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Old 05-05-2019, 02:57 PM   #1
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Installing a AIMS 3000 Watt Inverter/Charger in a Vegas.

I was looking at different options for an inverter and ended up settling on a 3000 Watt Inverter. I have a 25.2 vegas and there is no room behind the fuse panel for the 1200 watt that I saw lots of videos for. The space beside it has the furnace. I do have a sofa bed in mine with lots of room beside the water tank. I even have room for 2-4 lithium batteries in the future. I found the transfer switch under the stove. I was planning to go from the transfer switch, under the floor than back up under the sofa. Does anyone have any advice for drilling through the floor and how to seal the holes?
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Old 05-05-2019, 03:36 PM   #2
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Just a note here a 3000 watt inverter needs at least a 4/0 cable size. The transfer relay wouldnít be able to take that kind of current and is probably wired with a lot smaller gauge.
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Old 05-05-2019, 04:14 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Trkyte@msn.com View Post
Just a note here a 3000 watt inverter needs at least a 4/0 cable size. The transfer relay wouldnít be able to take that kind of current and is probably wired with a lot smaller gauge.
3,000 watts is 25 amps @ 120 volts which is fine for a 30 amp transfer switch. 3,000 amps @ 12.2 volts is 246 amps 0000 or 4/0 can carry 195 amps when the conductor is 60 C degrees and 260 amps when the conductor is at 90 C degrees. These are open run temperatures. If the wire is in conduit the amperage ratings will be lower. Handling anything larger than 2/0 welding cable is very difficult and heavy
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Old 05-05-2019, 06:00 PM   #4
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THOR #14969
120V side:
It looks like at 120 Volts A/C, the 10 Gauge wire from the transfer switch to the inverter than from the inverter to the circuit panel should do the trick.

12V side:
This is where things get trickier. Since I am planning on installing lithium batteries right beside the inverter, I am estimating that I will need less than 4 feet of cable from the inverter to the batteries and back, which looks like 4 guage will work. I could use 2 guage if I wanted more insurance policy. It appears that the length of cable can play major factor.

I am referencing this link to determine which gauge of wire to use.
12 Volt Wiring: Wire Gauge to Amps | Offroaders.com

I am open to suggestions and feedback. Is there a favorite Lithium batter out there?
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Old 05-05-2019, 06:20 PM   #5
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I installed a 2000 watt Xantrex a few years back to support a residential fridge and a few outlets. The wire gauge and length between the battery bank and the inverter is critical. Can't over stress this.

My first installation attempt was, well let's just say less than adequate. Cables were too small and the length too long. The fridge start surge peaks at around 1500 watts @ 12VDC for few seconds and would cause a fault at the inverter due to a DC voltage drop. Ended up moving the inverter for as short as possible cable run and boosted cable size to 4/0.

Your second consideration is ventilation. The higher the power demand you have the hotter the unit is going to run. Bury it somewhere with limited airflow and it will probably shut down at some point. There may also came a time you'll need to reset the output AC breaker so easy access needs to be factored in.

Drilling thru the floor isn't a problem but you have to carefully plan where you are drilling regarding what you might hit once thru the floor. Hole size will depend on the DC cable size you intend to use. Two small holes are easier to seal than one big hole. Expanding foam works so will butyl tape.

Good luck and what do you plan to operate that needs 3000 watts@120VAC? My 2000 watts is overkill for a small residential fridge but I got a really good price for the inverter.
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Old 05-05-2019, 07:14 PM   #6
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When I called AIMS, they suggested that I needed 3000 watts. Also, my wife has bad allergies, so I needed something to support the A/C when pollin is high. Thank you for suggesting the ventilation. The location I have in mind has adequite ventilation, but it would not take much to signifantly increase the ventilation in that location. How long of a DC cable run do you have with your 4/0 cables?
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Old 05-05-2019, 10:18 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by symchuk View Post
When I called AIMS, they suggested that I needed 3000 watts...........I needed something to support the A/C when pollen is high.
Running the Coleman Mach AC unit with an inverter? WOW

Read this article.
It's possible, but not without limitations

off-grid-solar-rv-air-conditioning

Here's another article...

solar-rv-air-conditioning/
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Old 05-05-2019, 10:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by symchuk View Post
I was looking at different options for an inverter and ended up settling on a 3000 Watt Inverter. I have a 25.2 vegas and there is no room behind the fuse panel for the 1200 watt that I saw lots of videos for. The space beside it has the furnace. I do have a sofa bed in mine with lots of room beside the water tank. I even have room for 2-4 lithium batteries in the future. I found the transfer switch under the stove. I was planning to go from the transfer switch, under the floor than back up under the sofa. Does anyone have any advice for drilling through the floor and how to seal the holes?
We actually installed our AIMS 1200 behind the WFCO CONVERTER in our 25.2. We built a wooden frame and installed it horizontally instead of vertically the way it seems everyone with other VEGAS models have.

Not sure how much larger the 3000 is over the 1200, but the 1200 fit with room on all four sides.
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Old 05-06-2019, 11:05 AM   #9
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My cable run is may be four feet. I probably didn't need 4/0 cable but I was down to days before departing for two weeks on vacation to get the fridge working off the inverter and could risk a third configuration.

Run time of a roof A/C off batteries, even lithium, is problematic and your time on the inverter is not going to be very long even with a 13.5 BTU roof A/C. Run the energy number see how long the system will support the A/C and don't forget to include maybe as much as a 10% penalty for system losses.

