Another European RV is Coming...

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Pete'sMH

I don’t think there is any worry about cannibalizing sales of larger units. I bought a 32 foot Class A because that’s what I want. If I’d wanted a class B I’d have bought one. If I’d wanted a 26 ft unit I’d have kept my class C. And I think it’s a mistake to think major manufacturers don’t do market research. Winnebago sold a nice 26 foot Vista until recently. They still sell Vistas, just not the short one. I don’t think they dropped it because they were selling too many of them. But these are just my opinions.

Pete, I don’t disagree with your conclusion that people will buy what they want, but also think the Winnebago Vista is not a comparable example. You’re just going by length, and that’s just one small part of it. All Vistas are 8-6” wide and over 12-feet tall, so they will never be confused with a small Hymer Class A. They are very different animals. A short Vista also costs nearly as much as a longer one, and uses as much fuel, so there’s little incentive to go shorter.

My point was that it must be difficult to pump up the benefits of smaller motorhomes without making the larger money makers look a little less desirable.

I’m honestly glad you like larger motorhomes and were able to find one you like. The problem is that manufacturers must think like Gritz in that larger is better and everyone should agree. Whether it’s based on market research or not I have no idea. My guess is that profitability plays a larger role. They want us to think larger and more expensive is a better buy.

[The Gritz Carlton]

There's a plus/minus for both. Our purpose for this huge box is to see the Wild West, traveling extensively for a few months at a time. The space is wonderful. The second bath is awesome. The power is second to none. The size is a handicap. We did a day trip to the race track this past weekend for the Motorama. What drama!! If we had been leaving for 2 or 3 months...what excitement!! I think it depends on your plans and use. My 2 year plan is to sell this and go smaller...something we can jump and run with and have all the conveniences of home for the day, short weekend runs or maybe vacations for a week or so...something we can park most anywhere. I don't really think buyers go out and look for the biggest thing they can find and base a purchase just on that. If you make a list (this works for everything) of the 10 things you wish to accomplish with your new RV and outline your travel plans with a timeline, it will define what size best fits. Personally, I don't like "convertible" interiors with dual purpose...beds that have to folded into sofas, wet baths, or beds you can't walk around, but I will have to make sacrifices some day with the downsize plans.

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by Chance

...The problem is that manufacturers must think like Gritz in that larger is better and everyone should agree. Whether it’s based on market research or not I have no idea. My guess is that profitability plays a larger role. They want us to think larger and more expensive is a better buy.

Do you think that Don has been a bad influence on them?

You have to remember: this is the Land of "Wretched Excess", and bigger is ALWAYS better!

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

Do you think that Don has been a bad influence on them?

You have to remember: this is the Land of "Wretched Excess", and bigger is ALWAYS better!

I don’t have anything against bigger (other than I don’t need or want more size than necessary for us). From my perspective, size is a lot more than length. Comparing this:

[Chance]

To a shorter version:

[Chance]

Is not the same as this smaller Thor. And these come in many lengths also.

[Fish and Dear]

I guess I got lost somewhere along the line in this thread. Bigger is not always better. Smaller is not always more efficient. Professionally I help people plan for retirement. The first step is visualizing YOUR SPECIFIC time in retirement. Then you build a plan that can change along with what you conceived vs what actually is realized.

Same with these rigs...what do YOU NEED/WANT to travel in the manner you desire? Determine that first and 98% of the rigs available no longer fit. Now which of the 2% will be most suitable?

Make the purchase properly knowing this suitability may well change in the next few years, and you will need to be able to trade. Life is not constant. We started small with a TT and went big. Then went small with a MH, and now we changed class. We have a friend who could not imagine traveling in a class A the size of our's. And his is wonderful, but we didn't have $1M to spend. And he can't take his places we like to go.

His works for him and our's works for us. Nearly every rig I see I like for some reasons and dislike for others. What we have the likes outweighed the dislikes by a great margin. I'm glad so many options are available. This is a fun way to see the country, and I look forward to meeting different people along the way.

[Bob Denman]

Retirement: what's that?
I figure that I've got to work until I'm 142!
But it's getting better: that number used to be 187!

[Fish and Dear]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

Retirement: what's that?
I figure that I've got to work until I'm 142!
But it's getting better: that number used to be 187!

Exactly!!!

[Pete'sMH]

Originally Posted by Fish and Dear

Exactly!!!

