"Thinking Outside the Box" Wheel/Tire swap on Vegas

[Whirnot]

It is the load rating, not the size that determines capacity. Other than looks you have only accomplished changing the engineered geometry of the front end and screwed up the speedometer.

[Metalman]

One reason why we didn't buy a Vegas was the puny size of those wheels. If they had one set up like gmtech16450yz, we might have a Vegas instead of a Windsport.

I have been looking desirably at the longer motor homes that use 22.5 inch wheels like we had on our diesel pusher. I'd love to be able to change the wheels on the Windsport to 22.5 the inch size.

I understand the situation when doing things outside the box. I have been riding motorcycles on the "darkside" (car tire on the back) for ten years and have been the subject of many unkind remarks and predictions of disaster. I am still in one piece and so are my motorcycles.

[rvtravel]

Originally Posted by gmtech16450yz

Haha.

Ok the first thing my wife and I noticed the very first time we saw a Vegas was the wimpy little tires. The next thing we noticed was how retarded the front wheels looked being half a foot inside the width of the body. My wife couldn't wait for me to get rid of the tires and put something safer and stronger on it. I certainly wasn't looking forward to changing them on the side of the road when they blew out from being too small.

So I finally got around to doing it. The end result will be (should be) better gas mileage, higher load capacity, far better handling, less tire noise, drastically reduced chance of blow-outs, way better brake cooling, less stress on the entire chassis, less unsprung weight and finally better looks. The downsides? Cost and some labor on my part.

Here's the part that's a little outside the box... The front wheels. They're what would come on an F350 without duals. All the tires are 235/85/16's, Michelin XPS Ribs. They're about 1.5 inches taller than the stock 225/75/16's. The wheels are Alcoa forged aluminum, 16x6 in back and 16x7 in front.

The reasons for using the SRW fronts? First of all, the offset is a little over 4" difference. That means I widened the track by almost 9"! Another reason is the fact that the SRW wheels are stronger. The load and max air pressure ratings are higher than the rear duals. The biggest difference is that the duals are hub centered and the singles are stud centered. That means I had to use tapered lug nuts on the front wheels, not a big deal.

So what happens if I get a flat? The rear duals will still fit on the front, I can pull one off the rear and put it on the front if I get a front flat. If I get a rear flat, I'd just run one wheel on one side anyway. The front wheels would actually fit and work fine on the rear also, since they're meant to be used on the same full floating axle.

The hardest part of the swap was enlarging the front wheel wells. (The taller tires fit fine on the rear.) I literally took a sawzall to the body! That was fine with me since the front wheel wells were too small anyway. After massaging the wheel wells, the taller front tires set out 4+ inches further out clear fine. And it looks "normal" now instead of looking like a Class A from the '80's.

I've actually only finished the one side, I need to do the other side before I can give a ride/drive report. I think the combination of a taller tire, but one that is stiffer overall will end up being a wash ride-wise. Rolling resistance should be WAY less. Road/tire noise should also be way less. The Alcoa wheels with the way heavier XPS tires are actually 3lbs LESS than the stock steel wheels with lighter/smaller tires and wheel covers. Winding road handling and heavy wind control should be greatly improved. I can't wait to try it out! If nothing else, I know I've drastically reduced my chances of being on the side of the road with a blown-out tire.

Pics in next post...

I'd be very interested in hearing about how the coach handles with the new tires.

[gmtech16450yz]

Originally Posted by Whirnot

It is the load rating, not the size that determines capacity. Other than looks you have only accomplished changing the engineered geometry of the front end and screwed up the speedometer.

Actually the max load rating does change with size changes on many tires. I posted the specs of the original and replacement tires. The stock 225/75/16 tires had a max load of 2,680. The ones I put on it, 235/85/16, have a max load of 3,042. Size did determine capacity. BTW, the front wheels I put on are also stronger than stock. They have a higher max load rating and also a higher max PSI rating.

