The pain of being upside down

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by Diemaster

thanks bob. now im never going to hear the song the same again.

Here you go: your Faith can be restored!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lYe-0CLXrs

[TyCreek]

When the interest rate on a loan is less than the returns made on the same cash to buy the RV... I pick the loan! Why not reduce total outgo by using somebody else money. The RV depreciation or delta between purchase and sell price, is the cost of ownership. Being upside-down on a loan is simply part of the ownership cost.

My advice is: know your cost of ownership! Basic RV ownership suggestions; 30% or more off MSRP or buy used at/near trade in values to reduce depreciation and in general, sell private vs. trade-in. If you don't have cash working to back a purchase, the cost of ownership will be greatly increased

[VegasBaby!!!]

Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton

Sorry guys...it's not my plan to "dump" my responsibility on someone else...you guys sound like college kids!!! No one walks away from anything...future borrowers will pay for your ignorance and entitlement and banks nowadays will come after your wife, kids and everything else you leave behind. This is exactly what caused the 2008 collapse in the real estate market...and everything that followed...people borrowing money for houses they knew they could not afford. Who in here was NOT affected by their ignorance and greed? Don't buy what you can't afford. Pay cash or borrow from yourself for those things you do not need but can't live without...or just don't buy them to begin with!!

pretty sure the greed of the lenders caused the collapse lending to "college kids" that could not afford to pay it back and they knew it. They where lending to anything with a pulse then because they didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Just kidding about the last line lol. But seriously, who would lend over 100k to a 80yr old person for an RV without having some kind of insurance on the person? Unless it was a 12 month loan it doesn't make sense on the lenders part. To me without knowing the details of the loan, both parties are greedy. The old man knowing he will never pay it off and the lender knowing he made a deal , most likely with a life insurance for the RV to whom the lender some how is the beneficiary, that he will get his $ faster unless the old man lives to be 100

[Elite Washington]

Originally Posted by VegasBaby!!!

pretty sure the greed of the lenders caused the collapse lending to "college kids" that could not afford to pay it back and they knew it. They where lending to anything with a pulse then because they didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Just kidding about the last line lol. But seriously, who would lend over 100k to a 80yr old person for an RV without having some kind of insurance on the person? Unless it was a 12 month loan it doesn't make sense on the lenders part. To me without knowing the details of the loan, both parties are greedy. The old man knowing he will never pay it off and the lender knowing he made a deal , most likely with a life insurance for the RV to whom the lender some how is the beneficiary, that he will get his $ faster unless the old man lives to be 100

The whole collapse of 2008 is a different conversation. But pertaining to lending to the 80yr old. Legally you have to treat everyone the same regardless of age. For someone to not lend or put different restrictions would be no different then doing it to someone of a different ethnicity, gender or orientation because you have a stereotype that they may not pay back. 25 years experience in the financial history and attesting each year to regulations that carry prison time and hundreds of thousands in personal fines for knowingly and purposely violating the fair lending and equal credit acts.

[revjeffrey]

I always take out Full 20yr loan and Sell every 5 yrs.

Yes, the IRS considers an RV like a second home. ... You can put this interest expense under your home section because the IRS considers this a second home for tax purposes.

[Lt Keefer]

I have read that the collapse of 2008 was directly related to the federal government forcing lenders to finance people that could not qualify for mortgages. The federal government threatened to charge lenders with federal crimes if they did not stop the process of forcing potential mortgage borrowers to prove they could afford home mortgages. This was an attempt to increase home ownership among lower socio-economic groups. To accomplish this task, lenders packaged the bad mortgages with lower numbers of good mortgages and then sold them to investor groups. Of course the bad mortgages defaulted when the borrowers lost their minimum wage jobs at the local sack of suds. Anyway, it had nothing to do with people that bought RVs.

[The Gritz Carlton]

Thanks for confirming exactly what I said...you got it!! So, buying a large home is so different than buying an RV...yea, right? The point is...people borrowing what they can't afford...and knowing it! Accepting payments they know they can't make, but doing it anyway. The government didn't hold a gun to their heads!! Their friends should have!! Financing boats and RV's for 20 years...idiotic!!

[Bob Denman]

Time to get out the scuba gear: the Bank approved the loan for my new rig!

NOW: I'm underwater!!

[Mr Sunshine]

Good discussion. Those RV dealer ads that boast a low RV down payment and low monthly payments probably catch a lot of folks in the underwater or upside down trap. The lenders know that most of them will cough up the difference rather than risk ruining their credit. They also know they will have to write off some of those loans.