Don’t wait too long! My company “retired” me about 5 years before I’d planned. It would have been nice to save/have more money but it was the best thing that ever happened. I lost 40 lbs, lost nearly all the stress in my life and don’t miss ANY thing about work. You never know how long you’ll have the health to travel. (I’m away from home even now for yet another funeral!)

[Bob Denman]

We're at 46 Months: until I pull the plug!

[Fish and Dear]

Originally Posted by Pete'sMH

Don’t wait too long! My company “retired” me about 5 years before I’d planned. It would have been nice to save/have more money but it was the best thing that ever happened. I lost 40 lbs, lost nearly all the stress in my life and don’t miss ANY thing about work. You never know how long you’ll have the health to travel. (I’m away from home even now for yet another funeral!)

Working yourself to death to get all those things later in life doesn't always work. You gotta smell the roses and enjoy life while you have the health to do it. So sad to see so many people deferring LIFE to accumulate more $$.

[Chance]

A small space can’t be made larger, but with a little extra money (slightly higher RV cost), subtle design details can make it “appear” more spacious and open.

This Euro Class B built on Ducato van (our ProMaster) has no shelf over the driver/passenger cab area, and had skylights added. It’s still tiny compared to large motorhomes, but as Class B go, it should make inside feel less cramped. Those are the kinds of subtle details that European designers seem to me more willing to explore.

While I’m not crazy about extra holes in roof that can leak, or extra heat load in summer, it does look nice. And removing the upper package shelf makes cab area look a little more like a micro-size Class A. That’s a great idea.

This is similar front floorplan as Winnebago Travato, but at least in pictures “looks” roomier.

[Fish and Dear]

Originally Posted by Chance

A small space can’t be made larger, but with a little extra money (slightly higher RV cost), subtle design details can make it “appear” more spacious and open.

This Euro Class B built on Ducato van (our ProMaster) has no shelf over the driver/passenger cab area, and had skylights added. It’s still tiny compared to large motorhomes, but as Class B go, it should make inside feel less cramped. Those are the kinds of subtle details that European designers seem to me more willing to explore.

While I’m not crazy about extra holes in roof that can leak, or extra heat load in summer, it does look nice. And removing the upper package shelf makes cab area look a little more like a micro-size Class A. That’s a great idea.

This is similar front floorplan as Winnebago Travato, but at least in pictures “looks” roomier.

That is nice, but for the sun in the southern or western US we would definitely need sun screens to block it in the summer. European designs are not necessarily superior to American designs. They have different needs/expectations than we. They are also more limited on space, and their fuel costs are higher than a cat's back. Great thing is we learn from one another and incorporate the best of both. Manufacturing processes sometimes need to be FORCED by consumer demand, and that takes time.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Fish and Dear

That is nice, but for the sun in the southern or western US we would definitely need sun screens to block it in the summer. ....cut......
.

I’ve seen pictures and videos showing sun shades, and some that are sunroofs that have both screens and shades.

If experience counts for anything, they have been building small RVs for a long time. We do large better, but I think they have superior designs in the smaller ones. Granted, most are expensive.

[Fish and Dear]

Originally Posted by Chance

I’ve seen pictures and videos showing sun shades, and some that are sunroofs that have both screens and shades.

If experience counts for anything, they have been building small RVs for a long time. We do large better, but I think they have superior designs in the smaller ones. Granted, most are expensive.

I agree

[The Gritz Carlton]

A friend of our family (she's 78) just bought the Travato and loves it. She lost her husband two years ago, retired from Michigan to Vero Beach and travels alone with a small dog. They boated for years on large sailboats and more recently with a 34' Nordic Tug. Since all systems on boats and RV's are similar, she has a great understanding of how everything works...or doesn't in some cases. The Travato is the perfect setup for the two of them. One of the reasons we went so big was we will be traveling with two labs. Dogs are very expensive!!! I get it with the benefits of small and see ourselves someday in something similar...a bit larger than the Travato but much smaller than the current Super C. The Compass an Gemini look cool with the rear slide out bed...as long as it has a diesel engine.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton

.....cut.... I get it with the benefits of small and see ourselves someday in something similar...a bit larger than the Travato but much smaller than the current Super C. .....cut......

Larger than a Travato could be the Holy Grail for a lot of buyers, particularly if kept as a van camper that can be parked at home, serviced/repaired at regular auto dealer, occasionally used as second car, etc.

Maybe by that time you’ll be able to buy one in US with full-wall slide.



P.S. — Not from Europe, but drives on wrong side also, so I think slide on street side.