2018 Outlaw 29H lift and bigger tires

[daver35]

Great looking trip. The suspension update looks good too! Thanks for sharing. Will have to keep this in mind for ours.

[azadv]

Originally Posted by daver35

Great looking trip. The suspension update looks good too! Thanks for sharing. Will have to keep this in mind for ours.

The 3 most useful/effective modifications/upgrades on my 29H have been the suspension/tires, the 400 watt solar charging system, and transferring the existing 1000 watt 'entertainment' inverter to power the 2-way fridge while travelling (essentially making it a 3-way fridge).

Without the suspension/tires the trip would have been possible but I'm sure not as comfortable (and easy to drive) and I'm SURE there would have been multiple times I would have dragged the rear of the coach and/or the super low-hanging leveler feet. If I ever needed to reduce the somewhat steep angle of the rear ramp I just manually raised the front of the rig using the (front) levelers to bring the rear down. I had gotten some wooden beam sections cut in San Diego to place under the levelers (to make up for the lift) while the suspension was being installed. One of them eventually cracked while in Alaska and I had some (much stronger) glulam beam sections cut at a lumber supply there, and then treated them with Thompson's Water Seal. Should have used glulam pieces from the start.

Without the solar I would have had a more difficult time staying in places w/o hookups, having to run the generator much more if I did. On my 4.5 month trip I only stayed at electrical hookup sites a few times for maybe 15 days total, and one of those (for 4 days) had sewer/water connection. I generally chose sites with sun access for the solar. Sometimes in forested campgrounds that was a bit difficult but usually there are sites with at least some exposure. The only time I really ran the generator was in Maryland at Greenbelt Campground (right next to DC where my Marine son is stationed). A few times while there I was at the RV during the day and the humidity and temps in the 90s were miserable and I ran the A/C for a few hours on the generator. By the way, that campground is THE place to stay with your RV while visiting the DC area. Super close (15-20 min) to the national mall and inexpensive, a hidden gem. The Metro transit system is walking distance to take you everywhere in the DC area. It's also adjacent to the Roosevelt 'New Deal' planned co-op community of Greenbelt, one of 3 communities constructed in the US in the 1930's for people who met certain qualifications to live there. A camp host I talked to there grew up in Greenbelt, his parents were part of the original planned community in the 30s.

The transfer of the 1000 watt inverter to power the fridge worked really well. I had the fridge on 12v power using the inverter whenever driving and sometimes for 5-6 hours during the day (while camped) when the solar was working really well in the Alaska long-sun days. So I used much less propane and didn't have to worry about running the fridge on propane while driving. At the same time when I moved the existing 1000 watt inverter to a place under the fridge (to power it), I installed a 2000 watt version of the same brand/model inverter in the original place (in the rear left outside storage compartment) to run the entertainment systems and also attached it to the microwave so I could run that for short periods without cranking up the generator.

[Long & Winding road]

Great. Thats for the info. Sounds like an awesome trip. "one of these days" we hope to take the trek to AK.

[daver35]

That's some good information. I will have to look into the frig modification.
I only have a 200 watt renogy setup but when the sun was out i remembered seeing 12-15+ amps. I got the portable set up and i believe it can be expanded as well for more panels. I've just always been very suprised at how long my lp tanks lasts so i never gave it any thought. the longest we have been dry camping was 5 days last October. We had some cold nights as well but it would be nice to have the ability to use as much free energy as we can.
i'll have to look into that setup of yours. Thanks for the idea!

Originally Posted by azadv

The 3 most useful/effective modifications/upgrades on my 29H have been the suspension/tires, the 400 watt solar charging system, and transferring the existing 1000 watt 'entertainment' inverter to power the 2-way fridge while travelling (essentially making it a 3-way fridge).

