Vegas 25.4 next floorplan - Page 2

**EA37TS** · 12-02-2015, 05:24 PM

Something to keep in mind is that we as individuals are not Thor's customers and thereby have very little impact on their design decisions. Thor's customers are their dealer network that buys the units from Thor and then resells them to us, the consumers of the product.

Unfortunately it is the dealers who will impact design decisions by discussing with Thor those things (floor plans) that sell and those that don't.

A little known fact about Thor is their dealers must purchase the units with financing from an independent financial institution. The dealer then sells the RV to the consumer. Basically you are the customer of the dealer and not the customer of Thor.

As a note, Thor's greatest risk to revenue is the loss of Freedom Roads LLC as a dealer. For those that may not know, Freedom Roads LLC is the parent to Camping World and they represent 17 percent of Thor's sales (2015 share holder report to the SEC).

groswald · 12-02-2015, 06:50 PM

Dave,

Any hints on why CW dropped Thor? It would actually be kind of amusing if CW had an issue with Thor quality... kind of a pot and kettle thing.

Randy

**EA37TS** · 12-02-2015, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groswald

Dave,

Any hints on why CW dropped Thor? It would actually be kind of amusing if CW had an issue with Thor quality... kind of a pot and kettle thing.

Randy

I don't believe Camping World dropped Thor. The largest customer for Thor is the parent company (Freedom Roads) of Camping World.

Chance · 12-02-2015, 07:06 PM

In doing market research, I expect companies like Thor are interested in what the ultimate customer/user wants, not the middle man. If we don't like the products Thor builds, they will sit at Camping World lots until heavily discounted, at which time Camping World won't order any more of that model.

I don't see it all that different that selling Coca-Cola. Coke may sell directly to Kroger, Albertson's, or Publics, but what Coke wants to have is a product we want enough to buy at these stores. In doing market research they test product preferences on us, the consumer who consumes the drink, not the store that acts as a middle man.

I don't doubt that Camping Worlds of the world give Thor feedback on what customers want, but I expect Thor does independent market research as well.

DocMike · 12-02-2015, 07:07 PM

WHATTTT?????

CW AND THOR ARE GETTING A DIVORCE??? Does that mean me and my Vegas are orphans????

I need a hug.

Doc

JamieGeek · 12-02-2015, 07:24 PM

I think you've misinterpreted Dave's statement:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dstankov

As a note, Thor's greatest risk to revenue is the loss of Freedom Roads LLC as a dealer. For those that may not know, Freedom Roads LLC is the parent to Camping World and they represent 17 percent of Thor's sales (2015 share holder report to the SEC).

He didn't say they lost CW he said their greatest risk was losing CW.

**EA37TS** · 12-02-2015, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocMike

WHATTTT?????

CW AND THOR ARE GETTING A DIVORCE??? Does that mean me and my Vegas are orphans????

I need a hug.

Doc

No hugs today. Read the entire post. Freedom Roads is the parent company of Camping World and Freedom Roads is Thor's biggest customer with 17 percent of Thor's revenue coming from Freedom Roads.

Dan9841 · 12-02-2015, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocMike

WHATTTT?????

CW AND THOR ARE GETTING A DIVORCE??? Does that mean me and my Vegas are orphans????

I need a hug.

Doc

doc you are very funny

**EA37TS** · 12-02-2015, 08:35 PM

Here is the quote from Thor's 2015 annual report: The entire report can be viewed here:

Thor Industries - Financial Information - Annual Report

"The loss of our largest dealer could have a significant effect on our business.

FreedomRoads, LLC accounted for 17% of our consolidated net sales for fiscal 2015. The loss of this dealer could have a significant adverse effect
on our business. In addition, deterioration in the liquidity or credit worthiness of FreedomRoads, LLC could negatively impact our sales and accounts receivable and could trigger repurchase obligations under our repurchase agreements."

In the FWIW category here is another quote from the same report

"Our products and services may experience quality problems from time to time that can result in decreased sales and gross margin and
could harm our reputation.

Our products contain thousands of parts, many of which are supplied by a network of approved vendors. As with all of our competitors, defects may occur in our products, including those purchased from our vendors. We cannot assure you that we will detect all such defects prior to distribution of our products. In addition, although we endeavor to compel our suppliers to maintain appropriate levels of insurance coverage, we cannot assure you that if a defect in a vendor supplied part were to occur that the vendor would have the ability to financially rectify the defect. Failure to detect defects in our products, including vendor supplied parts, could result in lost revenue, increased warranty and related costs and could harm our reputation."

DocMike · 12-02-2015, 09:05 PM

All,

Thanks for the correction.

I went back and read the entire report, under ITEM 1A, Risk Factors it says: "IF any of the following risks actually occur, our business, financial condition or results of operations could be harmed." Then goes on to list possible problems, which included "The Loss of our largest dealer...". A worst case scenario, just a possibility!

