Palazzo 'winter' electrical tripping, it happens!

[TurnerFam]

...last night the temps went from 70 the day before to below freezing for several hours overnight...crazy, but true...so the 'winterizing' begins, and the needed 'heating' that it requires, while living in the coach.

We use mainly small 120v electric heaters spaced around the coach, rather than the propane that we don't tend to like the 'feel' of as much - but, of course, the electrical draw from space heaters can be 'fun' when tripping of breakers begins. At least, that's what I thought : /

This morning, after running two heaters on 750w settings overnight, the wife got up to get ready for work. She, of course, requires coffee, which I enjoy as well. She, of course, also uses the blow dryer. You probably are already ahead of me on this...

bamm! everything went dead.

O.k., so we tripped a breaker, no problem.


Nope. No breakers tripped. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm : / what now?
We are on 50amp power, let me go check the main breaker.

Nope. Good to go. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm : / what now?
The inverter actually still works, and provides power to all the outlets, yet the HEATERS, the COFFEE MAKER, and the BLOW DRYER are all 'still working'....
but the satellite receiver to the TV went off. The microwave is now blinking...
what gives????

Then I noticed that the Magnum panel was saying 'INVERTING', not 'Charging'...Hmmmmmmmmmm : / what???

Just then, the AGS started up the Generator - scary!!!! (when you're not expecting it!)... but, STILL NO CHARGING, and the Inverter is still on and pulling down the voltage, which will continue to ask the AGS to start the Generator!


o.k., so the wife left for work, and now I had 'time' to wrap my brain around this. Apparently my brain needs more 'time', now, than ever : /



It was simple, just not my 'first thought' when the lights go out(no pun intended, as our 'lights' are 12v, but you get the idea).... the INVERTER's fuse had popped.
Pushing it back in immediately solved the problem, and Charging again began.


Now, some may say that it is 'obvious' that this should be one of the first things to consider, but in over 100,000 miles over 5 years and many, many tripped breakers in the main panel, tripped shore power breakers, tripped generator breakers, and even a tripped main Battery buss breaker, I've NEVER had any issue with the INVERTER itself. Crazy...true.


Lesson learned. Apparently the Inverter did not want to handle the rush of amperage for the sudden aforementioned BLOW DRYER, when added to the mix of the current Inverter powered outlets, which ALL are.
No individual breaker tripped.
The Inverter's 'charger/pass-thru' breaker, in the main panel, did not trip.
The coach's main breaker did not trip.
The shore power breaker did not trip.


it happens : / but easily solved, IF you figure out 'where' to look : )


(o.k., I'll also add here my realization of what 'really' happened this morning:
The high draws caused the Inverter's own fuse to pop out, shutting down both the Inverter itself, and the integrated Battery Charger.
The Inverter PANEL read as 'OFF' when I first looked at it, which was somewhat confusing, but also why the sat receiver went dark, why the microwave went blank, and why when I pushed the 'Inverter' button, it all came back on.
The 'INVERTING', though, was what initially confused me, as I knew we were plugged into 50amp power, causing me to then think that we had lost shore power.
The kicker was that pushing the 'CHARGER' button did nothing, which I knew was not right. Without the Charging of the house batteries, any usage of any outlets would certainly, and quickly, bring down the battery levels, especially since those high draw heaters and blow dryer could STILL WORK, even thru the Inverter(just not very long).

So, the inspection of tripped breakers began, especially homing in on the 'Charger/Pass Thru' 30amp breaker which provide Shore Power to the Battery Charger part of the Magnum Inverter. That led me to believe that either shore power was lost, my own main breaker had tripped, or .... I couldn't think of ANYTHING else! (my bad, the fuse on the Inverter should be a though, but it just wasn't!).... oh well. Lesson learned. It'll probably happen tomorrow morning, too, when I go to blow dry my two tuffs of hair left! : ) )

[HaRVey]

Wow, frustrating and enlightening! May I ask what model Magnum you have? (We had different issues with our factory ME2012 and changed to a MS2812, but just curious if it is a size or model related issue)

[TurnerFam]

it's the original model Palazzo's came with - the ME2012, and works great... not any issue with the difference between Modified and Pure sine wave, as we've never had any issues whatsoever with the fridge, computers, laptops, devices, sat receivers...everything including the Microwave work just fine when on the Inverter.

What I've decided is that while the factory provides a 30amp 'Charger/Pass-thru' breaker to the Inverter/Charger, the Magnum Inverter itself has a 20amp fuse, which is what was exceeded during this morning's experience.

While you may also have 4 - 15amp Inverter circuit breakers to the various outlet circuits, going over that 20amp limit could be easier than thought, at first glance.

Both space heaters were plugged into outlets on the opposite ends of the coach, and probably not on the same breaker circuit.
The Coffee Maker and Blow Dryer, though, would have both been on the same circuit, since they are both on the GFCI controlled line.(bath and kitchen outlets)
But, even with that said, and since neither of the individual Inverter circuit breakers tripped, it was simply the 'combination' of all of these amps flowing thru the 20amp fuse within the Inverter, so IT tripped(or popped), rather than any breakers within the coach.

Since the 'whole house' Inverter is designed and wired to provide ALL the outlets in the coach with power, it can be very confusing when Shore Power is lost, since many things you have plugged into outlets will STILL continue working, if the Inverter is on, of course...BUT, when you still HAVE shore power, but the Charger is no longer working, it can seem that something is just 'not right'...as in this morning. So, the only link is either the 'Charger/Pass-thru' breaker within your main panel, OR the Inverter's fuse, itself.

Since, in all our travels and situations and the HEAT of this summer, and the WINTERS of previous years, we've never experienced a popped Inverter fuse, it was just not the 'first thing' that came to mind. It's relatively a very simple fix, though

: )

[HaRVey]

Good info. I was curious because we have done the same thing (heater, coffee, blow dryer, etc) many times with both type Magnums without issue, but typically with only one small heater, and finish making coffee before she fires up the blow dryer, so basically we've gotten lucky!
Thanks for the warning!

[TurnerFam]

yes, agreed, we do too - this morning was the 'first' day of freezing weather, and we were moving this morning, and... you get the picture, everyone's not 'thinking' electrical, but just expect it to work, no matter the 'new' circumstances versus the prior morning : )

two heaters, a coffee maker, and a blow dryer equals more than the 2000watts the Inverter fuse is designed to handle...

...removing just one of these items, like waiting to make coffee until after 'blow drying', may just render the morning much more 'normal'...no tripped breakers or fuses.

My fault, though, as I lay in bed thinking that 'all that amperage is probably going to trip a breaker'....oh well. : / My wife has a lazy husband. To my credit, though, I had been out at 1:30am remembering to unhook the water lines, and make sure nothing would freeze before morning. : )

[HaRVey]

You're too hard on yourself. Whenever I (or my wife) discover some new "limitation", I use it as a excuse (as long as i can afford it) to make some modifications or improvements to the RV, so it will be more forgiving of our spoiled or lazy nature...
Best of luck on all of your adventures!

[Beau388]

Just add - My coach has a Xantex Freedom Xi 2000 watt true sine wave inverter with a 3 15 amp sub panel, also. The pass trough is also 30 amps. If on shore power the inverter will pass the full 28 amps before it trips the CAFCI breaker in the power center. Only if the shore power fails and the inverter tries to supply more than 2000 watts, will the internal circuit breaker will shut down the inverter. This requires a hard reset - isolating the inverter from all power (12 volt and 120 volt) for a couple minutes. We now use the electric heaters only on the GFCI circuits.