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Old 08-19-2015, 03:42 PM   #1
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New experience with Vegas 25.2 = Inquiries

Hi

We have rented this RV for 1 week to see if we would like it, and we did but I have a few questions or concerns that I would like to address. This was my first experience so many questions.


We drove 1245 Mi. in all kinds of condition and we averaged 9.6 MPG US. This mileage was done in the province of Quebec, Canada Eastern section by the Atlantic ocean.

1) Transmission = not towing anything, we started the trip putting it tow/haul, going down a hill like Randy mentioned it does the job, but the engine rpm could go up to 3500 even after the hill, with a high rpm does it affect the fuel economy.
Then we put it back to Off, and the RPM was quite lower, just put it On when sharp hills.
In Ford's manual they say that for fuel economy it is better to have it Off when not towing or having a heavy load.
In my mind high rpm = fuel
Pls let me know what are your impression on this.
issue.
2) Windshield = on this RV there was a major crack on the right side, my concern if I purchase one what will be the warranty on this or cost if no warranty.

3) Water pump = do you need to put it at off when you are connected to the water service, or put at off when not using.
Is there a safety on the pump that turns it off if the fresh water tank would go empty.
Same with hot water tank.

4) City water = on the entry should we put a 40psi regulator or is there one already installed.

5) Holding tanks = I emptied the black and indicator was at 1/3, is there a trick to resolve this reading error or faulty sensor. What goes exactly in the Grey, is it only the kitchen sink ???

The dealer told me that when I hook up to the sewing system, to leave the grey trap open and leave the black close. Open the black trap only when necessary or prior to unhooking, any comments on this ??

Thanks in advance.

Regards

Michel
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Old 08-19-2015, 04:42 PM   #2
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Stress cracks should be covered by warranty, as was mine. Also, look into getting windshield coverage on your insurance, it's well worth it. The water pump should be off when connected to water service, I tend to turn it off when I'm going to be out of the RV. I use a regulator, they're cheap and worth the peace of mind. There's a great video on YouTube from RV Geeks about the whole Black and Grey tanks.
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Old 08-19-2015, 04:47 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by michbout View Post
Hi

We have rented this RV for 1 week to see if we would like it, and we did but I have a few questions or concerns that I would like to address. This was my first experience so many questions.


We drove 1245 Mi. in all kinds of condition and we averaged 9.6 MPG US. This mileage was done in the province of Quebec, Canada Eastern section by the Atlantic ocean.

1) Transmission = not towing anything, we started the trip putting it tow/haul, going down a hill like Randy mentioned it does the job, but the engine rpm could go up to 3500 even after the hill, with a high rpm does it affect the fuel economy.
Then we put it back to Off, and the RPM was quite lower, just put it On when sharp hills.
In Ford's manual they say that for fuel economy it is better to have it Off when not towing or having a heavy load.
In my mind high rpm = fuel
Pls let me know what are your impression on this.
issue.

....cut....

Thanks in advance.

Regards

Michel
Renting an Axis/Vegas sounds like a great idea if only I could find a location near me. I'll have to look harder as an option to Cruise America, which only rents basic Class Cs without slides or awnings. That's what we normally do when we need more space.

Anyway, regarding the transmission, keep in mind that the "new-and-improved" Ford E-Series chassis for 2016 that the Axis/Vegas is built on will have a different transmission. The newer 6R140 is reportedly superior to the 5R110 you tested. Not only is gear spacing tighter, and torque capacity higher, but the manual control of gear selection should come in handy for occasions like you describe.

As I've stated in other threads, while the 5R110 gets the job done, I don't like how it works for slowing an RV on steep downhills.
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Old 08-19-2015, 07:26 PM   #4
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Hi Treutervid

Thanks for the information, helped me a lot.

Regards
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Old 08-19-2015, 07:31 PM   #5
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Hi Chance

Thanks for the info, and I do agree with you.

Regards
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Old 08-19-2015, 07:36 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by michbout View Post
....cut....

In my mind high rpm = fuel
Pls let me know what are your impression on this.
issue.

...cut....
When a small motorhome with a 6.8-liter V10 can get around 10 MPG traveling at an assumed speed of no more than 70 MPH, it means that during steady-state cruising it's only burning fuel at 7 gallons per hour or less. At lower speeds the average fuel burn rate is even lower.

