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Old 08-15-2018, 05:32 AM   #1
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Auto Gen Start Module (AGS)

I know this has been addressed here but I am not having luck locating.
Has anyone installed (or had it installed) the Auto Gen Start Module (AGS) for Cummins 4000?
It's on the 2018 Thor ACE model.
I believe I would like to have this if it's available.
Thanks in advance.
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Old 08-15-2018, 03:14 PM   #2
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This video shows the process for the install on a diesel, but only difference you would use the gas pigtail. Took him under 30 minutes, but then he works for Cummins.
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:03 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterrrr View Post
This video shows the process for the install on a diesel, but only difference you would use the gas pigtail. Took him under 30 minutes, but then he works for Cummins.
Thanks. This is helpful.
What I was hoping for is someone that could say,
"you need part number ###### and you can order it here....
Then see a video in more detail.
Thanks again.
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:23 PM   #4
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The Onan EC-30W has not been available since 2015. Some used and NOS units are available for $$$$, Xantrex and Magnum offer standalone AGS units. Wiring these units in could be a challenge.
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:53 PM   #5
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Arrow

Do you have the Magnum Inverter/Charger and ME-RC remote panel? If so, it easily is integrated with the generator thru it's AGS module, purchased separately, of course.

If not, the Cummins module should work just fine...probably an easy install as well... you'll need a wiring run to the batteries so that it can pick up the Voltage levels, and one to a Temp sensor/Thermostat for the temperature sensing.

here's Onan's EC30 remote panel unit
https://power.cummins.com/sites/defa.../900-0541B.pdf

Many coaches may already have the AGS module installed, yet don't necessarily come with a separate 'remote panel' to use with it, it would have manual controls right on the module itself.

We love our AGS, 'camping' wouldn't be the same without it!
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Old 08-15-2018, 10:59 PM   #6
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Don't have a clue. What ever is factory instl from THOR on the 2018 ACE.
The gen is; Onan RV QG 4000 Gas Generator
I would love to have the auto start when the shore power is loss.


Why would the unit no longer be available since 2015 and they still install the QG 4000 unit in 2017 / 18? Just curious.


Thanks.
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Old 08-15-2018, 11:49 PM   #7
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The EC-30W the wireless Energy Command was withdrawn, as it was unreliable because of interference from other wireless signals. Of course this is all based on hearsay as I have no actual knowledge. The EC-30 us still available but also expensive.
{Quote} Energy Command 30 (EC-30) is a very affordable option if you're purchasing a new RV, but it gets more expensive if you wish to add it to your existing vehicle. Connecting all the features of the EC-30 requires running wires from the air conditioner, transfer switch, house batteries, chassis batteries, safety input and generator back to the location of the control. Depending on the specific design of your RV and which features you wish to connect, it will take a technician 8 full hours [ @ $125+ per hour] to properly install an EC-30. If you're looking to purchase an EC-30 for your existing RV, have the dealer quote on installation as well so you know the full cost of adding this feature. Cummins Onan engineers do not recommend RV owners to attempt to install the EC-30 on their own as it requires knowledge of electrical codes to safely and correctly install all the wires.
Hope that explains it all.
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Old 08-16-2018, 12:03 AM   #8
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while you might have covered all the bases, I wouldnt assume that there is any connection to the air conditioner, only to either the thermostat, or via an external sensor placed in the coach, and theres no connection to the transfer switch or chassis batteries.
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Old 08-16-2018, 12:24 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beau388 View Post
The EC-30W the wireless Energy Command was withdrawn, as it was unreliable because of interference from other wireless signals. Of course this is all based on hearsay as I have no actual knowledge. The EC-30 us still available but also expensive.
{Quote} Energy Command 30 (EC-30) is a very affordable option if you're purchasing a new RV, but it gets more expensive if you wish to add it to your existing vehicle. Connecting all the features of the EC-30 requires running wires from the air conditioner, transfer switch, house batteries, chassis batteries, safety input and generator back to the location of the control. Depending on the specific design of your RV and which features you wish to connect, it will take a technician 8 full hours [ @ $125+ per hour] to properly install an EC-30. If you're looking to purchase an EC-30 for your existing RV, have the dealer quote on installation as well so you know the full cost of adding this feature. Cummins Onan engineers do not recommend RV owners to attempt to install the EC-30 on their own as it requires knowledge of electrical codes to safely and correctly install all the wires.
Hope that explains it all.

I understand. I will get the quote before saying let's do it.
Yes, the install time can be steep. The local CW dealer gets $175.00 per hour. I'll drive it else where for a better price.
I worked at the local Corp Aircraft Co for 40 years and they only charge $120.00 per hr for serv labor when I retired 3 years ago.
May be up a little now but I'll bet not $175.

Real SAD part is, you know the Aircraft Co will be great service
since everything is inspected several times.
Local CW serv STINKS. They hire Burger flippers and put
them working on the MH and nothing gets inspected.
Now that I know what kit # I need I'll start working on this.

