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Old 04-26-2017, 02:55 AM   #1
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New Challengers on the way to MHSRV

Saw 2 new Challengers on the interstate coming into Dallas today, heading to MHSRV. Both had Indiana plates and the plastic still on the fronts. It was 5:30pm, rush hour traffic and they were swaying pretty good in the high winds we had today. (Excuse my dirty windshield!)
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Old 04-26-2017, 03:09 AM   #2
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Guess the 18s are starting to roll! Woo Hoo!!!
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Old 04-26-2017, 04:09 AM   #3
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So much for following the essential checklist in the Ford F-53 owners manual, the very first item says,"Do not tow a trailer until you drive at least 1,000 miles". Clearly the dealer or delivery service doesn't care about what the owners manual is saying?

Could this void the warranty, particularly if you have some type of transmission problem down the road? Not sure I would buy a rig from that outfit!!
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Old 04-26-2017, 04:20 AM   #4
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A 3,000-pound car behind a 20,000-pound motorhome? I'd worry far more about 2018s not having a fix for sway problem.
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Old 04-26-2017, 04:46 AM   #5
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Btw just one had a toad. A guy was driving it, followed by a much braver woman than me driving the 2nd one. We're over 1000 miles from Elkhart so they'd probably say the toad was added when they got to DFW. 🙄
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Old 04-26-2017, 06:01 AM   #6
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Ford also makes reference in another section, (twice) in the Driving Hints section it says not to tow for the first 1,000 miles. So this dealership accepts a vehicle they know has been used to tow a 3,000 pound car over 1,000 miles!

It doesn't matter if it's a 30 pound car or 3,000 pound car, they obviously put that statement in there for some reason and more than once it's referenced.

If I were to purchase that rig as a new unit and it developed transmission problems down the road, would Ford, Thor or the dealership stand by the product and repair it? Probably not, my concern is for the poor unsuspecting buyer that gets this unit having been abused by the transporter or dealership!

Since they are knowingly violating the owners manual does that void the warranty from Ford and Thor? I know Ford has very rigid and specific warranty rules as does Thor. So who would assume the liability if something went wrong?

Oh that's right, the buyer would never know the rig was used to tow a 3000 pound car for its break in period.

I guess I'm sensitive to this having had a lemon coach and what I went through was no fun. The consumer enters a contract to purchase a new coach thinking they are getting something that's not been abused or misused and the dealership/delivery company pulls a stunt like this!!
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Old 04-26-2017, 11:53 AM   #7
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THOR #4486
plenty of issues to come

There will be so many other issues/repairs needed that you might not even notice an issue with the transmission.
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Old 04-26-2017, 12:16 PM   #8
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If you want to get technical the section under towing says do not tow a trailer until you drive your vehicle at least 1000 miles. So, based on that, anyone that tows a vehicle their first trip out is violating a provision of the owner's manual.
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Old 04-26-2017, 01:16 PM   #9
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Another thought along these lines: Other upfitters build the F-53 and E-Series into other kinds of trucks.

Do you think that bus you are riding in to the rental car area at the airport was properly broken in? How about the F-650 dump truck towing the backhoe? I'm sure those companies purchase the vehicles and immediately put them into service.

Those airport buses log millions of miles....
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Old 04-26-2017, 01:35 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by brianh442 View Post
Ford also makes reference in another section, (twice) in the Driving Hints section it says not to tow for the first 1,000 miles. So this dealership accepts a vehicle they know has been used to tow a 3,000 pound car over 1,000 miles!

It doesn't matter if it's a 30 pound car or 3,000 pound car, they obviously put that statement in there for some reason and more than once it's referenced.

If I were to purchase that rig as a new unit and it developed transmission problems down the road, would Ford, Thor or the dealership stand by the product and repair it? Probably not, my concern is for the poor unsuspecting buyer that gets this unit having been abused by the transporter or dealership!

Since they are knowingly violating the owners manual does that void the warranty from Ford and Thor? I know Ford has very rigid and specific warranty rules as does Thor. So who would assume the liability if something went wrong?

Oh that's right, the buyer would never know the rig was used to tow a 3000 pound car for its break in period.

I guess I'm sensitive to this having had a lemon coach and what I went through was no fun. The consumer enters a contract to purchase a new coach thinking they are getting something that's not been abused or misused and the dealership/delivery company pulls a stunt like this!!
Brian, I'm not dismissing your point, and certainly don't like people not to follow proper instructions on principle, but I've seen this a lot. New units come to large dealers west of Houston and often have a toad behind them. It's an easy way for driver to get back home, or back to factory to pick up another unit. In this case it could have been a husband/wife team sharing one toad. I'd bet it's very common.

My comments were based on real-world conditions, knowing that the driver's style can make more of a difference on the engine and transmission than the toad can. Accelerating gradually with the toad will place less stress on drivetrain than if the driver without the toad steps on it hard. Granted, it would be best not to tow and also drive gently. Still, towing a small car behind a huge motorhome isn't something I'd personally worry about, and I worry about a lot of things.