Without the suspension/tires the trip would have been possible but I'm sure not as comfortable (and easy to drive) and I'm SURE there would have been multiple times I would have dragged the rear of the coach and/or the super low-hanging leveler feet. If I ever needed to reduce the somewhat steep angle of the rear ramp I just manually raised the front of the rig using the (front) levelers to bring the rear down. I had gotten some wooden beam sections cut in San Diego to place under the levelers (to make up for the lift) while the suspension was being installed. One of them eventually cracked while in Alaska and I had some (much stronger) glulam beam sections cut at a lumber supply there, and then treated them with Thompson's Water Seal. Should have used glulam pieces from the start.

Without the solar I would have had a more difficult time staying in places w/o hookups, having to run the generator much more if I did. On my 4.5 month trip I only stayed at electrical hookup sites a few times for maybe 15 days total, and one of those (for 4 days) had sewer/water connection. I generally chose sites with sun access for the solar. Sometimes in forested campgrounds that was a bit difficult but usually there are sites with at least some exposure. The only time I really ran the generator was in Maryland at Greenbelt Campground (right next to DC where my Marine son is stationed). A few times while there I was at the RV during the day and the humidity and temps in the 90s were miserable and I ran the A/C for a few hours on the generator. By the way, that campground is THE place to stay with your RV while visiting the DC area. Super close (15-20 min) to the national mall and inexpensive, a hidden gem. The Metro transit system is walking distance to take you everywhere in the DC area. It's also adjacent to the Roosevelt 'New Deal' planned co-op community of Greenbelt, one of 3 communities constructed in the US in the 1930's for people who met certain qualifications to live there. A camp host I talked to there grew up in Greenbelt, his parents were part of the original planned community in the 30s.

The transfer of the 1000 watt inverter to power the fridge worked really well. I had the fridge on 12v power using the inverter whenever driving and sometimes for 5-6 hours during the day (while camped) when the solar was working really well in the Alaska long-sun days. So I used much less propane and didn't have to worry about running the fridge on propane while driving. At the same time when I moved the existing 1000 watt inverter to a place under the fridge (to power it), I installed a 2000 watt version of the same brand/model inverter in the original place (in the rear left outside storage compartment) to run the entertainment systems and also attached it to the microwave so I could run that for short periods without cranking up the generator.

[vegasruv24.1]

Originally Posted by azadv

The 3 most useful/effective modifications/upgrades on my 29H have been the suspension/tires, the 400 watt solar charging system, and transferring the existing 1000 watt 'entertainment' inverter to power the 2-way fridge while travelling (essentially making it a 3-way fridge).

Without the suspension/tires the trip would have been possible but I'm sure not as comfortable (and easy to drive) and I'm SURE there would have been multiple times I would have dragged the rear of the coach and/or the super low-hanging leveler feet. If I ever needed to reduce the somewhat steep angle of the rear ramp I just manually raised the front of the rig using the (front) levelers to bring the rear down. I had gotten some wooden beam sections cut in San Diego to place under the levelers (to make up for the lift) while the suspension was being installed. One of them eventually cracked while in Alaska and I had some (much stronger) glulam beam sections cut at a lumber supply there, and then treated them with Thompson's Water Seal. Should have used glulam pieces from the start.

Without the solar I would have had a more difficult time staying in places w/o hookups, having to run the generator much more if I did. On my 4.5 month trip I only stayed at electrical hookup sites a few times for maybe 15 days total, and one of those (for 4 days) had sewer/water connection. I generally chose sites with sun access for the solar. Sometimes in forested campgrounds that was a bit difficult but usually there are sites with at least some exposure. The only time I really ran the generator was in Maryland at Greenbelt Campground (right next to DC where my Marine son is stationed). A few times while there I was at the RV during the day and the humidity and temps in the 90s were miserable and I ran the A/C for a few hours on the generator. By the way, that campground is THE place to stay with your RV while visiting the DC area. Super close (15-20 min) to the national mall and inexpensive, a hidden gem. The Metro transit system is walking distance to take you everywhere in the DC area. It's also adjacent to the Roosevelt 'New Deal' planned co-op community of Greenbelt, one of 3 communities constructed in the US in the 1930's for people who met certain qualifications to live there. A camp host I talked to there grew up in Greenbelt, his parents were part of the original planned community in the 30s.

