Inverter

[thor293]

If you are going to wire through breaker box be sure to install transfer switch, otherwise you may very well shoot 240v through your outlets and burn up everything turned on.
I have done a bit of dry camping out in the Quartzsite desert and used a bank of 640 watts of solar to power 6 six volt batteries wired in series to make 3 12v units. Provided all the electricity I needed during the day, very seldom did I ever have to run the generator.

I wired my transfer switch that the Solar would be the main power source and if it didn't see that it defaulted to the shore power.

[herbifico]

Originally Posted by Gearhead

I have a 2015 Thor Challenger 37ND. It came with a Xantex Pro XM1800 Modified Sine Wave inverter with two house batteries. The first thing I did before we took delivery was to have the dealer add two additional batteries.

This inverter has a built in transfer switch and a remote monitor panel with an off/on switch. It automatically transfer when shore or generator power is available.

The only problem I see with this inverter is that it could do damage to the refrig. & other electronics. The first thing I did was contact Thor customer care to question the use of a Modified Sine Wave inverter to run the 110 volt Whirlpool refrigerator (Per Whirlpool this refrig. requires pure sine wave power), it has a motor that could be damaged with the use of modified sine wave power. Thor had no interest in correcting this issue. Hope for them there is no problems. I have a 7 year warranty.

We have left the refrigerator running for several days and the four batteries have not had any problems keeping up. It was well worth the effort to add the two additional batteries.

We are planning on buying just the model Challenger that you have, so that was great to find out about its inverter. I would also like to find out the model charger/converter it has. My idea is to see about changing both the inverter and the converter/charger after purchasing the Challenger 37ND. I would replaced the inverter with a pure sine wave 2000 watt. If it had a one stage converter/charger, I'd like to replace it with a 4 stage device that would charge the battery up to 100% rather than just 70%. Any further info you have on your motorhome would be greatly appreciated.

[FW28z]

Originally Posted by blw2

Airventure?

No, it was an airshow in the local area.

I have been wanting to get back down to Dayton, OH for the airshow - which I think is one of the best in the country. But they do not allow on-site RV camping, which makes it a hassle.

So much more relaxing to camp at the show grounds for a couple of days.

I have been thinking it would be neat to go to the Oshkosh fly-in at some point for their air show, as they offer RV camping.

I am not a pilot, although being ex-Air Force, I do like aviation.

[thor293]

If you guys are wiring in your main electrical panel a couple things to remember is to turn off the breaker for the converter or else it will kick on to try and charge itself with the batteries
We all know perpetual charging won't work, it will run the batteries down pretty quick. Also no more propane than the fridge uses I always ran mine that way as to save the batteries trying to run on electric and turning off the breaker that powers the AC to keep it from accidently kicking on. Make sure the electric option on the water heater is off. I have always used a 2000watt zantrex inverter and use to power it with (6) 6v batteries wired in series and parallel. Charged them with 540 watt of solar. While in the south west desert it was very seldom I ever had t run a generator to catch batteries up. We spent about 3 months in quartzsite.
If you are going to do and serious long term dry camping invest in a battery monitor, you program in your amp hours and it will track the actual state of the batteries like a gas gage. If you have incoming solar it subtracts that from your load and displays the positive or negative amount of battery usage.

[Gearhead]

Hi Herbifico I will be happy to answer your questions, but first VERY important, as has been stated in this thread, unless you are well versed in AC circuity this job is best left for a professional. You can do serious damage to your unit.

The inverter installed in my Challenger is a Xantex Pro XM-1800 (Modified Sine Wave) with a built in automatic transfer switch and a remote control panel. I am using a Sunforce 2000 watt pure sine wave with an external automatic transfer switch. For the inverter a 30 amp switch is enough. I used the existing wiring than goes the the factory installed inverter. No need to re-invent the wheel. So far all is good. I do not know that much about Sunforce products. The output is pure sine wave

Before you start any work for SAFETY you MUST remove shore power & the house battery negative connection.

