thor Vegas 25.2 questions

[Chance]

Thanks for great information Happily Retired.

I like the idea of keeping the kids away from door. Makes a lot of sense, particularly if they go to bed earlier as you mentioned.

I've been thinking in terms of the 24.1 sofa with air mattress opening sideways like the jack-knife in picture above, but just realized from your description that it "may" open so the bed's long dimension is across the motorhome. Is that the case? Do you sleep across the RV or lengthwise?

[JamieGeek]

You sleep across the RV. You pull on the back of the sofa to extend the bed (e.g. the very top of the back of the sofa ends up touching the drawers).

For one camping trip we had four of us in our 24.1: My wife & I, our 12 year old son and one of his friends. We slept in the very back, my son in the overhead bunk ("his" bed) and his guest in the sofa bed. In that configuration there is really no room in the 24.1 other than standing in the bathroom. Yes the person in the bunk has to crawl over the person in the sofa bed. In addition, with the sofa bed out you cannot use the ladder to the bunk so the person in the bunk has to be pretty agile to be able to climb up into the bunk (our soon to be teenager doesn't like the ladder--he'd rather climb up over the sofa).

As for the table: yes it takes up some room in the camper. We will typically only have it up to eat and then put it away otherwise (adding some straps really helps with that: http://www.thorforums.com/forums/f27...raps-1088.html ).

When we're camping we leave the table between the front two seats in all the time and lower the bunk only at night (we also leave all the bedding on the bunk and only raise it up until the bedding hits the ceiling).

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

You sleep across the RV. You pull on the back of the sofa to extend the bed (e.g. the very top of the back of the sofa ends up touching the drawers).

....cut....

As for the table: yes it takes up some room in the camper. We will typically only have it up to eat and then put it away otherwise (adding some straps really helps with that: http://www.thorforums.com/forums/f27...raps-1088.html ).

....cut.....

I really appreciate all the information you guys are providing. Unfortunately, the more I learn the more questions I have. Still, I'm forming a better opinion on differences.

Sleeping "across" the motorhome explains why it blocks more aisle than I expected based on dimensions alone. Makes sense now in that context. With the 25.2's narrower jack-knife couch, even without a slide, it leaves a decent aisle to get to the bathroom. But the sofa only sleeps one, and probably not that comfortably.

If the table between front seats is adequate for most meals when it's just the two of us, and the sofa's table isn't used anyway, then aisle width between sofa and kitchen cabinet is plenty for us. This confirms a slide is not necessary given we are used to camping in a much smaller van. Still, there is issue of forward-facing seating for small children.

The "adding table straps" thread shows tables behind sofa. I now wonder where tables on 25.2 store? There doesn't seem to be much room behind sofa -- it's right up against wall. In closet? Or perhaps under sofa? I really need to look at a 25.2 again, and in more detail.

[TyCreek]

FWIW ... our 2015 Axis couch is a lengthwise configuration (similar to a jackknife). Since we purchased a 24.2 before ever seeing one in person we were a bit surprised when setting up the bed its first time. Our assumption was from looking at previous Vegas and Axis units were they were setup with head positioned in the slide by the window. As it turns out though we replaced the queen with a double mattress that easily folds up inside the couch (minus a comforter of course) so that it only needs air to be ready for use. The big plus here is that with the double bed, it can be left down for a couple days of camping while leaving plenty of room to move comfortably through the cabin. The wall side bed exit to the bathroom or whatever gets you out of bed, is quite ok out the back end by the end shelf where only a bit of the corner is blocked by the end-table.

[Chance]

After doing a little more research on this forum, I have a couple of additional general questions regarding any of the Axis/Vegas motorhomes, and thought of asking them here instead of starting a new thread.

The issue of low ground clearance has come up a few times. The entry step seems very low compared to most RVs. Has this been an issue for those who have driven their Axis/Vegas off the payment. I'm not talking about off roading, just off the road like at common overlooks, etc... The beautiful factory picture below shows how low the step can get when going off pavement. Anyone damage theirs by bottoming out?


Axis/Vegas specs show many options like TVs, oven, microwave, etc. I did not see an option for a factory-installed inverter, or a second AC. Are optional inverters discussed in other threads only available if that particular coach model offers it as an option, or are inverters optional on any model?

