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Old 11-18-2018, 02:37 PM   #1
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Model: Axis 25.5
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THOR #4802
Axis plumbing question

We have a 2017 Axis 25.5. The 3" black water PVC pipe from the holding tank separated from the dump valve assembly, while dumping last week. One hell of a stinky mess! I'm trying to repair it. I got the dump valve assembly removed but now I'm not sure how to reattach the black water pipe to it. I see no evidence of any PVC glue either in the 3" opening of the dump valve hub or on the pipe from the black water holding tank. Is this just a compression fit? Seems to me that this joint should be cemented, because there's quite a bit of pressure on this joint and valve assembly when you're dumping a full 30+ gallon holding tank. Or, did the masterminds at Thor, who assembled our Axis, forget to add cement? The dump valve assembly we have is a double rotating valve with 3" hub inlet for black water and a 1 1/2" hub inlet for gray water. I do plan to call Thor Customer Care with this question but they are closed today, so thought I'd ask some of the experts here. Thanks!
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Old 11-18-2018, 09:13 PM   #2
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Model: 2013 ACE 30.1
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THOR #2631
Our collective forum sympathies go out to you....the dreaded black tank accident.

I do not know your coach since I own an older ACE but is this the style of waste valve system you have? If yes, it is likely a Lasalle Bristol manufacture and are still available. I beleive that the end pieces should be ABS glued to their respective feed points (grey and black) while the pieces around the blade valve bodies I "believe" are moveable to allow easy replacement (bolting in) of new blade valve bodies when replacing damaged or worn ones. For sure the outside ports shown in the picture should have at least a glued ABS nipple. On my 2013 ACE I believe the grey tank feed is hard glued to the Lasalle Bristol unit but on the black tank side there is a nipple glued to the Lasalle Bristol 3" port but then Thor used a flexible (rubber) coupling between the black tank outlet and the 3" ABS nipple. Probably allowed them to more easily insert it all into the space and align it to the floor outlet hole in the waste cubby.
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Old 11-18-2018, 10:32 PM   #3
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THOR #4802
Javelin, yes, this is exactly the dump valve assemble in our Axis. But, there was no rubber coupling between the 3" black valve and the 3" pipe coming from the black water tank. It appears to me that this junction was just stuck together, with no cement of any sort. I'll look at it to see if a rubber coupling can be added. Not a lot of room where the black tank pipe joins the dump valve but maybe I can get one in from under our unit. Hate to cement this joint because if the blade valve ever needed replacement, would likely have to cut the pipe and add an extension to the 3" black pipe, since it would have to be cut to separate it from the dump valve assembly. The 1 1/2" gray water valve has a rubber seal and collar with 4 bolts that holds it to the gray water pipe. You'd think they'd do the same with the 3" black water connection.
Thanks for your informative reply.
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Old 11-18-2018, 11:28 PM   #4
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THOR #2631
Well it sounds like Thor did the reverse of my coach.....used a 1.5” rubber coupling on the grey side and “intended” on hard gluing your 3” side.....but did not complete the job. I think if the outer ports on the Lasalle Bristal fitting were ABS glued to their respective tank outlet pipes you probably could undo the four nuts and bolts holding each blade valve, remove the valves and have the center complete fitting drop out. This would leave the two ABS port fittings held in place by the tank ABS outlet pipes essentially. Of course you would only do this with empty tanks and more than likely you would only do one valve at a time........unbolt old one; slide it out of position; slide new valve back into the slot and bolt back in place; then do the other valve.


So if Thor forgot to glue the 3” ABS pipe into the 3” port on the Lasalle Bristol fitting on your coach, I am wondering if the whole L/Bristol fitting must have moved toward the grey tank side for the spill to occur from the black tank (maybe Thor cut the 3” nipple too short? ). Were the 1.5” rubber coupling clamps tight when you had the leak?

