Tampa RV Supershow is this week!

[Chance]

I’m curious if you guys go to show with specific items you’re interested in evaluating in order to buy, or is it more like window shopping hoping something jumps out and says “buy me”.


At Tampa I want to see if there are any small, narrow, and low-profile Class B+ or C motorhomes that can function almost like a van, but with a bit more space. I doubt it, but want to rule it out.

In addition to checking out new electrical and power technologies, I’m particularly interested to see if any manufacturer is building on the Ford SRW E-350 (other than Sportsmobile with their faux van body and 4WD).

It’d be great if Ford had the new Transit and or E-Series chassis at the show, but it’s probably a little too early. For us if it’s not a ProMaster van, it’ll likely be a Ford Cutaway no longer than about 24 feet. Realistically, I expect 99% of Show to be same old designs and very little innovation.

[Mr Sunshine]

Originally Posted by Chance

I’m curious if you guys go to show with specific items you’re interested in evaluating in order to buy, or is it more like window shopping hoping something jumps out and says “buy me”.

I have gone to this and other shows shopping for my next RV, but as long as our 2016 Vegas holds up and fits our needs, I'm more interested in accessories and destinations.

Hope you find what you've been looking for. I'm guessing you'll have to build it!

[16ACE27]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF6O4OSRlK8

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Mr Sunshine

I have gone to this and other shows shopping for my next RV, but as long as our 2016 Vegas holds up and fits our needs, I'm more interested in accessories and destinations.

Hope you find what you've been looking for. I'm guessing you'll have to build it!

That’s what my wife wants because she knows I’d enjoy designing and building a camper van, but I don’t have the time or space to do it at present. It’s unfortunate because with high-roof vans, the Internet and Amazon it’s probably easier than ever before to build one. And she probably figures it’s the easiest way to get a bathroom with a separate shower in a 21-ft van.

Yeah, we’ve talked about it but it’s not practical; at least for the next few years.

[The Gritz Carlton]

Remember...you can always get the same deal and price anytime...not just at the show. They will try to make you think otherwise. Dealers have to purchase every RV from the manufacturer at the point of delivery to them, or before. They own it when it hits their lot. 99% of the RV's at shows are dealer inventory. Use the show to define your needs...purchase only when you're ready. In the video above he confirms the "show only price" isn't always the deepest discount. PLUS...you should drive it and spend a good bit of time in it before purchasing. Too many people in and out of them at the show to do this.

[Chance]

Great show, except maybe for the record crowds.


The Airstream trailer area was the best I’ve ever seen. Lots of floorplans in different sizes and all in air conditioning.

I’m not into travel trailers, but spent significant time looking at Airstream details, and the design and build quality is so different from most others. And so is the price.

There may be “innovations” at show but nothing that significant in the van and small motorhome segment that I saw. The show is so large (for my limited time) that the only Class A we went inside was a 24.1 because floorplan is similar to classic motorhome a friend is rebuilding.

If nothing else the weather couldn’t have been nicer.

[Chance]

Things I saw, learned about, or caught my attention at Super Show, in no particular order:



Onan Inverter Generator

Onan will have a small inverter gasoline generator (sized for small rigs first) by end of year, and plan to have the 4,000-Watt by end of 2021. The 2800 will come first because Onan apparently think the higher cost of inverter will be accepted in higher-cost vans.



Rear Twin/King Class B

The Thor Tellaro 20AT has rear bed that is too short to sleep longitudinally. There’s no chance of using them as twin beds, or TwinKing. Additionally, the bed is way too high off floor to sit on as a dinette/lounge area, and headroom to cabinets above too low.



Wet Baths

All Class Bs at show that we saw had wet baths. That creates so many functional compromises that I have a hard time with the design. Like my son said, who wants to worry about getting toilet paper wet. For me it’s a lot more than that, including shower curtains and proper ventilation.



Minimum Shower Size

A 25-5/8” X 25-5/8” shower is plenty large for me if it were in a van with limited space. Coach House B+ uses that size on some models. I’d give up 4-plus square feet to avoid a wet bath. Their larger showers are obviously more spacious but not necessary for me. Their simple hinged shower door worked great.


Van Chassis

Mercedes Sprinter seems to dominate the high-end Class B market, while the RAM ProMaster was popular with lower-cost Class Bs. There was discussion by numerous manufacturers about 2020 Ford Transit with EcoBoost and All-Wheel-Drive coming soon, including one factory representative stating they had ordered theirs with twin 250-Amp alternators. As much as I want to like the Transit, the van is too narrow, and space between front seats tight to get into seats. And windshield is raked back more than other vans, making it easier to bump my head getting into driver’s seat from inside. I’m sure in time I’d adjust.