If we work backwards (reverse engineering) it means that the V10 needs to be at fairly low RPMs to be at near maximum efficiency. Anything at much over 2,000 RPMs (in this case) will start to decrease engine efficiency and thus decrease fuel economy. Cruising on level roads at 3,000 to 3,500 RPMs would be too high for such a small fuel-efficient motorhome.

For larger motorhomes that require more power at same vehicle speed, operating at higher RPM may be optimum for that RV. Engine RPM itself is not a very good indicator of engine efficiency. It also has to be weighed against load on engine.

For all practical purposes, most gasoline engines can operate over a wide range of RPMs while maintaining good engine efficiency; but only if the load on engine is appropriate for the RPM in question.
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Old 08-19-2015, 08:04 PM   #7
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Chance

Concerning the tow/haul, should it be always on, even if not towing any vehicule or activate only when going down steep hills.
What would you do ???

Tks
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Old 08-19-2015, 08:19 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by michbout View Post
Chance

Concerning the tow/haul, should it be always on, even if not towing any vehicule or activate only when going down steep hills.
What would you do ???

Tks
I've rented various motorhomes with 5R110 for long trips (up to 5,000 miles each) out west over the Rockies and have tried it both ways. I personally don't find that much difference except for engine braking. And that was less than stellar. To me TowHaul on flat roads mostly seems to hold gears longer before up shifting, but even that is not that drastic a change.

If I end up buying a new Axis I plan to wait for the new 6R140 transmission. I'm also hoping it might improve fuel economy slightly.
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Old 08-19-2015, 11:27 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Chance View Post
When a small motorhome with a 6.8-liter V10 can get around 10 MPG traveling at an assumed speed of no more than 70 MPH, it means that during steady-state cruising it's only burning fuel at 7 gallons per hour or less. At lower speeds the average fuel burn rate is even lower.

If we work backwards (reverse engineering) it means that the V10 needs to be at fairly low RPMs to be at near maximum efficiency. Anything at much over 2,000 RPMs (in this case) will start to decrease engine efficiency and thus decrease fuel economy. Cruising on level roads at 3,000 to 3,500 RPMs would be too high for such a small fuel-efficient motorhome.

For larger motorhomes that require more power at same vehicle speed, operating at higher RPM may be optimum for that RV. Engine RPM itself is not a very good indicator of engine efficiency. It also has to be weighed against load on engine.

For all practical purposes, most gasoline engines can operate over a wide range of RPMs while maintaining good engine efficiency; but only if the load on engine is appropriate for the RPM in question.
Chance,
Your figures are right on the money with the mpg that I usually get on a more or less flat terrain considering little to no head winds. I usually try to keep the rpms around 1950-2000 which is around 58-60 mph. That seems to be the sweet spot for my camper. Mostly get 10-11 mpg and mostly closer to 11 and sometimes in the high desert runs over 11 mpg.
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Old 08-19-2015, 11:45 PM   #10
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I don't think we have ever seen 10 mpg in our Axis. We are approaching the 10,000 mile mark where the V-10 usually picks up a tick or so on the mpg meter and even with that we are still at 9 and below (only recently got 9 on flat terrain with gunny off and A/C off--we were towing a car though).
As far as Michbout's other questions:
3) water pump: yes switch it off when city water is connected
4) A regulator is a safe bet--I don't think there is one on the coach (doesn't appear to be one on ours)
5) black/grey tanks: kitchen sink and shower go to the grey tank, bathroom sink and toilet go to the black tank. Fouled black tank sensors are quite common thus the meter may read 1/3 full even when the tank is empty.
The dealer's recommendation is correct: it is safe to leave the grey tank open when connected to sewer but keep the black tank closed and only empty when full or leaving a campsite. It is good practice to have the black tank 2/3 full or more when emptying to get it flushed out.
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Old 08-20-2015, 02:21 AM   #11
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I usually leave the grey valve closed. I like to have some water in the grey tank to flush the dump hose after dumping the black tank. If we are going to be there long enough to fill it up I may leave it open but close it before our last showers so I have water to flush the hose.
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Old 08-20-2015, 12:27 PM   #12
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What they said, I agree. Great, helpful comments.