IMO gluing the 3” side should fix the situation assuming no other damage or pipe spacing changes have occurred. You could do this by loosening the rubber coupling on the 1.5” side to allow movement and space on the 3” side for gluing and then re-position and reconnect the rubber coupling and re-clamp. Check the Lasalle Bristol fitting dump port for alignment if you have a floor port sewer hose connect through before any glue up.
If you are not under warranty still, you might want to have a tech do this repair if you do not feel comfortable with “fast” and unforgiving ABS glue situations. ABS cement does not allow much room for error and the valves would probably be best left screwed in place to ensure alignment and correct spacing of the final result.
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Old 11-19-2018, 09:08 AM   #5
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THOR #4802
Again, thanks for your informative reply.
My 1 1/2" gray water valve & holding tank pipe connection isn't via a rubber coupling. There's a small collar on the gray water dump valve that connects to a flange on the gray water pipe. These are connected with a rubber gasket seal and tightened with 4 stainless steel bolts. No problems, so far, with the gray water side of the system. I noticed while disassembling the valve assembly today, there appears to be enough 'wiggle room' to correct any potential alignment problems. Rather than using ABS cement, I plan to wrap this joint with silicone emergency plumbing repair tape that bonds, even to wet surfaces, and solidly fuses to itself. It makes a pretty strong joint and ads say it can hold over 700 psi pressure, so it should work well in this application. Taping the joint could be done after everything is fitted together and aligned, etc., and the tape would certainly be more forgiving than ABS cement. Guess I'll find out.
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Old 11-20-2018, 10:42 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Oldchief View Post
Again, thanks for your informative reply.
My 1 1/2" gray water valve & holding tank pipe connection isn't via a rubber coupling. There's a small collar on the gray water dump valve that connects to a flange on the gray water pipe. These are connected with a rubber gasket seal and tightened with 4 stainless steel bolts. No problems, so far, with the gray water side of the system. I noticed while disassembling the valve assembly today, there appears to be enough 'wiggle room' to correct any potential alignment problems. Rather than using ABS cement, I plan to wrap this joint with silicone emergency plumbing repair tape that bonds, even to wet surfaces, and solidly fuses to itself. It makes a pretty strong joint and ads say it can hold over 700 psi pressure, so it should work well in this application. Taping the joint could be done after everything is fitted together and aligned, etc., and the tape would certainly be more forgiving than ABS cement. Guess I'll find out.
Used the same kind of tape to stop a drip at the same spot on my 2014 Hurricane. You're just getting ahead of the game.
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Old 11-20-2018, 08:11 PM   #7
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THOR #4802
Spent today rebuilding my Axis' broken plumbing system. Biggest issue was reconnecting the main 3" black water drain pipe to where it separated from dump valve assembly. As the old saying goes, "two heads are better than one". A helpful neighbor looked over my project and suggested separating the black water dump valve from the dump valves assembly. This left just the 3"
connecting collar, which, after sanding both the connecting surfaces of the pipe and collar, I glued together with goodly amount ABS cement. Wish Thor had cemented this joint at the factory. Then wrapped the joint with self-fusing silicone plumbing repair tape, just for good measure. Bolted everything back together...which was easier than I'd expected. My bad back was screaming by the time I finished buttoning it all up, so tomorrow, I'll fill both the black and gray water tanks and do a test dump (with clean water), to be sure all my connections don't leak. Hoping they don't.

Thanks to those who offered advice and suggestions!
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Old 11-21-2018, 02:24 PM   #8
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THOR #4802
SUCCESS, SUCCESS, SUCCESS!!!