Residential Refrigerators

Residential fridges (compressor type instead of absorption) are now also being used in budget motorhomes. More expensive rigs often had 12-VDC compressors, but a few entry level motorhomes had dorm-style 115-VAC as small as 7.3 cubic feet, and rated at only 343 kWh per year (~1 kWh/day). They were made in China, so probably lower in cost than typical absorption (propane) refrigerators.



Very High Roof ProMaster

Regency has a high-roof ProMaster that has a fiberglass roof to make it even taller. The extra height is used at rear to add an electric bed that lowers over the rear bed/lounge/dinette area. This arrangement provides sleeping for 4 people in a hard-sided van. The upper bed can be lowered enough to sleep while still providing room to sit below. Other manufacturers including Thor had ProMaster vans with pop-up roofs which utilize canvas sides and require climbing over 6 feet high to provide 2 beds. Both design approaches have pros and cons.



Short Wheelbase Long Rear Overhang

Too many 24+ feet-long Class C and B+ motorhomes use the standard OEM +/- 158-inch wheelbase, which end up with fairly long rear overhangs of over 8 feet long. When bathrooms are in back, holding tanks and drain valves often end up too low. This would make it easy to damage something if backing into parking spots with intend to hang rear over a curb. The extra weight of heavy holding tanks at very rear of smaller and lighter motorhomes can’t be good either.

[Chance]

Coachmen Cross Trek 20XG and 21XG

The 20XG floorplan has an awesome size Euro-style garage under rear bed, but unlike European motorhomes the bed would be way too difficult for most people to get in and out. I seriously doubt this floorplan will succeed because of the bed, and fear marketing guys will see it as a sign that buyers don’t want a bike/scooter garage. Additionally, there is only ONE dinette seat that faces TV.

The brand new 21XG is same size but with common rear corner bed and corner rear bath. Getting in and out of bed is much easier than in 20XG, but “toys” are hauled inside the motorhome instead of outside garage. Why can’t they just copy Europeans who have Twin/King beds over exterior garage? Tiffin recently copied Euro design and it looks great.

For the 21XG, Coachmen revised the single 330 Amp-hour AGM battery design to 4 X 100 Amp-hour. Batteries are mounted two on each side of coach, using a tray that appears large enough for 3 batteries per side. Upgrading to 600 Ah should be possible.

The factory rep said he had seen the air conditioner pull around 88 Amps so expected it could run a couple of hours without shore power or portable generator. Perhaps if buyer installed 6 X 100 Ah lithium batteries it may be possible to run A/C most of night while boondocking, but not with 4 standard batteries. And if upgrading to lithium, batteries located outside could be a temperature issue.

[The Gritz Carlton]

hmmm....I want to buy a micro motorhome but I want all the features the big boys have. Everything is a sacrifice. Not poking at you my friend, but this is reality. With all the micro features, this is probably the route we will go when we finish our "Western Tour". Small ain't always bad.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton

hmmm....I want to buy a micro motorhome but I want all the features the big boys have. Everything is a sacrifice. Not poking at you my friend, but this is reality. With all the micro features, this is probably the route we will go when we finish our "Western Tour". Small ain't always bad.

This is exactly why we don’t have better choices.

It’s not that it can’t be done at a reasonable cost, it’s just that most buyers have been told it’s not possible, and they believe it. But that doesn’t make it so. I’m not picking on you, but it’s true.

In my opinion quality of design, engineering, and build for smaller motorhomes trails that of larger units, when in reality smaller units need even superior design and engineering because space is at a premium.

In the past I’m certain manufacturers were unwilling to invest in smaller rigs because they were at lower end of profit margin. I get that. With greater interest in downsizing that may change some. I won’t hold my breath though.

[The Gritz Carlton]

A close friend of ours just bought a diesel Travato on the RAM chassis with no slides and no wet bath. Quite an impressive unit and she's had zero issues. It wold be my first choice once we downsize in 2 years. On thing I would change would be opting for the diesel generator instead of the propane she has. Diesel was an option but she didn't believe me about how much propane the genset will use...she does now!!


You can pick on me...you offer excellent points here.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton

A close friend of ours just bought a diesel Travato on the RAM chassis with no slides and no wet bath. Quite an impressive unit and she's had zero issues. It wold be my first choice once we downsize in 2 years. On thing I would change would be opting for the diesel generator instead of the propane she has. Diesel was an option but she didn't believe me about how much propane the genset will use...she does now!!


You can pick on me...you offer excellent points here.