Tow/haul only for hills, up or down, or pulling heavy load. Some parks have low water pressure, so we run both city water and the pump. Water regulator is cheap insurance. The sensors may take a bit to register empty.

We're at 5,000 miles and averaging 9.5 mpg at 65 mph on interstates and 55-60 where that's the legal limit. We pull a small car.

Don't hold you breath about getting a 2016 chassis. There is generally a long lag before the chassis get switched to the new year. A good question for a Thor rep.
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Old 08-20-2015, 01:00 PM   #13
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Yeah that's right you'll want to close the grey about a day before you leave so you can use that to flush the hose (I generally don't because I have a flush kit on my black tank and just flush it until everything is clear).
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Old 08-20-2015, 01:10 PM   #14
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Yeah that's right you'll want to close the grey about a day before you leave so you can use that to flush the hose (I generally don't because I have a flush kit on my black tank and just flush it until everything is clear).
I have a flush kit also and wait until everything is clear. Problem with this is that the clear water never reaches the top of the sewer hose. I like the full rush of water from the grey tank when the valve is first opened to rinse out the hose after the black water. Just personal preference.
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Old 08-20-2015, 02:34 PM   #15
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I don't think we have ever seen 10 mpg in our Axis. We are approaching the 10,000 mile mark where the V-10 usually picks up a tick or so on the mpg meter and even with that we are still at 9 and below (only recently got 9 on flat terrain with gunny off and A/C off--we were towing a car though).

.....cut......
Jamie, RV speed should be critical to better fuel economy. Do you also cruise in the 58 to 60 MPH range? I'd expect going up to 70 MPH or so would decrease fuel economy significantly.

Do you have any data on MPG versus speed for your Axis under similar conditions?
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Old 08-20-2015, 02:40 PM   #16
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....cut..... I like the full rush of water from the grey tank when the valve is first opened to rinse out the hose after the black water. Just personal preference.
I've always done this also, although I've never had a flush kit.

I also disconnect the water hose off RV first and then rinse dump hose with water hose while going to sewer. I rotate dump hose back and forth to get it clean all around as much as possible. I don't recall ever having particulates left on hose. Seems to do a good-enough job.
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Old 08-20-2015, 10:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pstandiford
I have a flush kit also and wait until everything is clear. Problem with this is that the clear water never reaches the top of the sewer hose. I like the full rush of water from the grey tank when the valve is first opened to rinse out the hose after the black water. Just personal preference.
I also do that: simply close the black tank and let the flusher fill the tank. There really is no danger of "overpressuring" the black tank since its vented to the roof. Once its about 1/2 full I just open up the black tank valve again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chance
Jamie, RV speed should be critical to better fuel economy. Do you also cruise in the 58 to 60 MPH range? I'd expect going up to 70 MPH or so would decrease fuel economy significantly.

Do you have any data on MPG versus speed for your Axis under similar conditions?
Given that we're pushing a brick I would agree with that: slowing down would significantly increase mpg. I haven't really done any speed vs mpg measurements. Most of our travels are 65-70 mph (when we aren't in a hurry I'll go 65, when we are I'll go 70). My last two trips were at 65 on the cruise, Tow/Haul off and pulling the Escape (one of which I got my high of 9 mpg). Our last drive was from MI to DC over the hills of PA and thus we got a low of 7.5 mpg at one point (also with Tow/Haul off).

This weekend I'll be reversing that trip (DC back to MI) and thus I'm expecting similar mpg (7 mpg in PA, and 8+ in OH & MI).
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Old 08-29-2015, 02:10 PM   #18
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Chance

I just purchased a new Vegas, and it was confirmed that the new transmission 6R___
will be in it
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Old 08-30-2015, 12:14 PM   #19
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Gentlemen,

I have a 2016 Vegas, it has a 2015 Chassis built in April, purchased 30May16. After reading these postings I am now interested in knowing which transmission I have. Is there an easy way to tell the difference between the two?

I know where not to look: Ford 2015 E-Series Owners Manual, Thor Motor Coach Equipment listing (BTW: got the 15.0 BTU AC upgrade, found that), along with all the loan papers...nont of them mention the transmission.

I'll try calling Thor Monday as a last effort.

Please advise
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Old 08-30-2015, 01:45 PM   #20
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The easy way is to have your VIN# and call your Ford dealer.

The transmission # will be on the report.
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