KOA's campground of the future!

[JamieGeek]

Looks like there is going to be the first of its kind event in Salt Lake in March ("RVX: The RV Experience") where KOA will display its ideas for the campground of the future.

Interesting: this event seems to be geared for generating more RV sales--they probably should have an event geared to getting more campgrounds (where are all these new people with RV's going to camp?).

Nonetheless KOA says that some of its ideas are already being tested (mentioned is the Tuscon/Lazydays KOA has a huge solar shade--check it out on Google Maps. yup there is a huge shade and wow are those sites packed in!).

[The Gritz Carlton]

Before long you will probably be able to drop a few quarters in the 3D Virtual RV Simulator at Walmart, fire up a 43' DP and take a cruise to Yosemite with Jennifer Aniston doing table dances all the way there and Martha Stewart cooking 3 squares a day.

[Bob Denman]

It seems as if they're trying to reduce the number of employees...
Hey Gritz,
I thought that she was doing her table dances for you every night!
(Jennifer: NOT Martha!)

[The Gritz Carlton]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

It seems as if they're trying to reduce the number of employees...
Hey Gritz,
I thought that she was doing her table dances for you every night!
(Jennifer: NOT Martha!)

They said I voted wrong....I win!!

[Bob Denman]

[nautiquecowboy]

I totally agree with Jamie they need to start building more campgrounds.We have been trying to make reservations at several different places for a upcoming three day weekend in February. Everything is booked full that we can get to and still have some fun. Too many campers or not enough campgrounds? You have to schedule two trips around work are definitely at a disadvantage.

[The Gritz Carlton]

Originally Posted by nautiquecowboy

I totally agree with Jamie they need to start building more campgrounds.We have been trying to make reservations at several different places for a upcoming three day weekend in February. Everything is booked full that we can get to and still have some fun. Too many campers or not enough campgrounds? You have to schedule two trips around work are definitely at a disadvantage.

An evolving problem for sure. Next change coming is price increases. As more and more campers hit the roads and less sites become available, supply and demand will jack prices up. Same principal as hotel rooms in seasonal destinations. The $30 perfect spot will go away. The same thing that happened to golf courses will happen to campgrounds. The land will become more valuable for something else than a campground. The income potential per square foot of land will be the division bell, especially in the high volume areas like Central Florida and areas around National Parks.

[nautiquecowboy]

Very true price increases are coming also some people I think they're moving in the National Park's you can stay for 15 days but they just transfer from one site to another is this true? if that's the case that's really unfair to people trying to take a vacation and have no place to stay.

[The Gritz Carlton]

Originally Posted by nautiquecowboy

Very true price increases are coming also some people I think they're moving in the National Park's you can stay for 15 days but they just transfer from one site to another is this true? if that's the case that's really unfair to people trying to take a vacation and have no place to stay.

There's a "Survey of Public Opinion" going on right now regarding this subject. It suggest reducing the number of days you can stay and charging fees in many places that are currently free. I'm on the fence but see their point. It will open more spots for people willing to pay a small fee for the benefit. They are beginning to see the "nomad movement", "van-dwellers" and "life's about everything free" tent crowd are an issue as the numbers increase. They do not want these areas to become another "slab city" and that's where it's heading.

[nautiquecowboy]

We live in South Carolina of course we plan a trip out west every year since we got our motorhome that axis can really Burn Rubber going across the country. It's almost impossible to find a camping spot in Colorado near the Denver area up towards Loveland and also South down towards Colorado Springs it's like they're all booked up all the time is it just my bad luck we end up having to stay at the high dollar private campgrounds that really stink.

[The Gritz Carlton]

If the states and feds would charge serious fines, impose restrictions for future use for the "no-shows" and require people to pay in full within 60 days of their reservation...things would open up real quick.