Thanks for the info.
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Old 08-19-2018, 09:50 PM   #10
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I have installed EC-30 units on 2 of my motorhomes. It is as big a job as you’ve been told. But it is a really good addition once installed. These things are designed to be OEM installed, but can be DIY if you are willing to give it a couple of days. Get the pigtail connector and a whole bunch of wire.
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Old 08-21-2018, 04:19 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bowe View Post
I have installed EC-30 units on 2 of my motorhomes. It is as big a job as you’ve been told. But it is a really good addition once installed. These things are designed to be OEM installed, but can be DIY if you are willing to give it a couple of days. Get the pigtail connector and a whole bunch of wire.
Tom Bowe,
Any chance you can provide photos or video of what and how you did things?
Any personal notes taken?

I have called the local Cummings dealer and they tell me they have never installed one and suggested CW.
My local CW said they have never installed one and would not care to try.
SO, I'm stuck unless there is a CW with experience near Savannah, Ga.
I can drive a bit to get what I need.

Thanks.
PS: I see we are both in Ga. Any where near the South East?
If so, want to install another one? (GRIN)
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Old 08-21-2018, 01:22 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tupelo Kid View Post
Tom Bowe,
Any chance you can provide photos or video of what and how you did things?
Any personal notes taken?
.....
Thanks.
PS: I see we are both in Ga. Any where near the South East?
If so, want to install another one? (GRIN)
Sorry, I wouldn’t undertake this on anybody else’s coach. Too afraid of breaking something. Don’t have any photos, but I will PM my phone number if you’d like to discuss the installation.

Here is a link to the EC30 manual which is pretty clear as to how the wiring works.

https://power.cummins.com/sites/defa.../900-0541B.pdf
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Old 10-30-2018, 05:19 AM   #13
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bowe View Post
Sorry, I wouldn’t undertake this on anybody else’s coach. Too afraid of breaking something. Don’t have any photos, but I will PM my phone number if you’d like to discuss the installation.

Here is a link to the EC30 manual which is pretty clear as to how the wiring works.

https://power.cummins.com/sites/defa.../900-0541B.pdf
Tom Bowe,
Just a little update.
I do not yet have the AGS installed BUT I do finally have a good track
on a location to have it done.
I hope to be able to let you know how it turns out in a few weeks.
Thanks again Sir.
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Old 10-30-2018, 02:34 PM   #14
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Good to hear. Once installed, I prime and start the generator before setting the auto function. That way I am more assured that the generator will start before it gets too hot for the dog. As I recall it will try to start 3 times before giving up. Never had a failure since using this approach.
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Old 11-29-2018, 01:11 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bowe View Post
Good to hear. Once installed, I prime and start the generator before setting the auto function. That way I am more assured that the generator will start before it gets too hot for the dog. As I recall it will try to start 3 times before giving up. Never had a failure since using this approach.
Tom, (and others) here's an update:

A while back I posted for information about using the EC-30 for auto gen start.
I finally found an RV shop to install it. (that took forever)

(I called RV dealers and private RV shops from North Carolina to
Tampa Fla.)
Once installed the testing began.
It was discovered (at least for me) that this unit does not auto start when shore power is lost
the same as a stand by generator on your home. (if you have one)
It will only start if / when it has a “call” for use.
It was explained by the shop tech and the area Cummins rep
that when the A/C unit reaches the limit set by the thermostat
for cooling to begin the "call" is made for elect power and then the
gen will start. Once the A/C has cooled the coach to set temp the
generator will shot off. This is repeated over and over until shore
power is restored.
Obviously if I'm there, I will do a manual gen start and let it run.
It’s not the way I thought but will provide the same results to
protect the pups from heat if I am away.
Only problem I see is they could not test that part due to temp
in the shop being cold (bay doors open all day) so the A/C would
not come on even set as low as it would go.
They ran it through the settings and stated all is good. Time will tell.
If you have one of these and it operates different than they
explained please share.

If you chimed in with help in regards to this as many did THANK YOU.
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Old 11-29-2018, 01:45 AM   #16
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A hair dryer aimed at the thermostat should have been enough to fire up the genny (of course you'd have to use an extension cord out the coach for it since you wouldn't have 120V inside the coach).
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Old 11-29-2018, 01:30 PM   #17
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correct, the AGS is not designed to simply 'start' just because external 120v shore power is lost - it is designed to have the ability to start to Charge the House batteries should they fall below a SET level, and/or the ability to start on TEMPERATURE...

now, in order to 'mimic' the idea of a whole house generator starting on loss of shore power, you can simply set the AGS 'VOLTS' setting to it's highest setting... the higher the number, the quicker the AGS will trigger to start the generator...which may be fairly quickly if your coach only has two house batteries.
I'm giving you my experience with the Magnum AGS unit that I have in my coach, though it's probably very similar to the EC30 or others.