The "engineering geometry" of the Ford twin I beam front end isn't that great and could use some "changing". lol. It's strong, but extremely poor as far as alignment and wheel movement angles. The industry has known all about it's shortcomings for about 6 decades.

My speedo and VSS input to the ECM is calibrated to within +/- .1 mph @ 70 mph. The stock speedo on most E350 and E450 RV's is usually 3-5 mph off. If your RV has a stock, uncalibrated speedo, I can guarantee you that mine is more accurate. I'll post a screenshot of the onboard computer in my Vegas. The speed values on the left side of the screen are from the ECM/VSS/Cluster. The value on the right side is off a GPS. They are dead on the same up to 80mph.

This ain't my first rodeo.


.

[gmtech16450yz]

Originally Posted by rvtravel

I'd be very interested in hearing about how the coach handles with the new tires.

The ride and handling is night and day different. And better in every way. The ride is smoother, quieter, WAY more stable, less wandering, corners better and rolls easier resulting in better gas mileage. The coach is a different vehicle than what I bought 9 months ago.

As my wife said it, this might be the best mod out of about a hundred major mods I've done to my Vegas. And it cost way less and had a better outcome than the Rickson 17" alternative to boot.

[Lbatt]

Being a newbie, and having looked around before buying my 2017 ACE 27.2, I thought the Vega and Axis and ACE were all about the same other than interior finish and some accessories. We liked the AXIS as it had the European interior cupboards, exterior TV, etc., very NICE where the ACE is just "ordinary". But the Axis was much pricier, too.

But my ACE has 245X70X19.5 Goodyear RV Tires. They don't all come with these?

[Metalman]

Lbatt
Can you post a photo of your RV showing the wheels and tires?
Thanks

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Lbatt

Being a newbie, and having looked around before buying my 2017 ACE 27.2, I thought the Vega and Axis and ACE were all about the same other than interior finish and some accessories. We liked the AXIS as it had the European interior cupboards, exterior TV, etc., very NICE where the ACE is just "ordinary". But the Axis was much pricier, too.

But my ACE has 245X70X19.5 Goodyear RV Tires. They don't all come with these?

Axis/Vegas is on an E350/450 van chassis (think Class C).
ACE is on an F53 truck chassis' 19.5" wheels are the norm.

Axis/Vegas is an RUV: a cross between a Class C and a Class A.
ACE is Class A.

The only "same" about them is they are all made by Thor. Even the front beds above the cab are different.

[Long & Winding road]

Originally Posted by Lbatt

But my ACE has 245X70X19.5 Goodyear RV Tires. They don't all come with these?

No, 16 inch rim on the E350/450 base units (Class C/Vegas/Axis). Then the 19.5 on the Ace/Hurricane/ Then 22.5 on the larger units (Challengers etc.).

The small rim IMO has two advantages - Lighter to manhandle if your a do it yourself like me (change flats or brake job), and cheaper cost per a tire

But lowers the ride height - which is good and bad - should handle better being lower? I know my Axis handles good (but thats after my swaybar/track arm/Saftey steer mods).

Should have better MPG? (Debatable). Bad because you might hit something on road or off road in rugged campsite? So far not a problem for me but I can see where it could be for some folks.

But the say the larger diameters hanle rough roads better (Smoother).

Just pick the RV you like the best, Never pay sticker price (Try to get 30 - 40 % off of sticker) and enjoy.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Metalman

I understand the situation when doing things outside the box. I have been riding motorcycles on the "darkside" (car tire on the back) for ten years and have been the subject of many unkind remarks and predictions of disaster. I am still in one piece and so are my motorcycles.

Car tire works for straight-liners nicely. Try to stand the bike up with heavy acceleration at the apex; then they are unsafe/deadly...

[Metalman]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Car tire works for straight-liners nicely. Try to stand the bike up with heavy acceleration at the apex; then they are unsafe/deadly...

Nope, my bikes accelerate fine out of the curves. (M109R, 1800F VTX, 1800S VTX, ST-1300, 1800 Gold Wing all with car tires) However, I do not race any them.