I also see an option to upgrade from 13,500 to 15,000 BTU/hr AC, but no option for a second AC at all. I'm guessing the 30-Amp service limits having two 13,500 ACs, at least running at same time with enough power left to run rest of coach. I'm wondering if the Axis/Vegas is set up to have an AC installed in back at all? And also whether a single 15,000 AC is enough to cool it enough during hot, humid, sunny days? Imagine Disney World in July in a site without shade.

[Chance]

Here is picture showing low off-road ground clearance:

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by Chance

After doing a little more research on this forum, I have a couple of additional general questions regarding any of the Axis/Vegas motorhomes, and thought of asking them here instead of starting a new thread.

The issue of low ground clearance has come up a few times. The entry step seems very low compared to most RVs. Has this been an issue for those who have driven their Axis/Vegas off the payment. I'm not talking about off roading, just off the road like at common overlooks, etc... The beautiful factory picture below shows how low the step can get when going off pavement. Anyone damage theirs by bottoming out?


Axis/Vegas specs show many options like TVs, oven, microwave, etc. I did not see an option for a factory-installed inverter, or a second AC. Are optional inverters discussed in other threads only available if that particular coach model offers it as an option, or are inverters optional on any model?

I also see an option to upgrade from 13,500 to 15,000 BTU/hr AC, but no option for a second AC at all. I'm guessing the 30-Amp service limits having two 13,500 ACs, at least running at same time with enough power left to run rest of coach. I'm wondering if the Axis/Vegas is set up to have an AC installed in back at all? And also whether a single 15,000 AC is enough to cool it enough during hot, humid, sunny days? Imagine Disney World in July in a site without shade.

During my discussions with a Thor Regional sales rep I was informed that if an option is not offered it is because Thor does not have that option engineered into the product line and the line workers wouldn't know how to assemble the coach.

As to the AC, last year during the Independence Day holiday I was at a campground and my site had not trees or shade of any kind (except my awning) at all. The temps were running mid to high 90s with humidity levels in the 80s. I had my 28 foot (interior 31 foot overall) Class C with one 13.5 AC unit. That unit kept my coach at 74 degrees with no problems for 10 consecutive days. If you are concerned about the AC one option Thor has for most of the coaches is the dual pane windows.

If you have not yet purchased a coach you may want to talk to a dealer about adding an inverter. A savvy buyer can sometimes negotiate some add on items as a condition of sale. I did this with dual wheel valve extensions and vent covers when I bought the Challenger earlier this year.

As a caution, when I talked to camping world about possible purchase 2 years ago they told me they could make any improvement or upgrade I wanted (I was interested in a larger refrigerator in a particular model line up). When I asked if they could do it right they scratched their head and tried shifting the conversation over to other features of the coach. I walked away from Camping World and haven't been back since.

[roadhog]

Originally Posted by Chance

I also see an option to upgrade from 13,500 to 15,000 BTU/hr AC, but no option for a second AC at all. I'm guessing the 30-Amp service limits having two 13,500 ACs, at least running at same time with enough power left to run rest of coach. I'm wondering if the Axis/Vegas is set up to have an AC installed in back at all? And also whether a single 15,000 AC is enough to cool it enough during hot, humid, sunny days? Imagine Disney World in July in a site without shade.

The Axis/Vegas has ducted air conditioning. You can shut off parts of the coach, or direct more AC to front or back depending upon needs. There are four outlets in the back that can direct air flow to where you will get the most comfort from air movement, or shut off some or all of them off. There is not a huge interior volume and so far one AC unit seems perfectly adequate.

[JamieGeek]

Yeah two A/C units in any of the Axis/Vegas campers would turn the thing into a meat locker. Most of us aren't planning on storing many sides of beef in them so we're all happy with one A/C!

The whole coach is only wired for 30A service (heck the auto crossover switch for the genny in ours is only rated for 20A!).

We haven't bottomed out on anything yet; even on steep driveways (the wheels are much closer to the front & rear making the approach and exit angles quite high--even at the rear compared to class C units).