Tested my plumbing repairs this morning with full gray and black water tanks. No leaks, anywhere!
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Old 11-21-2018, 04:49 PM   #9
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Congrats on the repair job ! Any picture(s) available? It is always useful for others to see how someone has done a repair.....especially when they may face the same situation down the road.
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Old 11-21-2018, 06:21 PM   #10
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Congrats on the repair job ! Any picture(s) available? It is always useful for others to see how someone has done a repair.....especially when they may face the same situation down the road.
Sorry, no pic's. Was working by myself...kind of a 1 man job anyway, fairly messy and never dawned on me to document the steps. Pretty straight forward plastic plumbing repair. Now that its back together, it doesn't look much different than it did before pipe came loose, other than the pipe joint is now cemented on the inside, which Thor didn't bother to do. And, where I wrapped the joint with the self-fusing repair tape is hidden behind the dump valve assembly in the back of the wet bay.
I wouldn't recommend such a repair as a do-it-yourself project unless one has a basic understanding of RV plumbing, experience with today's plastic plumbing components, correct tools and at least some degree of "shade tree" mechanical ability. I'm nearly three quarters of a century old and don't move (or do anything else) as fast as I once did, so it took me most of the day to complete the job, counting a few rest breaks to ease my bad back. 30 years ago, it would have been a 2 to 3 hour job.
Thanks for your advice and counsel along the way!
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Old 12-01-2018, 11:01 PM   #11
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THOR #13370
Thanks for sharing your experience. I just bought a previously owned 2015 Thor-
Axis 25.1N and noticed the 3" cap was not hooked up and that the 6" threaded cover was still in the compartment but I doubt if it had ever been screwed on because the elbow protruded about 1 1/2" below the threaded area. Oh well, I
may try to elevate the piping to enable the cover installation but everything seemed very set, so I don't plan on opening Pandora's box. It made through the last 3 years without it. I did secure the 3" cap no problem. The prior owner just
used the RV as a day tripper to his son's ball games, so a lot of the components were like new but the generator had 440 hours but still ran great. I did all the 450 hour maintenance items because it appeared he had done nothing, but I don't think I will be using it that much. It only had 7700 miles when I got it. This site has been a great help with my going through everything before we hit the road. Thanks everyone.
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Old 12-01-2018, 11:22 PM   #12
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THOR #6582
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... because the elbow protruded about 1 1/2" below the threaded area. Oh well, I may try to elevate the piping ...
No need, that is a swivel outlet. Try to twist/rotate it back up. It'll be a little stiff.
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Old 12-02-2018, 12:19 AM   #13
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THOR #13370
Thanks for the quick response. I went out and gave it a try but no movement.
the 1 1/2" 90 el ties into the 3" 90 el so it is all one unit. If it can swivel does it
do it on the discharge side of the 2 gate valves? Everything else is glued solid.
I gave it some good yanks but nothing budged - don't want to break anything.
If that is the swivel area then maybe some silicone lubricant would free it up?
Thanks!
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Old 12-02-2018, 12:58 AM   #14
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Model: Axis 24.1 Windjammer
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THOR #7074
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Originally Posted by flipper003 View Post
Thanks for the quick response. I went out and gave it a try but no movement.
the 1 1/2" 90 el ties into the 3" 90 el so it is all one unit. If it can swivel does it
do it on the discharge side of the 2 gate valves? Everything else is glued solid.
I gave it some good yanks but nothing budged - don't want to break anything.
If that is the swivel area then maybe some silicone lubricant would free it up?
Thanks!
At the discharge cap end. SLOWLY START turning it up. Will be stiff first couple times.
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Old 12-02-2018, 11:02 PM   #15
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THOR #13370
Today I sprayed some silicon lubricant at the two valve joints, waited about 5
minutes and it rotated freely as you suggested. Thanks for that tip - nothing about it in the book, unless I missed it. 6" cover is now on, probably for the second time.
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Old 12-03-2018, 01:00 AM   #16
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...Thanks for that tip - nothing about it in the book, unless I missed it. 6" cover is now on, probably for the second time.
Strongly suggest you download Ed Felker's excellent crowd-sourced manual that he put together for Vegas/Axis about 3 years ago. Here's the link: https://1drv.ms/w/s!AiYx6DLSeiiP6UNyy_VYGDO0BW6L

It will give you some good checklists and some good information. Many of us are indebted to him for putting this together.
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Old 12-03-2018, 03:20 AM   #17
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Got it! Thank you very much.
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Old 12-03-2018, 03:31 AM   #18
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THOR #6582
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Got it! Thank you very much.
Yep, the Thor manual is useless.
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*************
Bilsteins and Sumos front and rear...HUGE! FatMat and Hoodliner...HUGE!
Hellwig sway bars F&R, 235/85 Hankook ATM, alignment...HUGE!!!
Battery watering, 260watts Solar and BigFeets to make life easier.
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