[jimmyzshack]

Originally Posted by nautiquecowboy

We live in South Carolina of course we plan a trip out west every year since we got our motorhome that axis can really Burn Rubber going across the country. It's almost impossible to find a camping spot in Colorado near the Denver area up towards Loveland and also South down towards Colorado Springs it's like they're all booked up all the time is it just my bad luck we end up having to stay at the high dollar private campgrounds that really stink.

we booked these spots right a the 6 month window back in dec for the first 2 weeks in june.

sand dunes Recreation

Cheyenne Mountain State Park (only 3 spot left for june when we booked in dec) They emailed us a few weeks later saying that had to move us to a unlisted site because they were full.

Moraine Park Campground Rocky Mountains (dry camping still spots open
Glacier Basin was closed for repave beginning of june when we booked but now it shows it's open)

[Cpd]

We stayed st the Tucson campground. Its owned by KOA Corp and I have to say it was the nicest we have been to bar none to date. Solar is in parts of the park and provides shade as well for rigs . But I didn't see any bad spots in the park . We were in one that had an Adobe style fireplace as well as high table and chairs along with Adirondack chairs in front of the fireplace. Sites are flat, nice pads for chairs,table etc. Also have an rv place attached if you need repairs etc. It was like a RV Disneyland....

[Jefvm]

Well I know in California they have been raising the space prices and in some instances the parks are what looks like farming out the reservation process to private companies and these companies charger extra for everything e.g. each person over 2, each dog extra for the tow.
Wow really. I
I was just looking to book for opening day for fishing and the prices have been on average 1/3 higher.
The biggest problem I see is many locals instead of living in a house or apartment they have set up full time in campgrounds for considerably less, thus leaving less open sites.
Worse part they treat you like your invading their home. I agree with the limited time spent in a campsite to no more than 2 or 3 weeks max.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton

There's a "Survey of Public Opinion" going on right now regarding this subject. It suggest reducing the number of days you can stay and charging fees in many places that are currently free. I'm on the fence but see their point. It will open more spots for people willing to pay a small fee for the benefit. They are beginning to see the "nomad movement", "van-dwellers" and "life's about everything free" tent crowd are an issue as the numbers increase. They do not want these areas to become another "slab city" and that's where it's heading.

No matter how thin you slice an issue, there are always two sides.

Campers have gotten progressively larger and larger over the years, with exception of maybe last 2 years or so, yet the cost to stay in a campground is hardly proportional to the rigs’ size and required land area; which affects capital investment.

When I went to my very first RV show (I think I was 19), many Class As were 22 feet or less, Cs were in same range or shorter, and Bs and (what we now call) B+ in 20-ft or less in length were common. VW Westfalia and Toyota pickup-Class Cs could be seen all over campgrounds, and not one had a slide that extended into the neighbors site. Very few sites had 50-Amp service (100-Amp equivalent), instead 30-Amp at best. Many trailers were very small too by comparison to what we have today. And we shouldn’t forget that because these rigs were short, very few towed a toad to get around.

Now we need pull throughs for 60-foot combined rigs with slides on both sides, versus whatever a 15~20 foot narrow rig like a VW van would require.

When I make reservations it doesn’t cost me any less when traveling in my van, versus towing a trailer with same van, or in a 30-foot C.

The worst part is that we often make reservations in advance to get a nice site, not caring about cost, to have the campground move us to a small site so they can fit a large rig in the one I had reserved. Yet my cost is the same. That can make people pissed because we are being penalized for choosing to drive smaller units.

If KOA wants my opinion (and they don’t), I would suggest they create a campground with a section for smaller rigs and price it accordingly. I know people in tents, vans, etc. need larger bathrooms and showers, so if price is nearly the same so be it. They can probably fit twice as many units in same land area. I’m willing to pay whatever it takes to “CAMP” and be close to nature. What I don’t ever want is being stuck between two huge motorhomes or trailers with slides extended on both sides of me that makes a visit to KOA worse than a night in a rest area.

For what it’s worth, I paid just under $100 for a KOA in Maine. Not a great campground but location and view was worth it. I prefer campgrounds that are more rustic like many in California or Disney where you get shade from trees, not a carport (solar or otherwise).

