2018 Truck Sales Numbers

[The Gritz Carlton]

Originally Posted by Cummins12V98

Alright, I was holding back BUT since you threw the first BOMB.

FACT, the PowerStroke engine is MADE IN MEXICO.

RAM is Assembled in Mexico with a 100% US Made drivetrain along with most of it's components. The 2020 RAM HD will be Made In USA, gonna buy one???

Interesting "my daddy can beat up your daddy" thread here. RAM is owned by Fiat...call it Made in America if you wish but it's a foreign company. I drive a Duramax and have owned nothing but GM products for years. A good friend of mine is head of interiors for GM...I hear stories you would never believe about where everything comes from...he travels all over the world. The Duramax was originally an Isuzu engine that came in the "cab forward" work trucks. All of them came into the U.S. from Japan with no "badge". Depending on if it was gonna be a Chevy, GM or Isuzu, they would stick a badge on the steering wheel and the grill for each brand. GM bought controlling interest in Isuzu, realized the quality and future of the engine, and changed the name to Duramax. Nothing is totally "Made in America, but where the corporate money goes depends on who owns the company. I swore I'd never own another Ford after a disastrous Bronco in 1993. Now I own an F550. Who really cares...if you like it...own it...but who really cares what you think of what everyone else chooses??? I still think GM runs circles around everyone else and always will.

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by Chance

Relative to RV industry, I would guess the truck with best towing capacity while running on gasoline is positioned best for future sales.

Why limit it to gas engines?
I would think that the best towing capacity wins!

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Yeah Ford has said and confirmed multiple times now that they will have a BEV F-150 (and a hybrid--I would guess the hybrid F-150 will probably use the new Explorer's hybrid powertrain or something very similar to it).

Our F-350 towing our 5er would only go about 200 miles before needing to refuel (the notorious V-10's thirst showing here--I'm aware the Diesels do go further).

Here is a look at the Model X's towing range. If you look at the 100D version (biggest battery) which is rated for 295 miles when not towing (thus range drops to roughly 37% of original-- 109 miles).

The Rivian with the biggest battery is rated for ~400 miles and using the Model X's reduction yields approx 148 miles towing.

Still not exactly the 200 miles my F-350 got. With these ranges recharge times come into play bigtime (if you're recharging every two or three hours for another hour that does impact the total travel time).

Many people, however, don't use their trucks for long haul trips like an RV'er would and thus a BEV pickup may work out better for them. Just when purchasing a truck now the choice of powertrain should be matched to the usage.

That’s very interesting information in table and video.

When it comes to highway-towing energy consumption, we should all know by now that trailer weight and length isn’t as important as drag. And as large as his largest trailer is, it’s still small compared to a typical American RV trailer, particularly if we compare to a 13’ high by 8’-6” wide 5er.

Most importantly, the test is done at 50 MPH. If driven at approximately 70 MPH, aerodynamic drag would double which would cut range nearly in half. Combine that with much larger and heavier American RV trailers and that 100D Tesla battery wouldn’t make it from one Interstate exit to the next in many parts of Texas, or elsewhere for that matter.

Electric pickups may have their use for commuters or contractors, but towing RV trailers of the size and type we often see today isn’t practical yet. It’s going to take a lot more battery capacity in my opinion.


P.S. — Compare energy requirements to a semi like Tesla proposed for a closer comparison. That Tesla Semi with Diesel engine would get about 8 MPG which isn’t that different than large RV trailers behind diesel pickups. And think how much battery it needs? You couldn’t fit it in a pickup at all regardless of cost.

[The Gritz Carlton]

"P.S. — Compare energy requirements to a semi like Tesla proposed for a closer comparison. That Tesla Semi with Diesel engine would get about 8 MPG which isn’t that different than large RV trailers behind diesel pickups. And think how much battery it needs? You couldn’t fit it in a pickup at all regardless of cost."

My GMC 2500HD towing my previous Open Range 323RLS travel trailer got 12.5 MPG at 65 MPH. Truck weight is near 9,000 pounds and trailer weight was approximately 9,500 pounds. This was based on normal driving....not through the mountains for hours on end. Electric anything is for city slickers only and a dream for the dreamers long range. They will never develop anything electric that will tow long-range in any of our lifetimes. It's all based on battery technology which is light years away.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

Why limit it to gas engines?
I would think that the best towing capacity wins!