I'm still in my rookie season as an RV owner (not all smooth sailing either)...just a little over concerned about my investment

.

Doc

**fhenn** · 12-02-2015, 09:18 PM

Beside Thor bailed them out with a large loan when the economy took a powder

Mr Sunshine · 12-03-2015, 12:17 AM

OK kids, this is standard language for an annual report from a publicly held (stockholder owned) company. The relationship between Thor and CW is mutually beneficial.

I second Chance's comments about the consumer (us) being the driving force behind the products offered by the manufacturer. You can bet that Thor monitors dealer feedback, and this and other forums, but it is sales and profits that ultimately drive corporate decisions.

DocMike · 12-03-2015, 02:52 AM

Mr. S,

Let me play the devil's advocate here.

If it is Sales and Profits that ultimately drive corporate decisions why do they not join the various Forums out here and ASK what current owners would like? For cost efficiency why not give us owners a Thor erector set with established (existing) componet sizes and see what we can come up with?

I believe it is because you left out one little three letter word that dictates so very much of Corporate workings at all levels - but more so at the big table...EGO. The further up the Corporate Food Chain some go the harder many Executives find it to ask for help.

Sad, too bad and often too true.

Doc

Mr Sunshine · 12-03-2015, 03:08 AM

No disagreement there, Doc! Way back when, there was a book about the Peter Principle. The jist of it was that executives tend to rise to their level of incompetence. Then they stay there, because no one wants to admit a mistake. Still happens decades later. Innovations always are risky. Ultimately, it's always about the profit, the driving force of capitalism!

**EA37TS** · 12-03-2015, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Sunshine

...
I second Chance's comments about the consumer (us) being the driving force behind the products offered by the manufacturer. You can bet that Thor monitors dealer feedback, and this and other forums, but it is sales and profits that ultimately drive corporate decisions.

Here is a sad fact of life as far as Thor is concerned.

On the Forest River forum a user by the name of BClemens has over 4,100 posts. BClemons is a Forest River Engineer who answered many of my questions when I owned my SunSeeker. BClemens is still active on the FR forum but now works within the Dynamax Division of Forest River.

Try to find one single reply on this forum from anyone (Janitor through Corporate Exec) on this forum that represents a response from Thor to the multitude of issues or concerns we face.

Thor's monitoring of this forum is as worthless as the warranty supplied with the Harris batteries they install in the motorhomes.

How about it Thor, care to comment?

**fhenn** · 12-03-2015, 08:43 AM

Thor does not run this forum, Weather they take a peak at it from time to time is speculation

DocMike · 12-03-2015, 11:07 AM

Flenn,

I do not run Weather Channel, but I do look at it for advice daily...Thor could do worse than reviewing the contents of this (and other) Forums that deal with their products, the end users, our concerns/problems with their products and then even go so far as to ask for Owners input.

Doc

**fhenn** · 12-03-2015, 11:30 AM

I agree with you they should be looking at all related sites as all manufactures should. At one time they did make an effort to check on thing here, but I do not think that they do it on a regular time frame

Mr Sunshine · 12-03-2015, 11:50 AM

My source: A Thor regional sales rep told me earlier this year that this forum was monitored by the company. Let's move on.

Chance · 12-03-2015, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocMike

Mr. S,

Let me play the devil's advocate here.

If it is Sales and Profits that ultimately drive corporate decisions why do they not join the various Forums out here and ASK what current owners would like? For cost efficiency why not give us owners a Thor erector set with established (existing) componet sizes and see what we can come up with?

I believe it is because you left out one little three letter word that dictates so very much of Corporate workings at all levels - but more so at the big table...EGO. The further up the Corporate Food Chain some go the harder many Executives find it to ask for help.

Sad, too bad and often too true.

Doc

I think that officially asking what we want in an open forum has too much risk for most companies -- there is more down side than up. Like attorneys supposedly say, you don't want to ask a question in court that you don't already know the answer to. Surprises they are not ready to deal with can be a bad thing for companies.

As an example, Thor should already know customers hate their batteries, but if they are limited by contract or other factors we don't know, it would make them seem uncaring if they continued to use them even after we told them they suck.

When I communicated directly with Thor product guys over a year ago, they made it clear that they could not accept any ideas for new products or product improvements. Their position was that it was policy because if I drew up a floorplan and they built it, I could then ask for financial compensation. And from their standpoint, there was nothing to say that floorplan wasn't already on the drawing boards.

What you suggest regarding design is done by Sportsmobile, but that's custom build. The owner designs their own floorplan, chooses whether they want a generator or not, propane or all electric, etc... It's a great system but a little expensive. The only other option I'm aware of for people who are particular is to build the van themselves -- provided they have the skills, tools, space, time, etc....

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