The transfer of the 1000 watt inverter to power the fridge worked really well. I had the fridge on 12v power using the inverter whenever driving and sometimes for 5-6 hours during the day (while camped) when the solar was working really well in the Alaska long-sun days. So I used much less propane and didn't have to worry about running the fridge on propane while driving. At the same time when I moved the existing 1000 watt inverter to a place under the fridge (to power it), I installed a 2000 watt version of the same brand/model inverter in the original place (in the rear left outside storage compartment) to run the entertainment systems and also attached it to the microwave so I could run that for short periods without cranking up the generator.

sorry for my dumb question, but just trying to learn, or understand here...doesn't the fridge run off the batterys already on 12v going down the road??? so what you are saying is the fridge is just 120v/ or propane???

[azadv]

Originally Posted by vegasruv24.1

sorry for my dumb question, but just trying to learn, or understand here...doesn't the fridge run off the batterys already on 12v going down the road??? so what you are saying is the fridge is just 120v/ or propane???

No it doesn't, not in my coach. The fridge in this coach, and most coaches, is a 2-way fridge, meaning it runs on 120V when plugged in (or on generator) or on propane, but not on 12V. That would be a 3-way fridge and they cost a bit more which is why I'm sure most coaches come with a 2-way. Some rigs do have 3-ways, my old Arctic Fox cabover camper had one. When on 12V setting a 3-way fridge draws quite a bit of current so you can really only use it on 12V setting when traveling and your rigs alternator is providing a charge to the house batteries, or if you have adequate solar to use 12V during peak times of the day (what I did in AK for 5-6 hours/day). What I did was install a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter and plug the fridge's 120V plug into it. The inverter that came in this Outlaw (the original one used for entertainment that I used for the fridge) has an automatic transfer switch in it so if you plug into 120V or run the generator the 120V goes through the switch so you are using shore or generator 120V instead of converting the house 12V to 120V. I then replaced the original Xantrex 1000W inverter (that I used for the fridge) with a 1800W Xantrex (sorry I said it was 2000W in above post) and beefed up the 12V power cables to it from the house batteries, and connected the microwave 120V circuit to it.

[vegasruv24.1]

Originally Posted by azadv

No it doesn't, not in my coach. The fridge in this coach, and most coaches, is a 2-way fridge, meaning it runs on 120V when plugged in (or on generator) or on propane, but not on 12V. That would be a 3-way fridge and they cost a bit more which is why I'm sure most coaches come with a 2-way. Some rigs do have 3-ways, my old Arctic Fox cabover camper had one. When on 12V setting a 3-way fridge draws quite a bit of current so you can really only use it on 12V setting when traveling and your rigs alternator is providing a charge to the house batteries, or if you have adequate solar to use 12V during peak times of the day (what I did in AK for 5-6 hours/day). What I did was install a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter and plug the fridge's 120V plug into it. The inverter that came in this Outlaw (the original one used for entertainment that I used for the fridge) has an automatic transfer switch in it so if you plug into 120V or run the generator the 120V goes through the switch so you are using shore or generator 120V instead of converting the house 12V to 120V. I then replaced the original Xantrex 1000W inverter (that I used for the fridge) with a 1800W Xantrex (sorry I said it was 2000W in above post) and beefed up the 12V power cables to it from the house batteries, and connected the microwave 120V circuit to it.

thanks for the details...guess I have to check what fridge I got...2019 hurricane 29m.... I really like the mods you have done..I did a similar set up back in 2015.. but I went with 19.5 wheels and tires... seems like the tires were 255's... but the plan was to convert the coach to 4x4... never got that far cause my wife hated the corner bed...I wish I would have kept the 24.1 and had it made 4x4, and just put a dinette in the front... that huge king size bed in the back was way cool...my wife had a alpine dp, which I sold and bought the 24.1... she was not too happy with me, called it a cramper…..lol happy wife… happy ife… women, you can't live with them and you can't live with them...