I would bet (invest) based on future shift away from diesel towards gasoline engines, often aided by electrification to provide low-end torque buyers prefer for towing.

Overall the RV industry is trying to manufacture lighter trailers which don’t require diesel as much, although there will always be some heavy trailers that may require a diesel that is practically a commercial truck. When looking at RV-related pickup truck sales, I doubt many are associated with trailers over 20,000 pounds. If that can be accomplished with simpler and cheaper gasoline engines instead of diesels, why spend the money? Most RVers don’t drive enough miles to pay for added initial cost based on fuel savings, so it comes down to driving experience. The company that makes a gasoline truck that tows like a diesel is the one I would prefer to own shares in.

[Bob Denman]

A good friend of mine bought a DRV at the end of last year: it weighs over 18,000 pounds, before putting anything in it...
Where are those lighter trailers?

By the way: he bought a Freightliner M2; to handle to twinging chores

[The Gritz Carlton]

Originally Posted by Chance

I would bet (invest) based on future shift away from diesel towards gasoline engines, often aided by electrification to provide low-end torque buyers prefer for towing.

Overall the RV industry is trying to manufacture lighter trailers which don’t require diesel as much, although there will always be some heavy trailers that may require a diesel that is practically a commercial truck. When looking at RV-related pickup truck sales, I doubt many are associated with trailers over 20,000 pounds. If that can be accomplished with simpler and cheaper gasoline engines instead of diesels, why spend the money? Most RVers don’t drive enough miles to pay for added initial cost based on fuel savings, so it comes down to driving experience. The company that makes a gasoline truck that tows like a diesel is the one I would prefer to own shares in.

Bottom line and great summary!! Looking at gassers now. Don't need the diesel in the pickup anymore as the towing "requirement" has gone away. Selling Kubota, traded TT for motorhome looking for a gasser that will handle the boat. The new Ford gas coming out is looking pretty good now.

[Chance]

Yes Bob, that’s well outside the towing range of the Ford 6.2L V8. In the F-450 chassis with a V10, along with 4.88 gears, it meets minimum requirement but there isn’t enough buffer for comfort. I think that’s why Ford is trying to replace the V10 quickly so they can put it in a regular F-350 or F-450 pickup. I have to assume the 7.3L V8 will exceed the V10’s towing capacity by a significant margin. I expect (guess) they will hit 30,000 pounds GCWR with new gasoline engine. Still below PowerStroke, but way more than 6.2L gasser.

[Cummins12V98]

"The Duramax was originally an Isuzu engine that came in the "cab forward" work trucks."

You may want to "PROVE THAT" as a friend would tell me.

GM and Isuzu Co developed the DuraMax, it's installed in GM trucks. Isuzu's engines in their CabOver trucks are a straight 6 from all I have seen.

But hey you need to prove it.

Here ya go right from Isuzu's engine line up.

"The 32-valve OHC engine is manufactured at DMAX, Ltd. in the U.S.A. under the name of Duramax 6600 Diesel to power GM full-size pickups, full-size vans commercial vehicles. The Duramax 6600 is regarded as one of the best performing diesels in the US market. It has the class-leading power and performance in its class with the segment's highest horsepower and peak torque ratings. Its fuel-efficient performance was achieved by the common-rail high-pressure fuel injection system and its light weight of only 836 lbs. (approximately 380kg), which was realized by the use of aluminum in key components including cylinder head.
MAIN SPECIFICATIONS
Displacement: 6,599cc
Max Output: 224kW(360PS)/3,200rpm
Max Torque: 880N-m(89.5kg-m)/1,600rpm
Application: Chevrolet Silverado/Express, GMC Sierra/Savana"

[Cummins12V98]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

A good friend of mine bought a DRV at the end of last year: it weighs over 18,000 pounds, before putting anything in it...
Where are those lighter trailers?

By the way: he bought a Freightliner M2; to handle to twinging chores

Really no reason to buy a BIG truck to tow any DRV.

Mine weight 23k, I am at or below axle ratings and below combined. It handles the RV well.

[The Gritz Carlton]

Originally Posted by Cummins12V98

"The Duramax was originally an Isuzu engine that came in the "cab forward" work trucks."

You may want to "PROVE THAT" as a friend would tell me.

GM and Isuzu Co developed the DuraMax, it's installed in GM trucks. Isuzu's engines in their CabOver trucks are a straight 6 from all I have seen.

But hey you need to prove it.