Gritz, unfortunately a diesel isn’t an option on the Ram ProMaster any longer. It was discontinued a few years ago. I would personally avoid a used one if for no other reason that the Automated Manual Transmission (AMT) is a potential nightmare.

In Europe the Fiat Ducato was upgraded to a cleaner and smaller diesel that has a true 9-speed automatic option. Reviews have been excellent. It’s possible that RAM may offer the new diesel and auto trans here in our ProMaster, but I’m not sure it will happen due to low diesel sales. I’d like to see the 9-speed at least replace the ancient 6-speed in gasoline ProMasters.

Also, even if we could buy a diesel ProMaster for the Travato, I doubt there is enough clearance below for a diesel generator. Even the 2,800 Watt gas unit rides really close to pavement — about 6” or so.

[Mr Sunshine]

Originally Posted by Chance

Coachmen Cross Trek 20XG and 21XG

The 20XG floorplan has an awesome size Euro-style garage under rear bed, but unlike European motorhomes the bed would be way too difficult for most people to get in and out. I seriously doubt this floorplan will succeed because of the bed, and fear marketing guys will see it as a sign that buyers don’t want a bike/scooter garage. Additionally, there is only ONE dinette seat that faces TV.

The brand new 21XG is same size but with common rear corner bed and corner rear bath. Getting in and out of bed is much easier than in 20XG, but....

I looked at these at the Tampa show, and loved the huge storage bay until I saw the bed over it inside. Not only difficult to get in and out of, very little head room over the bed.

A corner bed won't do for us, so the 21X is out. Our Vegas continues to be our Goldilocks coach. Not too big, not too small, just right! (For us and the way we travel now!)

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Mr Sunshine

I looked at these at the Tampa show, and loved the huge storage bay until I saw the bed over it inside. Not only difficult to get in and out of, very little head room over the bed.

A corner bed won't do for us, so the 21X is out. Our Vegas continues to be our Goldilocks coach. Not too big, not too small, just right! (For us and the way we travel now!)

I thought both units were based on a great concept, but sadly their designs lacked attention to detail.

Yeah, the bed over the garage is similar in size to a Class C over-cab bunk, but much harder to climb into because opening is so small. I’d guess you’d have to be young, small, and athletic to make it work easily.

I suggested to the brand manager (a really nice young man) that he look at the Tiffin Class C with similar garage to see how much better Twin/King can be when there are a couple of steps to get in bed, just like most Euro motorhomes. The difference is night and day.

I was disappointed that Thor didn’t have a new Axis/Vegas floorplan at Tampa Show. I had hoped they would adapt one of the Hymer Class A layouts to the Axis/Vegas line. I’m still hoping that Thor may be waiting for 2021 Ford E-350 chassis to introduce new 2021 floorplans.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Chance

Things I saw, learned about, or caught my attention at Super Show, in no particular order:



Onan Inverter Generator

Onan will have a small inverter gasoline generator (sized for small rigs first) by end of year, and plan to have the 4,000-Watt by end of 2021. The 2800 will come first because Onan apparently think the higher cost of inverter will be accepted in higher-cost vans.


......cut......

Did anyone notice full-page add in Motorhome Magazine for “new” Onan QG 2800i? “It’s “quieter and vibrates less”.

That and the “i” designation at the end of model makes me think it’s the inverter generator that the Onan representative told us about. Maybe.

A Google search comes up with nothing for me on that model.

[edkjr]

Any one making plans yet to attend the Tampa show in Jan 22?
Just wondering if the Thor group ever got together to do this?
Or are y'all pretty much on your own to meet up with others?
Gritz y'all going, your closer now.

[Muggs]

We thought about going a little bigger as 2nd dog looks to be a bit of a horse vompared to old girl.

Is there a list anywhere of which models will be on display?

[edkjr]

Originally Posted by Muggs

We thought about going a little bigger as 2nd dog looks to be a bit of a horse vompared to old girl.

Is there a list anywhere of which models will be on display?

https://www.frvta.org/show/florida-rv-supershow/
Don't think they have vendor/RV sales set up on a list yet, too early. But watch there web site, for new info that comes in.

[Mr Sunshine]

Originally Posted by Muggs

We thought about going a little bigger as 2nd dog looks to be a bit of a horse vompared to old girl.

Is there a list anywhere of which models will be on display?

It's such a huge show that you'll find all the new models and most of the current models on display. In the case of twins like Vegas and Axis, they usually divide the floorplans between the two brands.

We've met with some forum members at the show in years past, but it's hard to coordinate with a 5 day event. Most of us who go are only there for a day or two.

Just 250 days to the first public day, but who's counting?