[Judge]

Originally Posted by azadv

I then replaced the original Xantrex 1000W inverter (that I used for the fridge) with a 1800W Xantrex (sorry I said it was 2000W in above post) and beefed up the 12V power cables to it from the house batteries, and connected the microwave 120V circuit to it.

I think I understand how you got the fridge on the inverter (sounds like you moved it under the fridge access area where the water pump is located).

How did you get the microwave on the fridge installing the 1800W back in the original place? Where you able to change the wiring in the electrical service panel or did you have to run some new wiring to it?

[azadv]

I did the connnection to the microwave at the distribution panel, but I did beef up the wiring to/from that 1800w inverter.
Since the fridge inverter was located under the fridge above the water tank and water pump area, which is closed off in the Outlaw 29H, I installed a 120v muffin fan with a fan filter on the wood panel that attaches in front of that area. The fan turns on with the inverter and sucks in air from living area to cool the inverter. There is a wiring corridor space that leads rearward from that area under the fridge to where the converter/distribution panel is, that’s where the exhaust would be, at the converter front grill. I ended up replacing that 120VAC-12VDC converter with a better 4-stage Intellipower one and decided the plastic grill in front of it was too restrictive for cooling so I cut out the perforated ‘grill’ area and installed muffin fan grills with filters on them like the one I used on the fridge cooling fan panel. Pictures would help explain but I’m in San Diego at a wedding now for a week so maybe when I get back

[Judge]

Originally Posted by azadv

I did the connnection to the microwave at the distribution panel, but I did beef up the wiring to/from that 1800w inverter.
Since the fridge inverter was located under the fridge above the water tank and water pump area, which is closed off in the Outlaw 29H, I installed a 120v muffin fan with a fan filter on the wood panel that attaches in front of that area. The fan turns on with the inverter and sucks in air from living area to cool the inverter. There is a wiring corridor space that leads rearward from that area under the fridge to where the converter/distribution panel is, that’s where the exhaust would be, at the converter front grill. I ended up replacing that 120VAC-12VDC converter with a better 4-stage Intellipower one and decided the plastic grill in front of it was too restrictive for cooling so I cut out the perforated ‘grill’ area and installed muffin fan grills with filters on them like the one I used on the fridge cooling fan panel. Pictures would help explain but I’m in San Diego at a wedding now for a week so maybe when I get back

That would be super..... thanks!

[10scDust]

Our Norcold refridgerator needs the 12vdc to operate the control panel, the on/off switch auto or gas panel.
Without the use switch on, or converter supplying 12 volts, the fridge turns off.

But I understand what adding an inverter dedicated does, it eliminates running on LP driving down the road, for one.
Not a bad idea, I think.

[HamiltonSeth]

Did you drive on the Nexan tires before the lift at all? Were there clearance issues with that size? How did it drive with just the tire upgrade? I too am interested in a lift or suspension work for my 2019 Thor Quantum RS26 but trying to weigh out all the options. Absolutely want a more aggressive all terrain tire. Thanks for the feedback.

[azadv]

Originally Posted by HamiltonSeth

Did you drive on the Nexan tires before the lift at all? Were there clearance issues with that size? How did it drive with just the tire upgrade? I too am interested in a lift or suspension work for my 2019 Thor Quantum RS26 but trying to weigh out all the options. Absolutely want a more aggressive all terrain tire. Thanks for the feedback.