Even if the transmission went out (and it won't) it can be fixed or replaced, and most likely under warranty. The tendency to sway in crosswinds is the larger issue that should concern buyers in my opinion. And the argument that "they all sway" or "I'll fix it later with Safe-T-Plus and Sumo springs" doesn't work for me.
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Old 04-26-2017, 02:09 PM   #11
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Another note, I assumed they were going to MHSRV, but they were coming into DFW on I-30 and could have headed south to one of the Camping Worlds in the Houston & San Antonio areas too.
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Old 04-26-2017, 04:10 PM   #12
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Not having to worry about what a transport company did or didn't do to my new RV is one of the main reasons why I decided to buy from Total Value RV in Elkhart, IN. When I picked my coach up, it had 64 miles on it. I drove back to Texas without towing anything, which gave me the opportunity to learn all the creaks ans squeaks. I didn't have to worry about anyone eating my porridge or sleeping in my bed. I also didn't have to worry about what was broken and covered up before I picked it up. Another issue is how long the vehicles sits on the lot without being maintained and every potential buyer walking through and breaking things.
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Old 04-26-2017, 04:43 PM   #13
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I guess I see your point where commercial owner/operators disregard the manufacturers guidance, they generally have deeper pockets not to mention fleet plans with a dealer.

However, the little guy like me or some other unsuspecting sap purchases this unit not knowing it was abused in this fashion is in for a rude awakening. Thor and Ford employ a lot of attorneys and they have deep pockets to fend off claims.

I suspect there is something to this if Ford makes mention of it at least twice, there may be other references to it as well. I've also noticed it written in other new vehicle manuals. If it were not a big deal, why would Ford legal buy off on that statement being in its owners manual in multiple sections?? Why does Thor make reference to it in the chassis section of my owners manual, "Make sure to follow the recommendations as outlined in the chassis owner's manual to ensure proper future performance and economy"

That too me is worrisome, "to ensure proper future performance and economy". If a problem were to arise and you take that rig to a Ford dealer, they look at it and say it was damaged due to improper towing, you would have no way of proving it was used to tow a 3,000 pound car for its first 1,000 miles, unless you have proof like a photo or an affidavit or declaration from the driver stating such, then you are out of luck!!

I think; if they are going to tow vehicles under these conditions there should be some notice given to the potential buyer, would they extend the warranty to 5 years/50,000 miles? Ford certainly would not, but would Thor? I doubt it!

Like I said, I think it's only fair the potential buyer be made aware of this and let them decide if they want to purchase that unit or pass and look for one that was not used in this fashion. I'm sure there are those on this board that would have no heartburn with it, but there are those of us that want nothing to do with it.

As a consumer, my reasonable assumption is that Thor and its authorized agents, (delivery driver or dealer) are following its own written recommendations prior to me taking delivery of a new coach. Heck, Thor may not even be aware this is going on! The driver could pull out off their property drive a mile down the road and hook up the car!

At any rate, if the end user/consumer was not made aware it was used contrary to manufacturer recommendations during delivery, then that's a problem!!
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Old 04-26-2017, 04:48 PM   #14
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If anyone has ever checked into being a RV transport driver, or talked to someone that makes their living transporting RVs, most are paid by one-way miles. So if you purchase your RV several hundred miles from northern Indiana then some transport driver is going to move it as quickly as possible to the dealer's lot. If that new RV is a MH then there is a good chance it could have a toad plus that transport driver will probably not be reading any owners manual to see how to break in the tranny and engine.

When the op said "were swaying pretty good in the high winds we had today", that is about what I would expect to see from a 2018 Challenger going down the road. The front end hasn't been aligned, there is probably 75 to 85 psi in those new tires, it is weighing about 2,000 pounds less than it will when outfitted for camping, and obviously no major improvements have been made to the suspension for 2018. I suppose Thor could churn out Challengers with huge sway bars, air suspension, and premium steering assists as standard equipment, but then the price would jump another $10,000 or more also. For those of us that actually own a Challenger and travel in one, instead of just read about them and make comments, I'm okay with making my own modifications along with their price point.
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Old 04-26-2017, 07:03 PM   #15
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This has been an interesting topic to follow.

Note that all RVs (except some really small ones) are driven to the selling dealer.

Another thing not mentioned here is that Ford's break in instructions also include text advising against the use of cruise control for the duration of the break in period. This means it is likely that all motorhomes are delivered contrary to Ford's recommendations (I know if I was shuttling RVs to and fro all the time I'd use CC as much as possible).
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Old 04-26-2017, 10:07 PM   #16
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Exclamation

when it comes to how ANY motorhome is delivered to the dealer from the factory, how do you EXPECT them to be delivered? ...the baby stork?


as one who delivers factory motorhomes to dealers, I can tell you that they are ready to be driven when they are handed off to the driver. The FACTORY is responsible for a test drive, and to make sure everything is corrrect and operational, though if we're discussing the CHASSIS, then that is a FORD issue. Ford may give guidance to new owners of vehicles, like your car which was TRAILERED to a dealer, but a raw RV chassis is a different story. It is driven from the end of the factory line at Ford to a yard. It is then loaded onto a trailer and delivered to the factory yard that builds the 'house' part of the RV. It is then driven as a raw chassis into the factory, and then test driven by the factory, and parked in a factory yard. It is then picked up by the delivery company, and driven to THEIR yard. It is then picked up by a driver and driven to the dealer.