As for the charger/converter, Thor installed a single stage unit. I will be replacing it in the future with a four stage. For me I like the charger/converter separate from the inverter. One thing I have done, is to move the charger/converter. Thor installed it under the bed and when you are running the lights or anything DC the fan in the charger runs. That was too noisey for me. I purchased a 12" x 12" water tight electrical box and mounted the charger outside under the bed. You MUST make some air holes to vent the heat from the charger fan. Be sure and put screen over the holes to keep the critters out :-). BTW getting to the charger/converter is fun. You have to extend the bed slide about half way & remove the cover at the foot end of the bed support. Here you will find the charger & the easy camp control box.

Good luck with everything. Jerry

[Gearhead]

Hi thor293 the the challenger models have AC only fridges so gas is not an option. The only thing I use gas for is the heater. We have induction plates for cooking, that keeps the heat down in the coach & eliminates gas. Works great. I am looking for a stove top version so I can eliminate the gas burners.

Quartzsite is a cool place. We use to live in Phoenix & Tucson, love AZ will be there later this year.

[Gearhead]

Herbifico if you are a Goodsam member, I just got a notification they have a TRC50 automatic switch for $118 that is a good price.

[EA37TS]

For those interested, if you are an FMCA member, the Family Motor Coaching magazine had a lengthy article, with detailed instructions, on how to install an inverter. You call find the article on-line in one of their archived magazines.

[thor293]

Originally Posted by Gearhead

Hi thor293 the the challenger models have AC only fridges so gas is not an option. The only thing I use gas for is the heater. We have induction plates for cooking, that keeps the heat down in the coach & eliminates gas. Works great. I am looking for a stove top version so I can eliminate the gas burners.

Quartzsite is a cool place. We use to live in Phoenix & Tucson, love AZ will be there later this year.

I was not aware they were using some electric only fridges. :-/ the induction stove stop is a great idea. We have a couple of the plate but the wife seldom uses them. Out of sight out of mind I guess.

[Gearhead]

The only thing with the induction plates is that you must use a steel bottom pan or pot. But that is a minor thing. My wife loves them after she got over the initial learning phase.

With the inverter & four (4) batteries there is not a problem. the fridge does not use that much current & with AGS there is no worry. I ran for 6 days without needing the gen. But we don't do that much boondocking.

[Gearhead]

Thanks Dstankov I will check it out.

[Ron]

It goes to show you that there are many ways to do things. I think Pocowok's installation is a superb idea! Kudos! But if you are a tight-wad like me there are some ways to get around buying a ton of equipment and still safely install your inverter. Pocowok is correct in saying that you want your inverter as close as possible to your batteries. This is because DC current requires larger gauge wire the farther it has to run. I found that the cheapest 4ga. wire is just a pair of jumper cables from the local auto supply. Cut off the clamps and crimp on ring connectors and wah-lah! Cheap inverter kit. Or if you want, you can leave the cable's battery clams on the battery side and then you have an easy way to disconnect your inverter if you want to. I used an ordinary 110volt three prong plug and pig-tail to run the AC current from my inverter (it has outlets on it) to a 4X4 junction box I mounted in the bin where my inverter is located. From there it is connected to 12-2 romex and the AC current travels under the coach and then up through the floor into the cabinet that contains the circuit breaker box. AC can travel greater distances without the problems DC has (as Tesla knew and Edison discovered later).