I did install the Nexans before I drove the coach to San Diego for the lift at Weldtec. I had only driven it home from dealer, to my kids houses locally, and to the tire place with the OEM tires before that, maybe a total of 50 city miles, so I can't really make a valid comparison between OEM and larger Nexan AT's. I wanted to sell the OEM's with as little miles on them as possible to offset the cost of the new tires, 'cause I'm cheap that way. I can tell you that on the trip from PHX to SD (about 400 miles) the coach was kinda squirrely on the highway and when big rigs passed me (I usually only go 55/60mph regardless of the speed limit cause I don't give a sh*t and I have time) there was a lot of sway and swerve, and it sucked to the point of being a wee bit scary. On the way back to AZ there was noticeable improvement in ride quality and negative effects of big rigs passing me subsided to the point I wasn't all tense seeing them come up from the rear, it turned into a non-issue. Then I installed the Fox steering stabilizer to replace to puny OEM one and things got even better.

Tire clearance was close on the left rear in particular, the back side of that tire was close to the fender flare but the right side rear was centered OK. I ended up taking off the flare and removing some material and reinstalling the flare to even things out, then I installed some proper mud flaps on both the front and rear. The front tires didn't really have any clearance issues. There are pics in this thread of new tires installed before lift, I put them there to illustrate clearance...

[Handy]

Very cool thread you have going here! I just bought a 2020 Outlaw 29J and read your initial post a few weeks ago when I was researching the purchase. I weighed the axles on my way home from the dealer and ordered the 6" lift kit from Weldtec the next day. I am going to install it myself. It looks like the stock tires are about 29", so are your new tires about 31.5"? Measuring mine it looks like it is going to be a tight fit in the rear unless I stay under 31". I also installed 320 watts of solar today and figured out the issue with the limited outlets connected to the inverter. In 18 years I have never had a TV in my camper and now I have 4 TV's on an inverter! I was wondering if the leveling jacks would lift the coach high enough to change a tire and looking at your picture they do! I guess a tire-changing jack is not necessary in the tool kit. Did you consider carrying a spare wheel under the garage? Nice trip you had, thanks for the pictures. Do you have a picture of how you secured the motorcycle? In my last toy hauler, I installed a bar from wall to wall to hold the front tire.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Handy

Very cool thread you have going here! I just bought a 2020 Outlaw 29J and read your initial post a few weeks ago when I was researching the purchase. I weighed the axles on my way home from the dealer and ordered the 6" lift kit from Weldtec the next day. I am going to install it myself. It looks like the stock tires are about 29", so are your new tires about 31.5"? Measuring mine it looks like it is going to be a tight fit in the rear unless I stay under 31". I also installed 320 watts of solar today and figured out the issue with the limited outlets connected to the inverter. In 18 years I have never had a TV in my camper and now I have 4 TV's on an inverter! I was wondering if the leveling jacks would lift the coach high enough to change a tire and looking at your picture they do! I guess a tire-changing jack is not necessary in the tool kit. Did you consider carrying a spare wheel under the garage? Nice trip you had, thanks for the pictures. Do you have a picture of how you secured the motorcycle? In my last toy hauler, I installed a bar from wall to wall to hold the front tire.

Just a word of caution. I have a 2018 29H like AZADV. This has the 8' x 9' garage that is supposed to be rated to carry 1500lbs (the 29J's garage is shorter and rated for 1000lbs now I believe). Take those weight ratings with a grain of salt.

I don't know what you will be carrying but let me tell you about my experience....

We carry a Can-Am Spyder that weighs 1000lbs. When I bought the 29H I was not worried or thinking about the GVW limits because that garage said it could handle 1500lbs. It turns out than when I am carrying the Spyder, full load of fuel, full load of water and about 3/4 a tank of propane with 2 people and typical gear, we are 1000lbs overweight (~15,500lbs)!

Thor's weight numbers are very misleading. The 29H garage may be physically able to carry 1500lbs but when you put 1000lbs in it you could be overweight.

You may want to get a full load in the rig and then weight it so you know how much you have to work with in terms of available GVW. I'm guessing the lift-kit will add a few pounds as well as will a spare tire.

The weakest part of the 29H is the load range of the stock tires. First I was going to move to the Rickson customer 17.5 wheels but they could not get them anymore (and they were very expensive). Then I was going to upgrade my tires to a Commercial Rated 16" Tire (https://www.goodyear.com/en-US/tires...tude-ht-c-type) that would give me over 3000lbs of load capability.