[Elite Washington]

Originally Posted by Lt Keefer

I have read that the collapse of 2008 was directly related to the federal government forcing lenders to finance people that could not qualify for mortgages. The federal government threatened to charge lenders with federal crimes if they did not stop the process of forcing potential mortgage borrowers to prove they could afford home mortgages. This was an attempt to increase home ownership among lower socio-economic groups. To accomplish this task, lenders packaged the bad mortgages with lower numbers of good mortgages and then sold them to investor groups. Of course the bad mortgages defaulted when the borrowers lost their minimum wage jobs at the local sack of suds. Anyway, it had nothing to do with people that bought RVs.

The problem with what’s written out there is by someone that has an agenda to blame essential low to moderate income people for being greedy for the collapse. The whole explanation will take more then you can post here but. Banks were not forced to lend to anyone. We have to offer services to everyone equally but each bank set their standards on how comfortable they were with risk. All banks and credit unions want to make money and they hate losing it and risk had to be out weighed by the profit potential.
The facts are that the risky loans to credit challenged individuals actually were better performing during the collapse then what most people would consider A credit. The mortgage backed securities is a completely different part of the equation as their performance were based on the overall economy. One of the biggest contributing factors that is not discussed was the work of mortgage brokers that sold mortgages to people encouraged them to lie and then put them in the wrong products. The brokers would then sell the mortgages to the banks as A paper loans they would then get their huge incentives. The banks then believing that these were A paper sold them as mortgage backed securities that was as investors. Anyways there is just so much that went into. Oh and RV owners, car owners etc were all part of the problem.

[The Gritz Carlton]

Bottom line...it's always the good people with responsible credit that pay in the end. Bob...are you serious about purchasing a new rig??? Been dealing with the home in PCB and haven't been on the forum in a few days...did I miss this?? What are you buying??

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton

Bottom line...it's always the good people with responsible credit that pay in the end. Bob...are you serious about purchasing a new rig??? Been dealing with the home in PCB and haven't been on the forum in a few days...did I miss this?? What are you buying??

We've asked in different threads but he's been mum? (even though I've seen him post after we've asked LOL). Hmm something about SOB perhaps he is embarrassed to admit it isn't a Thor?? LOL

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton

Bottom line...it's always the good people with responsible credit that pay in the end. Bob...are you serious about purchasing a new rig??? Been dealing with the home in PCB and haven't been on the forum in a few days...did I miss this?? What are you buying??

Since we sold the Spyder: the Missus had been asking about getting her something that had a real bedroom in it...
So we ordered a Tiffin Wayfarer.
I always told her that I'd buy her a Mercedes... I just didn't realize that I'd have to buy her a house, in order to do it!

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

Since we sold the Spyder: the Missus had been asking about getting her something that had a real bedroom in it...
So we ordered a Tiffin Wayfarer.
I always told her that I'd buy her a Mercedes... I just didn't realize that I'd have to buy her a house, in order to do it!

Wait? You didn't get the 24 TW model did you?? LOL (Exact same floorplan as an Axis/Vegas 24.1??) !

[The Gritz Carlton]

WOW...very nice..."Happy Wife, Happy Life"! Congratulations!! You will love the simplicity, mileage and power of the diesel and the quality of everything "upfront" being built by MB instead of unskilled carpenters. When do you get her?

[Chance]

Congratulations.

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Wait? You didn't get the 24 TW model did you?? LOL (Exact same floorplan as an Axis/Vegas 24.1??) !

We bought the 24 BW... They off\er the leveling jacks, and more storage space than the Compass and Gemini.



http://www.thorforums.com/forums/att...1&d=1539696521

[The Gritz Carlton]

Me too! It's all based on ability to buy and goals. Nothing about buying RV's spells anything close to good sense if you try to apply financial logic to it. It's like beer...it tastes great, makes you feel giddy but quickly turns to piss in minutes and leaves you with a headache.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

We bought the 24 BW... They off\er the leveling jacks, and more storage space than the Compass and Gemini.



http://www.thorforums.com/forums/att...1&d=1539696521

Very nice; congratulations.

Now the hard part about buying a new coach in the fall/early winter: Waiting until spring (of course that depends on how long it takes to get to you since you ordered it).

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Very nice; congratulations.

Now the hard part about buying a new coach in the fall/early winter: Waiting until spring (of course that depends on how long it takes to get to you since you ordered it).

The 24 TW is indeed similar to Axis 24.1, but better in my opinion in that the split bath improves layout for its small size. Main drawback are closets over the beds — similar to many Euro motorhomes and some van layouts, which is minor. I like it.

The 24BW is similar to combining an Axis 24.1 and 25.2, which is very similar to what you wished for in your “ideal” Axis thread a couple of years back.

Hopefully he’ll get a 2019 chassis with the new higher GVWR to cope with the two slides. Tiffin builds nice motorhomes but they are not particularly light.