So far we have camped in several campgrounds without paved roads; including one that was heavily rutted without making contact with the ground--even at the entry door.
This campground was fairly bumpy and the entrance road was wet, muddy, and rutted:

Note that there is no mud on the drop down below the door.

(And my son always asks: "How come you're always taking a picture of the camper at the campground?" LOL My answer: "Because you don't like me taking pictures of you!" yeah he is a teenager now.)

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Yeah two A/C units in any of the Axis/Vegas campers would turn the thing into a meat locker. Most of us aren't planning on storing many sides of beef in them so we're all happy with one A/C!

The whole coach is only wired for 30A service (heck the auto crossover switch for the genny in ours is only rated for 20A!).

....cut.....

My small Class C, a little smaller than an Axis/Vegas, only had one AC and often on sunny hot days it couldn't get cool enough. Rented Class Cs in the 27 to 30 ft range were about the same, maybe worse. Definitely not meat locker territory. I'm hoping insulation has improved over the years, but these Cs didn't have as much glass as the Axis/Vegas. Glad to hear one AC is enough.

The Axis/Vegas comes standard with 4,000 watt generator, that should put out at least the 30 Amps equal to shore power. I'm not following why you have a 20A switch. Can you explain what it does or how it's wired in?

[JamieGeek]

Its the black guy in this pic:

I looked it up, its one of these:
Products - Energy Management - Smart energy management systems - Automatic energy select switch

Datasheet:
http://www.intellitec.com/assets/pdf...-00714-000.pdf

Intellitec’s Automatic Energy Select Switch (AESS) is designed to be used in RVs to share the power available from a single circuit breaker between two large loads. The AESS applies power to both appliances until the primary load is turned on. It then removes power from the secondary load to prevent the circuit breaker from being overloaded. This function is particularly useful for sharing power between the microwave oven and another “sheddable” or postpone-able appliance, such as the washer/dryer, or water heater. Typically, this function has performed with selector switches, forcing the owner to manually switch between the two appliances.

I think it is wired between "shore" power and the generator to automatically select the power source. I can't be sure though as I didn't trace the wires back. Just found it dangling there like in the picture so I secured it.
If you look at the reference page it says its good up to 20A. I should ask Thor for a 120V wiring diagram to see how its hooked up, and what for (although I'm past the 1 year warranty I wonder if they'd reply?).
The interesting thing is that its designed to "share the load" between two appliances; not switch two sources but I can see how it could be used for that.

Hmm elsewhere I'm seeing that its commonly used between the microwave and the water heater: When you turn on the microwave it cuts out the water heater so the total doesn't kill the breaker. Given its placement in our Axis--in that picture the water heater is right behind the furnace hose--that is a possible use for it.

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Its the black guy in this pic:

I looked it up, its one of these:
Products - Energy Management - Smart energy management systems - Automatic energy select switch

Datasheet:
http://www.intellitec.com/assets/pdf...-00714-000.pdf


I think it is wired between "shore" power and the generator to automatically select the power source. I can't be sure though as I didn't trace the wires back. Just found it dangling there like in the picture so I secured it.
If you look at the reference page it says its good up to 20A. I should ask Thor for a 120V wiring diagram to see how its hooked up, and what for (although I'm past the 1 year warranty I wonder if they'd reply?).
The interesting thing is that its designed to "share the load" between two appliances; not switch two sources but I can see how it could be used for that.

Hmm elsewhere I'm seeing that its commonly used between the microwave and the water heater: When you turn on the microwave it cuts out the water heater so the total doesn't kill the breaker. Given its placement in our Axis--in that picture the water heater is right behind the furnace hose--that is a possible use for it.

Jamie,

You ought to give them a call and ask for the diagrams. Unless I am off base I think you have 2 things going for you. First, unless you purchased your rig used, you are the original owner so you are a "Thor Customer" and secondly, your coach should still be under the 2 year structural part of the warranty.

The problem I believe some folks are facing is that they purchased a used Thor motor home and although they may be Thor owners they are not technically Thor Customers.

[Chance]

Jamie, it doesn't sound like a generator transfer switch to me, but I could be wrong.