The TEMP setting is a little different, though, as yes, the actually temperature has to reach a certain point in order to trigger the AGS, though the lower the setting, the quicker and/or more often the AGS will be called the start the generator. The idea is that if you lose 120v shore power, and the inside temperature reaches your trigger Setting, it will start the generator, and the Air Conditioner(s), if in the 'ON' setting, will then come on, and run either the total of the 'RUN TIME' you have set(such as 30mins, 1hour, etc), or will continue to run if the inside TEMP is not yet reached your trigger Temp setting.
You could say that this would also apply to the Furnace, as you might be also concerned about COLD temps inside, but since the furnace runs off 12v from the House batteries, it's not anything the generator would have to power - THOUGH, as the 12v levels drop in the House batteries due to the furnace running, the AGS 'Volts' setting would then be available to crank the generator to keep the House battery levels adequate for overnight furnace runs while you are sleeping.

You'll want to also understand that the AGS will be in play, if Enabled, EVEN if you are on 120v active shore power... so even if you have power, but the batteries fall below the Volts setting, or the Temp rises above it's setting, the Generator WILL be asked to start, and it will then OVERRIDE external shore power, as your ATS will then use your generator's power rather than shore power, at least as long as the RUN TIME is set to allow it. Once the generator stops, the 120v shore power will then take over again.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The AGS is a powerful tool for RVing, giving you the ability to not only have a 'back up' power source if 120v external shore power is lost, but the ease-of-use of the automatic starting of the generator in keeping the House Batteries charged, and/or to power up your Air Conditioners when off-grid as the temperature rises inside, even while you are there.
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Old 11-29-2018, 01:50 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tupelo Kid View Post
Tom Bowe,
Just a little update. I do not yet have the AGS installed BUT I do finally have a good track on a location to have it done. I hope to be able to let you know how it turns out in a few weeks.
Thanks again Sir.
You don't say where you got it done or how much they charged??

Guessing there's a reason for that and it might be helpful to others here on the east coast?
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Old 12-04-2018, 02:43 AM   #19
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by RvEd View Post
You don't say where you got it done or how much they charged??

Guessing there's a reason for that and it might be helpful to others here on the east coast?
Reasonable enough to ask.

Highway RV Service located in Cairo, Georgia.
They are just a few miles above the Florida line above Tallahassee area.
It's a small family owned shop.
Well, they have 6 or 8 large bays to pull your MH into.
The employee at the front desk and the shop are another family.
I am very happy with their work. To have the auto gen start system installed was in
the neighborhood of $750.00 parts, shipping and labor.

I had to stay over night for them to finish the job due to them having
to wait for another part that was not shipped to them prior to my arrival.
I had a few other things taken care of while there.
They pulled my MH outside the shop when they closed should I need
the generator for any reason however, they hooked me up to shore
power and I had everything but potty dump and shower water.
I used water from the MH storage tank for that so I was in good shape.
It was getting towards sunset when they finished on the 2nd day
so they offered to let me hook up to shore power again for another
night so I could get a fresh start home the next morning.
I decided to head home. About a 5.5 hour drive in the MH
but I was home by midnight with food
and fuel stop.

My only issue was from the Cummins field rep from Florida.
He stopped by for a visit just as the testing started.
He had a very bad disposition and we didn't hit it off well.

However, this has nothing to do with the shop that did the install.
Again, I recommend them to anyone
that has a need for RV service.

Camping World could learn a lot from them.

Cummins rep's disposition and attitude will be taken up with someone from Cummins that cares.
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Old 12-06-2018, 05:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tupelo Kid View Post
Reasonable enough to ask.

Highway RV Service located in Cairo, Georgia.
They are just a few miles above the Florida line above Tallahassee area.
It's a small family owned shop.
Well, they have 6 or 8 large bays to pull your MH into.
The employee at the front desk and the shop are another family.
I am very happy with their work. To have the auto gen start system installed was in
the neighborhood of $990.00 parts, shipping and labor. UPDATED COST (WAS 700? ) I must have added this while sleep walking.

I had to stay over night for them to finish the job due to them having
to wait for another part that was not shipped to them prior to my arrival.
I had a few other things taken care of while there.
They pulled my MH outside the shop when they closed should I need
the generator for any reason however, they hooked me up to shore
power and I had everything but potty dump and shower water.
I used water from the MH storage tank for that so I was in good shape.
It was getting towards sunset when they finished on the 2nd day
so they offered to let me hook up to shore power again for another
night so I could get a fresh start home the next morning.
I decided to head home. About a 5.5 hour drive in the MH
but I was home by midnight with food
and fuel stop.

My only issue was from the Cummins field rep from Florida.
He stopped by for a visit just as the testing started.
He had a very bad disposition and we didn't hit it off well.

However, this has nothing to do with the shop that did the install.
Again, I recommend them to anyone
that has a need for RV service.

Camping World could learn a lot from them.

Cummins rep's disposition and attitude will be taken up with someone from Cummins that cares.
This too has been started. They (Cummins) do seriously care.
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