The axles and brakes should be able to handle the 15,500lbs load but if I was ever in an accident and they found I was overweight, I would probably be assigned blame even if it wasn't directly my fault.

I was not concerned about a trips less than 500 miles one-way but we want to spend 3 months on the road traveling the west when we retire in a couple years. I decided I was not comfortable being 1000lbs overweight traveling those distances and being in mountains, etc.

We started looking at Super C's (Thor Magnitude, Jayco Senca, Dynamax Force) and figured we would replace the Outlaw in about 12 - 18 months and then tow the Spyder on a trailer or dingy. We decided the Magnitude 4x4 would work for us after walking through one last week. We ended up working a good deal and are trading our 29H a year ahead of schedule.

The Outlaw 29H has been very good for our shorter trips and hauling the Spyder in the garage for our site seeing. I had to spend a few thousand in beefing up the suspension to get it to ride and handle properly and then another couple thousand on upgrades and improvements but it has been a fun coach for us. I was also just about to spend about $1500 in new commercial rated tires (glad I didn't).

We just came to the realization it wasn't going to be enough coach for 3 months on the road from having enough room two, storage, carrying capacity and power. We also decided that towing a dingy would be needed with uncertain weather at times (did you see Glacier National Park this weekend?).

Good luck with your 29J..... I still think the Outlaw is a great coach for people who like to carry their toys versus pulling them!

[Bob Denman]

Spyders fit the Outlaw's garage... As long as it's about the only thing that you're putting in it...

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

Spyders fit the Outlaw's garage... As long as it's about the only thing that you're putting in it...

Attachment 20579

Attachment 20580

Attachment 20581

Attachment 20582

You helped me 18-months ago by sending me those pics so I am forever greatful!

But.... 2018 and the 29H was the last year the Spyder would fit in the garage and why we searched far and wide for a left-over 2018 last year. They shortened the garage a foot in the 29J and two feet in the 29S.

I'm not sure if the 2020 Spyders will fit in the 29H... according to the specs they are now a couple inches longer.

[Dochands]

Bob on my 38’ I had to remove the trailer hitch.

[azadv]

Originally Posted by Handy

Did you consider carrying a spare wheel under the garage? Nice trip you had, thanks for the pictures. Do you have a picture of how you secured the motorcycle? In my last toy hauler, I installed a bar from wall to wall to hold the front tire.

Sorry for the late response, I was up in S Utah/N Rim area for couple weeks in my rig. I am more in love with this RV than ever. I friggen LOVE this thing, it's perfect for me.

Ponderosa Ranch Resort just E of Zion NP:

Point Sublime N Rim Grand Canyon NP (Flagstaff is 75 miles away as the crow files, 200 driving):




I did think about carrying a spare but decided it wasn't really necessary. The wheels are all interchangeable so in the event of a flat you can just run one tire on a rear until you get to a tire place, that's my thought.

With your 6" lift you'll need some wood blocks to put under the levelers. I suggest getting some cut off a glulam beam. I had originally had some cut from a regular wood beam while I was in San Diego getting the lift installed at Weldtec, but by the time I got to AK last year one of them split so I had some glulam pieces cut in Soldotna on the Kenai peninsula while I was there for a few weeks. I lifted the entire rig more than once on the trip out in the boonies to rotate the tires

As for the motorcycle securing, I added 2 wheel chocks in the garage and some additional tie-down points that were more in the positions I needed them near the front of the garage (to pull the bikes forward). Also made some fuel jug mounts against the front garage wall a couple months ago.

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by Judge

You helped me 18-months ago by sending me those pics so I am forever greatful!...
...I'm not sure if the 2020 Spyders will fit in the 29H... according to the specs they are now a couple inches longer.

I'm just glad that I was able to help!
If those bikes grew more than about an inch... it's game over!