Here ya go right from Isuzu's engine line up.

"The 32-valve OHC engine is manufactured at DMAX, Ltd. in the U.S.A. under the name of Duramax 6600 Diesel to power GM full-size pickups, full-size vans commercial vehicles. The Duramax 6600 is regarded as one of the best performing diesels in the US market. It has the class-leading power and performance in its class with the segment's highest horsepower and peak torque ratings. Its fuel-efficient performance was achieved by the common-rail high-pressure fuel injection system and its light weight of only 836 lbs. (approximately 380kg), which was realized by the use of aluminum in key components including cylinder head.
MAIN SPECIFICATIONS
Displacement: 6,599cc
Max Output: 224kW(360PS)/3,200rpm
Max Torque: 880N-m(89.5kg-m)/1,600rpm
Application: Chevrolet Silverado/Express, GMC Sierra/Savana"

As a friend once told me..."well, now ya have it"!! Don't be so quick to know everything...some things come with wisdom, which only comes with age and experience. I've made a great retirement for myself in the commercial truck industry. Attached link may provide as proof...depends on how thick one's head is and how bad one wants to be right. The Duramax started as an Isuzu engine in Japan...you can pick up on the rest of this from my post above.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isuzu_6H_Engine

[Cummins12V98]

Grits, not sure what you are saying.

From your link.

The Isuzu 6H is a family of inline-6 cylinder Diesel engine installed in Isuzu medium duty trucks, and also installed in GM medium-duty trucks as the Duramax LG4. It is mated to the Allison 2500, 3000 and 3500 Series transmissions.

I don't see DuraMax mentioned in your link?

[The Gritz Carlton]

"Copy and Pasted from above"



Grits, not sure what you are saying.

From your link.

The Isuzu 6H is a family of inline-6 cylinder Diesel engine installed in Isuzu medium duty trucks, and also installed in GM medium-duty trucks as the Duramax LG4. It is mated to the Allison 2500, 3000 and 3500 Series transmissions.

I don't see DuraMax mentioned in your link?


The Duramax LG4 was a 7.8L inline 6 diesel engine made in Japan. GM bought controlling interest in Isuzu (years ago), retooled the engine later into a V8 and started production in the U.S. All Post 41 stated was that..."the Duramax was originally an Isuzu engine"...and it's a true statement. You asked me to prove it, so I did. I sold thousands of these commercial "cab forward" trucks and even went to Japan twice, years ago, during this transition. I bet you didn't know also, the Isuzu Cab Forward truck (years ago) with the "gas engine" was a Chevy 350. It was built for customers who did not want diesel for many reasons. It didn't sell well so it was discontinued. Not intending to get into a debate here...just responding to your request to "prove it".

[16ACE27]

That' some serious "retooling" to make an inline 6 into a V8.

[The Gritz Carlton]

Them Japanese can do anything...lots of drills, saws and JB Weld. It actually ended up a V12 and they had to hack saw the front 4 cylinders off to get it to fit. They sold those pieces to Ford.

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by Tfryman

That' some serious "retooling" to make an inline 6 into a V8.

That's the McGuyver model...

[Cummins12V98]

Sounds like smoke and mirrors.

[blw2]

Originally Posted by rynosback

I think the next big thing will be an electric pick up. The torque and power of an electric truck would be unmatched. What they need to really do is put a generator that runs on propane to keep the batteries charged giving it a unlimited range. Can you imagine getting 60-70 mpg equivalent towing 30k?

why propane?
I'm looking forward to a plug-in hybrid pickup...but I wouldn't think LP the way to go... less energy per gallon

In my thinking, the electric or hybrid might be a good fit for someone like me....daily driver, not usually loaded...occasional trips to lowes or a garden center, occasional trips towing a boat locally....otherwise unloaded back and forth to work. Long way from making sense for significantly towing I'm guessing.

[The Gritz Carlton]

I've often wondered why someone hasn't experimented with a hydraulic motor driven small car. Four wheel drive, power of hydraulic pumps, powered by a small 20 or 30 HP engine. It would have auto braking also. Just like the zero turn mowers. With proper gear reduction you could get over 100 MPG. My Kubota 726 will haul butt...the L3540 same way...both are hydraulic driven and stop on a dime.

[wingnut60]

I think I have seen a gas-engine/gen/electric motor z-turn mower at a Lowe's once--didn't seem to catch on? Don't recall it having battery-power only.