In my RV we limited peak loads manually. We knew not to turn on AC, microwave, and hair dryer on at same time. Not sure how I would arrange these in priority if automated with one of these switches.

[EA37TS]

Actually there are two entirely different items. There are EMS (Energy Management Systems) which control power loads to avoid tripping breakers when multiple appliances are going through peak load at startup. An EMS can also set priorities to establish which appliances run when there multiple one are competing for resources. Then there are ATS (Automatic Transfer Switches) which control the transfer or hand off (so to speak) of power from generator to shore power or vice versa as the situation warrants. Normally these have a time delay so you can avoid an overload situation resulting from multiple sources being used at the same time.

No all coaches come with an EMS, however, if a generator is installed all coaches should have an ATS.

[sikorge]

Wellcome Flyguy (Larry & Annie) to the neighborhood! We rented a 34' Bounder a few years ago and the 24.1 is a DREAM to Drive after driving that big monster! It rode like a smooth Cadillac but oh so big!
Jerry

[Chance]

Originally Posted by dstankov

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No all coaches come with an EMS, however, if a generator is installed all coaches should have an ATS.

Perhaps they should but don't always. Is that a big negative?

At least one Thor Class C I rented with Onan 4,000 watt generator relied on manual connection. And it really didn't seem that bad. My Coachmen was the same way.

Basically the shore power cable was plugged into generator while traveling or any time there wasn't shore power. When setting up, the cable was unhooked from generator and plugged to campsite recepticle. To be honest, beyond saving 5 seconds per setup, I'm not sure what an automatic transfer switch accomplishes.

Do you recommend it as a must-have? None of these had an inverter but I don't think that would change much as far as generator ATS goes.

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by Chance

Perhaps they should but don't always. Is that a big negative?

At least one Thor Class C I rented with Onan 4,000 watt generator relied on manual connection. And it really didn't seem that bad. My Coachmen was the same way.

Basically the shore power cable was plugged into generator while traveling or any time there wasn't shore power. When setting up, the cable was unhooked from generator and plugged to campsite recepticle. To be honest, beyond saving 5 seconds per setup, I'm not sure what an automatic transfer switch accomplishes.

Do you recommend it as a must-have? None of these had an inverter but I don't think that would change much as far as generator ATS goes.

I don't think it's a negative but it would sure be an inconvenience. I would hate to have to go out in a thunderstorm to move a cable from a pedestal to the generator.

My ATS is the Furrion F50-ATS



Here are the installation instructions which provide some info for your reading enjoyment.

Furrion_Automatic_Transfer_Switch[1].pdf

Interesting that the folks were out doing the annual service on my 20KW whole house generator today. The tech told me that an additional function of the ATS on my home system is to prevent "back bleeding" of power from the generator into the electrical grid. I also have a "smart switch" which is basically is an EMS for the house and is based on primary and secondary circuits.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by dstankov

You ought to give them a call and ask for the diagrams. Unless I am off base I think you have 2 things going for you. First, unless you purchased your rig used, you are the original owner so you are a "Thor Customer" and secondly, your coach should still be under the 2 year structural part of the warranty.

Sent off an e-mail to them last night. We'll see if I can add to my collection of Thor diagrams for my coach . In the e-mail I specifically asked what that part was wired to and for any 120V wiring diagrams they may have (a complete 120V diagram is about the only one I don't have from Thor).

[JamieGeek]

Well they sent me two diagrams regarding my inquiry (attached). TEE1287 is the same Axis/Vegas wiring diagrams as they have sent before, TEE1288 is interesting in that it shows all of the wiring harness in the camper.

I can't seem to find that load sharing switch on the diagrams though.

I think I've received all the possible diagrams I can from Thor on our unit.

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Well they sent me two diagrams regarding my inquiry (attached). TEE1287 is the same Axis/Vegas wiring diagrams as they have sent before, TEE1288 is interesting in that it shows all of the wiring harness in the camper.

I can't seem to find that load sharing switch on the diagrams though.

I think I've received all the possible diagrams I can from Thor on our unit.

Jamie,

If you are looking for the ATS, it is a box with the letters TS enclosed. It appears under your passenger side rear bunk on the first diagram you attached..