Electric Sprinter

[Chance]

Following up on Jamiegeek’s electric Sprinter thread from a couple of years ago, we now have a bit more information on production units, and I have to say I’m not impressed. At least not as it would serve as the foundation for a motorhome/camper any time soon, whether Class B or future C.


https://rvbusiness.com/daimler-elect...ommercial-use/


A range of about 100 miles with payload of only 2,000 pounds isn’t a promising start in my opinion, although I expect European weight limits may be behind the poor performance. If they add more batteries to extend range, payload goes down. And if they reduce battery weight to increase payload, range suffers even more. It’s a lose-lose.

Maybe in US where a heavier van is acceptable they could give us better range “and” payload.

[Lt Keefer]

That's the big problem with electric trucks and vans. While they may be fine for light delivery services in a compact city center or even a yard mule, but they fall short for those that want to get out and about with anything near a reasonable payload.

[JamieGeek]

Yeah electric trucks seem to be about 3-4 years behind cars for whatever reason.

[The Gritz Carlton]

With all respect, you probably could just copy and paste everything from the previous thread...not much has changed. A motorhome that won't go more than 100 miles isn't a motorhome...it's just a weekender for someone that lives in middle of that perfect place we all travel thousands of miles in our "dinosaur powered" motorhomes to see.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Yeah electric trucks seem to be about 3-4 years behind cars for whatever reason.

Doesn’t it seem more than that, like at least 10 years?

It depends on what we use to compare timing, but the first modern 5-passenger electric car built and sold by a major auto manufacturer was 9 years ago when Nissan introduced the Leaf (according to Wikipedia — you may know better). And we are still at least a year away from a mainstream mass-produced electric pickup.

As long as buyers expect trucks to tow normal trailers, the physics (of power requirements while towing) will be an issue. A great example is what happens when you tow a small 2-horse trailer behind a Tesla X SUV. The video is long, but I watched it anyway to see if there was something new that shouldn’t have been expected.

As a quick recap, the 5,400-pound Tesla has a real world range of just over 300 miles; in large part due to exceptional coefficient of drag of only 0.25.

While towing a ~4,500-pound horse trailer, range was cut to less than 1/3. Energy requirement per mile driven more than tripled at times. They consumed approximately 1% of battery capacity per mile, and that was driving slower than the speed limit.

Even if battery cost isn’t an issue, to get acceptable range while towing a relatively small and light trailer would require at least 300 kWh of batteries, and that would add a lot of weight to the pickup or SUV. In my opinion this physical limitation is delaying electric trucks more than anything else. And to a lesser degree delaying vans also.



Video is too long but informative in a non-technical kind of way.

https://youtu.be/jhX3BmhJXc8

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton

With all respect, you probably could just copy and paste everything from the previous thread...not much has changed. A motorhome that won't go more than 100 miles isn't a motorhome...it's just a weekender for someone that lives in middle of that perfect place we all travel thousands of miles in our "dinosaur powered" motorhomes to see.

I agree...,
While I'm not an actual fan of "Battery Buggies": I'm certainly not opposed to seeing them become all that they can...




...Right before hydrogen fuel cell vehicles get serious!

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Chance

Doesn’t it seem more than that, like at least 10 years?
...

Perhaps, but I'm a bit optimistic and think (hope?? LOL) that trucks will catch up faster than cars did simply because the technology already exists at this point (and the decreasing cost of batteries isn't linear, more like a curve). Thus it should be easier and not as expensive to pack more and more battery into trucks as time goes on. (The max range version of the Rivian R1T will have 180kWh of battery)

If you want to read some entertaining (maybe) screaming in the comments just browse through them on this report of that video LOL
https://insideevs.com/news/371138/can-ev-tow-road-trip/

[Bob Denman]

I wonder which truck we'll see first?
Tesla... or Rivian?

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Perhaps, but I'm a bit optimistic and think (hope?? LOL) that trucks will catch up faster than cars did simply because the technology already exists at this point (and the decreasing cost of batteries isn't linear, more like a curve). Thus it should be easier and not as expensive to pack more and more battery into trucks as time goes on. (The max range version of the Rivian R1T will have 180kWh of battery)

If you want to read some entertaining (maybe) screaming in the comments just browse through them on this report of that video LOL
https://insideevs.com/news/371138/can-ev-tow-road-trip/

The technology does exist, but is it applicable in same way as cars? When towing larger trailers on the highway where aerodynamic drag rules, I’d say no.

Even with 180 kWh battery, the small and empty 2-horse trailer would have a max range of 180 miles according to their test. If you tried pulling a 10,000-pound 5th wheel on the highway, the Rivian wouldn’t make it 100 miles to empty.

I’m trying to remain objective. As mentioned before, it’s not just about cost. Weight is a limiting factor as well. Could you install 500 kWh of batteries in a pickup regardless of cost? I think you’d end up with too large a vehicle for everyday use when not towing.

Electric pickups may be great for personal use like running to Home Depot, or for contractors that either don’t tow or stay in the city near their base. But for long trips towing, like these guys are testing, it’s going to require new battery technology, or much more efficient (light and aero) trailers.


Electric vans to deliver mail, flowers, bread, etc. in large cities may be a great fit already. I’m guessing that’s market electric Sprinter is after. For a camper van often traveling cross country, I don’t think we are there yet.

[JamieGeek]

Ah but also note that the energy density per battery is also increasing on a (slight) curve. Thus soon 500kWh won't take up the space (and weight) that it used to.



From here: https://www.economist.com/graphic-de...-battery-power

[Chance]

Sprinter data suggest about 2,500 extra pounds per 100 kWh with present battery technology. You’ve mentioned $100 per kWh in near future, but to add an extra 200 kWh to a pickup like F-150, Tesla, or Rivian, that adds an extra 5,000 pounds to weight.

The extra cost for a luxury truck may now be less of an issue than the added weight. $10k to $20k extra may not be a deal breaker for everyone when some trucks are going for $100k.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Chance

Sprinter data suggest about 2,500 extra pounds per 100 kWh with present battery technology. You’ve mentioned $100 per kWh in near future, but to add an extra 200 kWh to a pickup like F-150, Tesla, or Rivian, that adds an extra 5,000 pounds to weight.

The extra cost for a luxury truck may now be less of an issue than the added weight. $10k to $20k extra may not be a deal breaker for everyone when some trucks are going for $100k.

Yup. We'll see what kind of range that eF-150 has in a year (or a little more).

Speaking of Rivian: They got a nice Christmas present:
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/12...allenge-tesla/

[Bob Denman]

Good for them! I hope they can get up, running, and building trucks soon!

[JamieGeek]

Perhaps they will use this new IBM battery tech in the Sprinter:
https://insideevs.com/news/389659/me...-free-battery/