worry about the resale value of any RV I purchase because they depreciate so much..it really is not an investment! LOL

Funny that the sales person said older clientele are the people purchasing Axis/Vega units when Thor markets them to younger people (RUV for using in an "active lifestyle"--like us taking ours to a baseball tournament). Just take a look at this
.
.

When I checked the Vegas website yesterday, the 2016 models are still showing. This happened last year, and we might have considered ordering a 25.3, had we known about it. (Still would have preferred the 25.2.)

I wouldn't worry about resale. There are many brands, not just models, that are no longer around, yet people still buy those used units. (Alpha, Country Coach, National, Dolphin, etc.)

My opinion is that Thor, like most RV companies, rely mostly on their dealers for marketing. I agree that the 24.1 is ideally suited for tailgating, and at a reasonable price point for many.
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Old 05-01-2016, 04:58 AM   #14
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Feeling very lucky that we got a 24.2 the year they were made. We were so sure of the floor plan even without seeing one in person that we did a factory order. No regrets and it's working perfect for our current travel style.

I've only seen a few 25.1 like floor plans over the years. I think it was Leisure Unity that came out with a similar layout.
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Old 05-01-2016, 05:37 AM   #15
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After renting a 24 ft class C Sunseeker for a 2 week trip we bought a 2016 25.1 Axis. We like the Axis way better than the class C. It drives better, gets better gas mileage, has better better views from front cab, has more usable space from front cab, and the back area has proven to be useful in many ways. We did not buy a 2015 Vegas 25.1 because the back area came with a funky blow up mattress. Ours folds into a bed using the existing cushions. We put a 4 inch foam pad on top and it is very comfortable. We travel with as any as 4 kids sometimes. The 2016 overhead front bunk also comes with a mattress pad rather than a air mattress for the 2015. Feel free to contact me - be glad to discuss in more detail - newmanrx@yahoo.com
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Old 05-01-2016, 11:56 AM   #16
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Thor Rep

A few months back someone had posted the name of a Thor Rep who was very helpful. If anyone has it can you please reply/repost


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Old 05-04-2016, 08:01 AM   #17
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So we have put the deposit down on the rig and will be picking up in about 10 days. In the meantime I am trying to schedule an inspector to go out to look at it. Is there anything in particular we should have him look at on this model? We are sticking with the 25.1 - even though it is being discontinued I think that it is a great layout and floorplan for us. We are very excited to own our first RV and cannot wait to take trips in it.

Also as a side note I have to say that the community here has been one of the most helpful that I have ever dealt with online. Your guidance and answers have all been wonderful and I greatly appreciate each and every one of you helping me out.
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Old 05-04-2016, 12:28 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximusdecimus
So we have put the deposit down on the rig and will be picking up in about 10 days. In the meantime I am trying to schedule an inspector to go out to look at it. Is there anything in particular we should have him look at on this model? We are sticking with the 25.1 - even though it is being discontinued I think that it is a great layout and floorplan for us. We are very excited to own our first RV and cannot wait to take trips in it.

Also as a side note I have to say that the community here has been one of the most helpful that I have ever dealt with online. Your guidance and answers have all been wonderful and I greatly appreciate each and every one of you helping me out.
Download Ed's manual (https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page...HbjprCUauDwH4g) it has a decent pre-delivery inspection checklist in it.
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Old 05-04-2016, 03:44 PM   #19
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The only thing I would suggest is to get an independent RV shop to do an inspection of the coach. Spending a couple hundred up front might save you from a lot of grief down the road. Has the coach been in an accident? Are there signs of water leaks inside the walls or floors?

Also, go to your local Camping World (or Amazon) and buy "Buying a Used Motorhome" by Bill Myers.

But you have already done the first step. Joining this forum and asking questions. Good Luck.
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Old 05-04-2016, 04:36 PM   #20
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I would check all the interior systems separately with battery power, shore power and generator. Make sure all the batteries are charging when the engine is on and when shore power/generator is on. Pull the dog house and make sure the shift cable is routed correctly. Use Ed's checklist and go over it with a fine tooth comb. It may save you heartache and money in the future. Good luck and congrats.
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