The transfer switch idea is the ultimate in fool-proofing your system but it is just a switch (and expensive). I did a similar thing with a 3-way wall switch from Home Depot. I took the downstream wire off the circuit breaker that ran most of the outlets that I was interested in powering with my inverter and attached that wire to the hot connection of the 3-way switch. Then ran one of the other two (switched) connections on the 3-way switch back to the circuit breaker. Then I connected the third connection of the 3-way switch to the inverter. Flipped one way the circuit ran off shore or Generator like it used to but flipped the other way, the circuit ran off the inverter. You don't want to run your entire system through a small switch like this but they are rated for at least 15 amps or more ... good enough for one 15 amp circuit containing the outlets you may want to power off your inverter. This worked as expected but I found that my little inverter was way under-powered. A coffee pot draws 900 watts. The circuit that I wired into also ran the refer and TV, which I didn't realize until later. It was too much for my little 700 watt inverter. I have since bought a 2300 Watt Modified Sine wave inverter and am waiting to try it out. Also, I decided to power only one dedicated outlet in the coach. I may go back to the switch idea but for now, we only use the inverter to run the coffee pot and a crock pot while traveling down the road. It seems Thor puts weird combinations of things on their electrical circuits like the outlet in the kitchen is on the same circuit as the bedroom outlets (which is fine) and the outlet up by the co-pilot seat (which is fine) but it's also shared by the refer, microwave and TV which I don't want to run off my inverter. One outlet in the kitchen area is sufficient for us.

As far as modified vs. pure sine wave...You can't go wrong with pure sine wave but it is way more expensive and you may not need it. If you are running a motor (like a residential refer) then you may want a pure sine wave. An absorption refer doesn't need a pure sine wave because there's no motor in it, just a heating element. I run my refer off propane when not hooked to shore power anyway. A crock pot or coffee maker certainly doesn't need pure sine wave. For my iPhones and iPad, I charge with DC (cigar lighter) since that's what they run on anyway...why invert DC to AC and then use the adaptor to invert back to DC which is what your device needs to charge itself?

[herbifico]

Originally Posted by Gearhead

I have a 2015 Thor Challenger 37ND. It came with a Xantex Pro XM1800 Modified Sine Wave inverter with two house batteries. The first thing I did before we took delivery was to have the dealer add two additional batteries.

This inverter has a built in transfer switch and a remote monitor panel with an off/on switch. It automatically transfer when shore or generator power is available.

The only problem I see with this inverter is that it could do damage to the refrig. & other electronics. The first thing I did was contact Thor customer care to question the use of a Modified Sine Wave inverter to run the 110 volt Whirlpool refrigerator (Per Whirlpool this refrig. requires pure sine wave power), it has a motor that could be damaged with the use of modified sine wave power. Thor had no interest in correcting this issue. Hope for them there is no problems. I have a 7 year warranty.

We have left the refrigerator running for several days and the four batteries have not had any problems keeping up. It was well worth the effort to add the two additional batteries.

I was watching a video put out by Total Value RV about a 2016 Challenger model they got in. The narrator described the refrigerator as running off of a "pure sine inverter". He could have said "pro sine inverter", but even if he did the Xantrex "Pro Sine inverter" is a pure sine wave inverter. Since we are in the market for a Thor Challenger, it makes a big difference if the new models have a pure sine wave inverter or the modified sine wave inverter that the 2015s had. I would really like to know if the 2016s actually do have the pure sine wave inverter or not.

[Iceman55]

Originally Posted by Ron

It goes to show you that there are many ways to do things. I think Pocowok's installation is a superb idea! Kudos! But if you are a tight-wad like me there are some ways to get around buying a ton of equipment and still safely install your inverter. Pocowok is correct in saying that you want your inverter as close as possible to your batteries. This is because DC current requires larger gauge wire the farther it has to run. I found that the cheapest 4ga. wire is just a pair of jumper cables from the local auto supply. Cut off the clamps and crimp on ring connectors and wah-lah! Cheap inverter kit. Or if you want, you can leave the cable's battery clams on the battery side and then you have an easy way to disconnect your inverter if you want to. I used an ordinary 110volt three prong plug and pig-tail to run the AC current from my inverter (it has outlets on it) to a 4X4 junction box I mounted in the bin where my inverter is located. From there it is connected to 12-2 romex and the AC current travels under the coach and then up through the floor into the cabinet that contains the circuit breaker box. AC can travel greater distances without the problems DC has (as Tesla knew and Edison discovered later).