Does anyone NOT expect the driver to have a way to get back home?
(I'm referring to the comments about a new RV being delivered, with a toad attached)

Ford, and any other manufacturer of vehicles, is giving 'break in' time guidance to the general public. They realize that these vehicles will have to be DRIVEN to the dealer, not magically appear there, and are already designed to handle a 3,500lb toad, even during the 'first 1,000 miles'...

matter of fact, I know of very few new motorhome buyers, who have an existing toad, that are going to 'drive' the RV 1,000 miles BEFORE they attach their toad, even IF the motorhome was delivered with 0 miles!

Honestly, I think that the driving of a motorhome to the dealer is a terrific shake down trip and way for the dealer to have information about any existing chassis issues when it arrives.
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Old 04-26-2017, 10:55 PM   #17
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when it comes to how ANY motorhome is delivered to the dealer from the factory, how do you EXPECT them to be delivered? ...the baby stork?


as one who delivers factory motorhomes to dealers, I can tell you that they are ready to be driven when they are handed off to the driver. The FACTORY is responsible for a test drive, and to make sure everything is corrrect and operational, though if we're discussing the CHASSIS, then that is a FORD issue. Ford may give guidance to new owners of vehicles, like your car which was TRAILERED to a dealer, but a raw RV chassis is a different story. It is driven from the end of the factory line at Ford to a yard. It is then loaded onto a trailer and delivered to the factory yard that builds the 'house' part of the RV. It is then driven as a raw chassis into the factory, and then test driven by the factory, and parked in a factory yard. It is then picked up by the delivery company, and driven to THEIR yard. It is then picked up by a driver and driven to the dealer.

Does anyone NOT expect the driver to have a way to get back home?
(I'm referring to the comments about a new RV being delivered, with a toad attached)

Ford, and any other manufacturer of vehicles, is giving 'break in' time guidance to the general public. They realize that these vehicles will have to be DRIVEN to the dealer, not magically appear there, and are already designed to handle a 3,500lb toad, even during the 'first 1,000 miles'...

matter of fact, I know of very few new motorhome buyers, who have an existing toad, that are going to 'drive' the RV 1,000 miles BEFORE they attach their toad, even IF the motorhome was delivered with 0 miles!

Honestly, I think that the driving of a motorhome to the dealer is a terrific shake down trip and way for the dealer to have information about any existing chassis issues when it arrives.
Since you drive many different ones, care to mention which drive better than others, which you find easier to drive? And I don't mean comparing diesel pusher to small Class C, although that too would be interesting to read. Mostly I'm interested in your general observations if you have any, like how wind affects them, gas mileage, etc...
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Old 05-06-2017, 10:35 AM   #18
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Guess the 18s are starting to roll! Woo Hoo!!!
Yo Dave, how ya doing buddy?
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Old 05-06-2017, 10:47 AM   #19
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Btw just one had a toad. A guy was driving it, followed by a much braver woman than me driving the 2nd one. We're over 1000 miles from Elkhart so they'd probably say the toad was added when they got to DFW. 🙄
TexAxis, you hit the nail on the head. When I picked up my Windsport from MHSRV I met a driver from Indiana and he told me that MHSRV makes arrangements in Dallas to have the toad hitched to the new RVs so that the drivers can get home once they deliver the new RVs to MHSRV. That dealership is very sensitive to the rules and I applaud them for that, not to mention their fantastic customer service.
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Old 05-06-2017, 02:14 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Since you drive many different ones, care to mention which drive better than others, which you find easier to drive? And I don't mean comparing diesel pusher to small Class C, although that too would be interesting to read. Mostly I'm interested in your general observations if you have any, like how wind affects them, gas mileage, etc...
if the Chassis is the same, no BRAND is going to be radically different, better, or worse than any other brand - the biggest difference is overall weight to length(wheelbase) ratio and floorplan/layout.
The weight to length(wheelbase) ratio - heavier units can handle more length without sacrificing being 'pushed around' by wind and other traffic, and a quick look at how much 'overhang' the unit has on the rear might be an indicator that driving it may take a little more effort.
The floorplan/layout of the unit helps determines where the weight is within the coach, and therefore the driving characteristics since more weight on the front left will drive differently than more weight on the right rear. Some have the kitchen and fridge all on the same side.

I would choose a motorhome, though, based on your desired floorplan and layout as this is what you will be 'enjoying' the most as part of the overall purchase - no matter who's name is badged on the vehicle. You actually 'drive' the vehicle a lot less than you 'enjoy' the vehicle once parked.
Some brands 'may' have a slightly better build, but there is really little difference from what I've seen.
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