Outlaw Ford V10 and transmission reliability

[Handy]

After getting 18 wonderful years out of our 2002 Thor Wanderer toy hauler, my wife and I are looking to buy an Outlaw 29J so we can have a motorhome and continue to enjoy a back patio with an adjacent bed. My issue is that I am a 34 year Chevy guy, with many years of happiness with the Duramax diesel and Allison transmission, and am skeptical of the Ford V10 and transmission. I have surfed the internet for information on this and have generally read positive reviews on the V10 (other than high revs and low fuel economy) but have read nothing about the transmission. In the Chevy market, the Allison was a major game changer and I am curious about what the developments have been with the Ford transmission in these class C motorhomes?

[Beau388]

The Ford Triton V-10 is the largest of the Ford modular engines. The series had been around since 1990. According to Ford the V-10 service life is 200,000 miles and has proven to be so by its use across the series of Ford's medium duty trucks (350, 450, 550, and 650 plus the E-350, E-450 and F-53 stripped chassis). The current 6 speed 6R140 is a single case transmission (unlike the three case Alison 6 speed) rated at 1,400 nm of torque (1,035 ftlbs). It was developed for the Ford 6.7 diesel engine and first saw service in 2011. It replace the 5R110 transmission in the medium duty gas trucks in 2016. The Ford V-10 was significantly de-tuned in 2016 to match the transmission dropping the max torque rpm from 3,500 rpm to 3,000 rpm but raising the max torque from 457 ftlbs to 460 ftlbs. Max hp is now 340 hp at 3,900 rpm for the three valve engine. Two valve engine is rated at 305 hp and 420 ftlbs or torque at the same rpms. Next year the V-10 will be history, as it is being replaced by the Ford 7.3L - 90 degree V-8.

[Handy]

Thank you Jim and Roy Davis for that very knowledgable reply! Now I must inquire about your opinion of the 7.3L? Should I wait for the Outlaw to use the 7.3L?

[Bob Denman]

I had an Outlaw 29 H, and this drivetrain combination served me very well.

[Chance]

On paper the new pushrod 7.3L V8 should be quite an improvement over the V10. However, as with any new design, there are risks.

Ford is betting big time on this new engine by installing on trucks from F-250 up to F-750. Personally, after owning two V10s I’m willing to take a chance on the new more-powerful V8 provided someone builds a decent motorhome on its chassis.

For now larger trucks and motorhomes will continue to have the 6R140. Ford is introducing 10-speed version (10R140 ????) on pickups and smaller trucks.

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by Handy

Thank you Jim and Roy Davis for that very knowledgeable reply! Now I must inquire about your opinion of the 7.3L? Should I wait for the Outlaw to use the 7.3L?

I would not. The reason for the 7.3 L is primarily to meet emissions, cheaper manufacturing and engine width. The V-10 is a SOC engine while the 7.3 L a pushrod. The V-10 with 6 sp is good combination for a relative light RV (Under 26,000 lbs). I did buy the Fiver Star Tune because I have an early 6 sp (Aug 2016) and the shift programming was abysmal. It took three tries with 5 Starr to get the shift schedule I wanted. Ford has since revised the shifting schedule for the 6-sp.

[Long & Winding road]

Originally Posted by Handy

Thank you Jim and Roy Davis for that very knowledgable reply! Now I must inquire about your opinion of the 7.3L? Should I wait for the Outlaw to use the 7.3L?

IMO I would not wait if you are truely ready for a new RV.

It might take a year or two before this new engine (and tranny) gets filter down to the Motorhome industry.

They are building the 2020 RV's on the 2019 chassis right now. So 2021 will be on the 2020 and so on.

So you might be looking at 2022 before we see them in an RV??

Plus how many of the "old" chassis do they have stockpiles at Ford or at any given RV manufacture so they dont have to re tool or Mod the RV for the changes?

Remember Thors motto...."Why spend money now when we can put off for later?".

Not to mention I never like the FIRST year of anything NEW in the Auto/Truck world. Give them a year to work out the bugs. So at the soonest (IMO) it would be 2022 if not 2023 before you see this new engine.

[Bob Denman]

Yup! The new engine and transmission might be a whole lot better...
If and when they get all of the kinks worked out of them.

Are you willing to wait?

[Long & Winding road]

You could look at it like this.....Get one NOW and then 4 or 5 years from now you can upgrade to the new engine and tranny.

Im on the 10 year plan (I hope) but you never know. Buy the time I upgrade my RV they will drive themselves and run on Battery power only.

[Bob Denman]

10 year plan?!?
How many more years is it; before you can start shopping again?

[JamieGeek]

There are airport shuttles with the V-10 and its corresponding transmission with millions of miles on them.

[Bob Denman]

But have they been driven by a pair of near-sighted olpharts, with a carsick pooch tied down to the dinette?

[Chance]

What new tranny are you guys referring to?


For what it’s worth, manufacturing for new 2021 E-Series with 7.3L V8 is scheduled to start 1st week of 2020, or in 4 months. There will be no Model Year 2020 E-Series chassis.