The transfer switch idea is the ultimate in fool-proofing your system but it is just a switch (and expensive). I did a similar thing with a 3-way wall switch from Home Depot. I took the downstream wire off the circuit breaker that ran most of the outlets that I was interested in powering with my inverter and attached that wire to the hot connection of the 3-way switch. Then ran one of the other two (switched) connections on the 3-way switch back to the circuit breaker. Then I connected the third connection of the 3-way switch to the inverter. Flipped one way the circuit ran off shore or Generator like it used to but flipped the other way, the circuit ran off the inverter. You don't want to run your entire system through a small switch like this but they are rated for at least 15 amps or more ... good enough for one 15 amp circuit containing the outlets you may want to power off your inverter. This worked as expected but I found that my little inverter was way under-powered. A coffee pot draws 900 watts. The circuit that I wired into also ran the refer and TV, which I didn't realize until later. It was too much for my little 700 watt inverter. I have since bought a 2300 Watt Modified Sine wave inverter and am waiting to try it out. Also, I decided to power only one dedicated outlet in the coach. I may go back to the switch idea but for now, we only use the inverter to run the coffee pot and a crock pot while traveling down the road. It seems Thor puts weird combinations of things on their electrical circuits like the outlet in the kitchen is on the same circuit as the bedroom outlets (which is fine) and the outlet up by the co-pilot seat (which is fine) but it's also shared by the refer, microwave and TV which I don't want to run off my inverter. One outlet in the kitchen area is sufficient for us.

As far as modified vs. pure sine wave...You can't go wrong with pure sine wave but it is way more expensive and you may not need it. If you are running a motor (like a residential refer) then you may want a pure sine wave. An absorption refer doesn't need a pure sine wave because there's no motor in it, just a heating element. I run my refer off propane when not hooked to shore power anyway. A crock pot or coffee maker certainly doesn't need pure sine wave. For my iPhones and iPad, I charge with DC (cigar lighter) since that's what they run on anyway...why invert DC to AC and then use the adaptor to invert back to DC which is what your device needs to charge itself?

WOW you did a lot of great work!
I have a 2006 Thor 31D, and it either has no inverter, or mine is not working. Is there a factory inverter on the 2006 Thor 31D? You did not mention replacing one in your description of mods.

Thanks.

[Iceman55]

Ron,
Did the Thor 31D come with any inverter from the factory?


Thanks,
Doug.

[Ron]

ICEMAN55, I don't know if your Thor came with an inverter...Mine did not. Since my earlier post, I disconnected the switch I had installed and reinstalled a 110 outlet for my inverter. Running my entire coach off the inverter caused too many problems. I need to be very selective on what I run off the inverter while boondocking because of battery limitations and inverter size so I decided to just have one outlet that is connected to the inverter making it easy to know what is running off the inverter. Also, I upgraded to a 2,000 watt inverter making it possible to run a coffee pot while driving and/or a crockpot. Those are really the only things I need 110v for while driving or boondocking. If I need the microwave or A/C, the generator must be used anyway.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by FW28z

If you want installation information, some owner's manuals are quite detailed in their installation. Xantrex for example makes some really nice RV inverters, and here is an owner's manual showing very detailed installation information (these particular inverters are 1Kw to 1.8Kw):

http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Pow...ork)%20(1).pdf


Here is the Xantrex website:

Power Inverter, Marine Inverter, PRO Series Inverter

You will still have the battery issue to contend with though, even with a 1kw load.

Also, you will have to ensure the converter (essentially the battery charger) in your power panel is turned off, otherwise the inverter will try to charge the batteries, which will try to power the converter... resulting in an endless loop of discharge.

Hard wiring an inverter into a RV's AC/DC system is something probably best done by a shop that is adept to doing these installations, as it can become quite complex... far more complex than using a portable inverter.

As discussed in other threads, I'm surprised that more inverter/chargers aren't used when supplied from factory in new motorhomes. If nothing else it simplifies 12-Volt DC wiring and prevents the "endless loop" discharging of batteries that you describe above.

[Iceman55]

Thanks a lot Ron. I now know I do not have an inverter, and am looking at an install. Glad you don't charge for fantastic advice!


Doug.