And the the Wynns, who by the way no longer RV, are probably better at advising wine to food pairing then concerning the care and feeding of an RV. Not understanding just how high the surge load of an A/C compressor is against the capacity of the inverter is just the first example.
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Old 05-06-2019, 12:19 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Mo_Mike View Post
We actually installed our AIMS 1200 behind the WFCO CONVERTER in our 25.2. We built a wooden frame and installed it horizontally instead of vertically the way it seems everyone with other VEGAS models have.

Not sure how much larger the 3000 is over the 1200, but the 1200 fit with room on all four sides.
Do you have a picture of how you mounted your AIMS 1200? The cables behind my WFCO converter are all very tight that nothing wants to move, plus I have hoses from the furnace going through that space as well. The AIMS 1200 was longer than the 3000. The 3000 is more of a box.
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Old 05-06-2019, 12:26 PM   #11
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Yeah It will take a lot of money and room to make the AC work on battery for any significant time.... but it could be done.

We run our genny all day long (to run AC unit) when its hot outside and we are off the grid. I cant justify a big solar/battery system for my needs just to run the AC.

What about using an air purifier? Would that help with alergys if its not too hot outside? It could run off of a much smaller system.

Let us know how it turns out and post some pictures.
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Old 05-06-2019, 10:44 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by symchuk View Post
Do you have a picture of how you mounted your AIMS 1200? The cables behind my WFCO converter are all very tight that nothing wants to move, plus I have hoses from the furnace going through that space as well. The AIMS 1200 was longer than the 3000. The 3000 is more of a box.
Can't believe I didn't take a picture (I normally take pictures upon pictures)

On ours, I pulled out the WFCO converter. The wires feeding the back of the CONVERTER were cable tied to a wooden cross support. We cut the cable tie holding the cables, which gave us more flexibility (and room)

We built a wooden "H", screwed to the cross member referenced above and a another cross support toward the back of the compartment.( on the vertical legs of the "H")

The inverter sits on top of the "H", so there is plenty of air space on all sides.

On ours the USE/STORE relay is attached to the front of the same cross member referenced above. We attached a 4guage wire to the RELAY then to the INVERTER ( with a 150 amp breaker inline)

Wasn't the most "fun" place to work, but have been in tighter places.
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Old 05-07-2019, 02:59 PM   #13
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I would go with MO Mike's suggestion. He has the SAME exact floor plan as yours. I guess you will need to measure yours since its larger than the 1200 watt we have.
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Old 05-07-2019, 05:31 PM   #14
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I have a question........anybody know the watts that a rv refrig pulls on ac?
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Old 05-07-2019, 05:36 PM   #15
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That was talked about recently in another tread I think.

Depends on which frig you have.

If you have the propane/electic unit (Small) it like 35 watts an hours? (Not much). But the larger residental frig is more - esp when its hot outside.

Im sure someone will chime in with the correct answer or do a search on some recent threads.
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Old 05-07-2019, 06:26 PM   #16
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My norcold list 300 W on the label
But, It’s not always pulling 300 W
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Old 05-07-2019, 07:23 PM   #17
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Well maybe I was thinking 35 "amps"... your would be around 25 amps. Thats sounds about right. But like you said its not always on at night or when cooler outside.

But is that in full electric mode? Must be. I bet its a lot less when on propane. Might be 35 watt with propane?
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Old 05-07-2019, 08:42 PM   #18
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Powering an air conditioner from an inverter is not only possible, it's done all the time. However, itís not easy. The math is simple.

Aims inverters are rated up to 3X instantaneous power, which means it can supply up to 9,000 watts for a few seconds to start the A/C. However, just do the math and see how many Amps it takes to produce 9,000 Watts at 12 Volts. Fortunately, most newer A/Cs donít need 9,000 Watts during start-up, but if inverter had to supply that much due to other loads, youíd be looking at needing close to 1,000 Amps during lock-rotor A/C start-up.

Anyway, once running, the best 13,500 BTU/hr air conditioners use just over 1,000 watts at standard operating temperatures, so need to figure on at least 1,200 watts feeding inverter. Thatís 100 Amps from battery.

So if you want 3 hours of air conditioning, you need at least 300 Amp-hours of useable battery capacity. At 50% discharge, thatís much more than 600 Amp-hours of battery capacity because itís being discharged way faster than standard 20-hour rate.

Solar recharging of batteries if running A/C all day are for the most part academic discussions. Youíd need something crazy like about 5,000 Watts of solar panels to run a 1,000-Watt A/C round the clock. Itís so much Iíve never wasted the time estimating it.
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Old 05-07-2019, 09:12 PM   #19
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Yeah good luck finding room for 50 - 100 watt panels on top of an Axis / Vegas. LOL.

It would take like 6 batteries for 3 hours of AC run time. Personally I dont want to waste our limited space with batteries in such a small RV for such little run time.

But to each his own I guess.
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Old 05-07-2019, 11:11 PM   #20
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Aims inverters are rated up to 3X instantaneous power, which means it can supply up to 9,000 watts for a few seconds to start the A/C. However, just do the math and see how many Amps it takes to produce 9,000 Watts at 12 Volts. Fortunately, most newer A/Cs donít need 9,000 Watts during start-up, but if inverter had to supply that much due to other loads, youíd be looking at needing close to 1,000 Amps during lock-rotor A/C start-up.
You are forgetting what happens when you ask a deep cycle to produce 600 amps or so. The reason they are deep cycle is because they have thick plates with very little surface area as compared to dual use or starting batteries. Ask a CG-2 deep cycle to produce more than 50 amps and the voltage will drop precipitously. In my golf cart with 8 - 6 volt CG-2 deep cycle, with fully charged batteries, max acceleration is the amperage draw is 540 amps @ 42.0 volts volts (3.0 hp -2.2 kw). That figures to 10.5 volts for a battery pair. That will cause a low voltage shutdown on most inverters.
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