I seriously doubt it will take years to run remaining old V10 chassis through the pipeline. With most companies operating more on just-in-time manufacturing, they’d have to be clueless to get stuck with a year’s worth of chassis inventory.

If the more powerful new engines are quieter and smoother, and also get better MPG, the V10 could fall out of grace very quickly, so companies must protect themselves from that business risk. If reviews come in strong for 7.3L V8 (not saying they will be) then V10 motorhome stock would have to be discounted. It’s a risk for manufacturers and buyers either way whether they wait or not.

[Long & Winding road]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

10 year plan?!?
How many more years is it; before you can start shopping again?

8 more years. By then I will be close to retirement so I think we will want a larger RV for longer trips.

Things may change so it might be 6 or 12 more years?? Nothing is in stone.

But the wife really enjoys the Axis so It wont take much to talk her into something larger.

But 8 years from now lots of new RV's will be out. I will shop for Quality first then price 2nd. So Newmar and Tiffin are on my short list. Might even look at a two year old DP of some sort.

[Long & Winding road]

Originally Posted by Chance

What new tranny are you guys referring to?


For what it’s worth, manufacturing for new 2021 E-Series with 7.3L V8 is scheduled to start 1st week of 2020, or in 4 months. There will be no Model Year 2020 E-Series chassis.

I seriously doubt it will take years to run remaining old V10 chassis through the pipeline. With most companies operating more on just-in-time manufacturing, they’d have to be clueless to get stuck with a year’s worth of chassis inventory.

If the more powerful new engines are quieter and smoother, and also get better MPG, the V10 could fall out of grace very quickly, so companies must protect themselves from that business risk. If reviews come in strong for 7.3L V8 (not saying they will be) then V10 motorhome stock would have to be discounted. It’s a risk for manufacturers and buyers either way whether they wait or not.

Well thats good news. So 2021 "year model" Motorhome (at the soonest). Perhaps 2022 (Like 2 years). I just assumed the new engine would have a new tranny (perhaps 8 or 10 speed) to make it that much better.

I just hope they end up being better than the V10 (quieter + more MPG) than the out going RV. I like mine just fine but I welcome any major improvements. More HP and TQ is a bonus too!

Perhaps the RV manufactures will step up the QC and think about heat and noise rejecton from the ground up. Not to mention small dog houses? One can only hope.

[Oneilkeys]

Originally Posted by Long & Winding road

8 more years. By then I will be close to retirement so I think we will want a larger RV for longer trips.

Things may change so it might be 6 or 12 more years?? Nothing is in stone.

But the wife really enjoys the Axis so It wont take much to talk her into something larger.

But 8 years from now lots of new RV's will be out. I will shop for Quality first then price 2nd. So Newmar and Tiffin are on my short list. Might even look at a two year old DP of some sort.

We went to the Tampa RV show in 2016 with enough cash to trade our 2014 Vegas for something bigger- in the 30’ range. We had put 25,000 miles on the Vegas including a 4 1/2 month trip from FL to Alaska and back. After looking at every RV from 28-32’, we bought another Axis 24.1. Not one RV gave us anything more than the Axis except for more floor space and in some cases a bigger shower- which was a major plus. But when we looked at the additional hassles of driving, parking and finding a camp site in the National Parks, we did not think it was worth it. We have not been sorry. I found out in boats! That bigger is not always better. The smallest boat or RV that really meets your total needs is the best one for you. Sometimes that’s 35 or 40’ and sometimes 25’ will do just fine.

[Bob Denman]

The analogies about boats and RVs just keep growing.
First it was the one about boats being "A hole in the water; into which one throws money". RVs are the same: but the hole is in the woods...
Now we hear that you need to pick the smallest one that fits your needs...

Whatever happened to the era of "Wretched Excess"?

[Oneilkeys]

Listen to the one talking who just downsized to a 24’.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Long & Winding road

Well thats good news. So 2021 "year model" Motorhome (at the soonest). Perhaps 2022 (Like 2 years). I just assumed the new engine would have a new tranny (perhaps 8 or 10 speed) to make it that much better.

......cut.......

New E-Series are scheduled to start Jan 2, 2020. That’s only 4 months away. They will be labeled as 2021 Model Year.

According to Ford information, they will all have the same proven 6R140.


Let’s keep in mind that the larger new V8 versus existing V10 is not the only change. Ford is making other upgrades we discussed on this thread:

http://www.thorforums.com/forums/f10...ion-17842.html

[Long & Winding road]

Originally Posted by Chance

New E-Series are scheduled to start Jan 2, 2020. That’s only 4 months away. They will be labeled as 2021 Model Year.

According to Ford information, they will all have the same proven 6R140.


Let’s keep in mind that the larger new V8 versus existing V10 is not the only change. Ford is making other upgrades we discussed on this thread:

http://www.thorforums.com/forums/f10...ion-17842.html

But that "One year and 4 month" in the motorhome world. Everything is a year behind. Unless the frame is exactly the same they will have to retool the body for the new chassis. That takes time and money.... both of which they will do as slowly as possible IMO.