RANT OVER

[The Gritz Carlton]

My comment you quote above has nothing to do with size of campsites, which seems the subject of your rant. It referred to people squatting and the "everything for free" movement that abuse the opportunity for all of us to utilize the few "free spaces" along or route. Regarding your suggestion of making smaller campsites for vans or really small campers...good idea, but wouldn't that just be a repeat of your first issue...with smaller vans and campers stepping all over each other in smaller spaces?


"They can probably fit twice as many units in same land area."

[Chance]

No, I don’t think they would necessarily be stepping over each other.

Some campgrounds that were modified to handle 45-ft DPs towing 20-ft toads not only require a very long pad, but also require two roads and very wide ones at that. And it’s sad that in order to fit more units, they end up clearing most trees.

Sections for vans, tents, and shorter rigs (say under 25-ft) without toads like in older days could go back to back-in sites on both sides, maximizing useable area for camping. Perhaps it’s not twice as many sites, but maybe 50% more.

Realistically, the biggest downside I see is that there are so few small motorhomes presently that these sections would have to start out small as a percentage of total campground. But if they lower price some, maybe it will encourage more buyers to downsize, use Uber, etc.

By the way, I’m not in any way questioning those who want large rigs — I’m all about freedom of choice. It would just be nice to have a quaint area in newer campgrounds. Old CGs still have them, but newer ones seem to design most sites so they can accommodate any rig (which adds flexibility). It comes at a cost though.

[DenverTransplant]

Originally Posted by nautiquecowboy

Very true price increases are coming also some people I think they're moving in the National Park's you can stay for 15 days but they just transfer from one site to another is this true? if that's the case that's really unfair to people trying to take a vacation and have no place to stay.

Most National Park rules are that the 15 day limit is anywhere in the Park. So you can’t just change sites or even campgrounds. I have no idea of how they enforce that, but it gives them a way of moving anyone they identify of staying too long.

[The Gritz Carlton]

I'm on same page, Chance. CG's are way too huge or way too small. As property values and taxes continue to increase, better use of the space will dictate changes...hopefully good change! Many campgrounds could add landscaping (Ft. Wilderness style) for more privacy. I don't think it's acreage people want as much as a little privacy when camping. The "trailer park" environment is horrible...campers of all sizes crammed in rows...looks like a dealer sales lot. I can't handle Fat Hairy Bubba bouncing shirtless out of his camper too many times in one day.

[Soldier Girl]

Y'all always give me so much to think about & absorb! I'm less than 2 months old, as an rver & fulltimer. I am semi or mostly retired at 54 yrs w/a very fixed income (at least during this 1st year). I have some advantages in being permitted to use military posts, however, Active Duty SMs on orders in most places can reserve up to 1/2 yr earlier than I can, most places can bump you to get that same Active SM in (& even tho it negatively effects me - I still fully support that!), many have ended charging us on a sliding scale according to rank, except for those Active SMs, & the days of being able to retire to living fulltime in an RV on post are gone & many limit how many days, weeks, or months you can stay or return to the same post. I can't spend the big bucks to stay at the type of quality CGs y'all seem to be describin (& for me, $30 a night is steep, at least this 1st yr). The Natl & State parks are exactly as y'all are describin, in terms of cost & availability, from what I've seen so far - so I havta be prepared to boondock wherever & whenever I can. In my case, I'm not lookin to get somethin for nothin, & I'm not a Millenial wanting my Obamafone & big screen T.V., or live in a family members basement - but until I've gotten my sea legs (no offense Sailors, jus seems to fit this groundpounder's sitrep, lol), & learned how to earn on the road either with my firearms llc or something new &/or online, like so many fulltimers, I will havta be creative in conserving my funds this 1st year. You guys have been a big help in my learning. And guys, we all remember a very similar phenomenon of somethin for nuthin from our generstion (yes, I'm at the tail end of the babyboomers)! The long haired draft burnin stereotypical hippies, yippies & so many others who were bent on free everything - including camping (whether legally or by squatting). We all survived that generation (It's our generation, whether we were military or hippies or other), I think we can survive this new Millennial generation as well. With your help, even a rookie like me can survive it!