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Old 07-23-2019, 07:15 PM   #1
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THOR #15962
Brand new 2020 36.3 leaks bad.

Pick up on july 10. On way home center of windshield was was running down as the storm intensified right side was leaking. Parked it over night next morning whole front dash covered in water. So called dealer said bring it in. Pretty hot out so cranked up generator to run ACs and back one dead. Nothing. Good thing was taking it in. Worked on AC and found gap on windshield seal. Put some sealant there and off I went. Broken wire on AC. Had pretty good storm yesterday and yep front dash covered in water. Wow. Brand new home and wow. Does THOR rep look at these pages like ForestRiver?Click image for larger version

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Old 07-23-2019, 08:15 PM   #2
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Yes, Thor does look and they may PM you, but they don't care. They already have your money so they are off the hook. Thor has no idea what quality means so the warranty in meaningless. You only get 90 days on things like leaks so you better camp out at the dealership.
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Old 07-23-2019, 08:28 PM   #3
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THOR #12085
I would go over everything with the proverbial fine tooth comb. Better yet, take it for at least an overnighter and try out everything. Make up you list and get it back to dealer to make things right.
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Old 07-23-2019, 09:23 PM   #4
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THOR #14340
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Originally Posted by Lt Keefer View Post
You only get 90 days on things like leaks...
Whoa, wait a minute! Where did you get that info? I personally don't know what their warranty is but no way people would buy Thor's products if they didn't stand behind a leak for any longer than 90 days.
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Old 07-23-2019, 10:30 PM   #5
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Squerly -- it's in the warranty. It's kind of a catch 22 situation. If the roof leakage is due to sealant problems there is a clause in the warranty under the section for "The Warrantee Ends" that says the following:

"Sealant maintenance and minor adjustments, such as adjustments to the interior or exterior doors drawers and latches will be performed at no cost to you by your selling dealer during the first ninety (90) days of warranty coverage; thereafter, any further sealant maintenance and adjustments are your exclusive responsibility as normal maintenance." (My highlights and underlining)

So if the leak is from improperly sealed seams, or gaps in sealant, or sealant not curing properly, you have 90 days to find that. If the leak is from some gaping improper assembly then they'll cover that under the normal warranty. I can't tell you the number of times I've been in a dealer's and someone brought in a new RV that was sitting in storage and still under warranty (but beyond the initial 90 days) and heard the dealer tell them that the leak they came in for will be their responsibility to pay because of this 90 day rule.

In fact, I bought my 2015 Vegas new in Aug 2015. I took it in for a leak above the driver's side window in Dec 2015 and my dealer told normally it wouldn't be covered because of it being beyond 90 days. But in good faith, he had his guys reseal the seam above the window , never asked Thor for warranty authorization, and never charged me. It took about 10 mins to fix the seam.

In the PDI checklist I included in the owner based manual I developed I recommended when a new owner gets his RV home to carefully inspect all the seam's sealant on the sides , front, and back of the RV. I emphasize it's extremely important to climb up on the roof and inspect every seam that is up there especially the side to top seams, where the front and rear caps join the roof, and around every place that a hole was made in the roof for appliances, vents, etc. I included this when I first learned about the 90 day Catch 22.

I know that there are lots of new owners (at least of Vegas and Axis) that during the PDI never bothered to learn what a USE/STORE switch does or that you had to rotate the sewer Y-connection down to hook up the sewer hose -- so they are not about to climb up on the roof to check seams. But this is definitely a "Buyer Beware" situation with leaks from bad seams.
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Old 07-23-2019, 11:55 PM   #6
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THOR #14340
Quote:
Originally Posted by bevedfelker View Post
Squerly -- it's in the warranty. It's kind of a catch 22 situation. If the roof leakage is due to sealant problems there is a clause in the warranty under the section for "The Warrantee Ends" that says the following:

"Sealant maintenance and minor adjustments, such as adjustments to the interior or exterior doors drawers and latches will be performed at no cost to you by your selling dealer during the first ninety (90) days of warranty coverage; thereafter, any further sealant maintenance and adjustments are your exclusive responsibility as normal maintenance." (My highlights and underlining)

So if the leak is from improperly sealed seams, or gaps in sealant, or sealant not curing properly, you have 90 days to find that. If the leak is from some gaping improper assembly then they'll cover that under the normal warranty. I can't tell you the number of times I've been in a dealer's and someone brought in a new RV that was sitting in storage and still under warranty (but beyond the initial 90 days) and heard the dealer tell them that the leak they came in for will be their responsibility to pay because of this 90 day rule.
Wow, I never would have suspected such a BS clause.

My wife and I agreed on a "1-year rule" when we bought our current (older) motor home. That meant, if we still like the motor home idea after the first year, we would buy a new one. So far we're really enjoying the MH lifestyle and we have our eye's open for a replacement.

But I can say with all honestly, that after what I've learned over the last 6 months, I will never buy a new brand new motor home! Just no way I'm going to drop that kind money and put up with the nonsense I've seen others on this forum face. And this 90-day clause is just one more example of why I feel that way.

Maintenance/repairs is part of the motor home game, I understand and have no problem with that. But RV manufactures are not being honorable when they dodge responsibility like that. And I'm not one to reward bad behavior.

Edit: Currently, I have my eye on a 2008, 42' Fleetwood Revolution that is being offered for $115K. It's beyond beautiful, and even though it's 11-years old, it's appointed much nicer than most of the brand new motor homes being offered at the same price. I won't be taking the depreciation hit and someone else will have already sorted it out.

Had I not found this forum, and had I jumped into the MH game like so many people do, I'd have a new Thor (or other brand) sitting in my driveway today. And there's a better-than-average chance that I'd be one of the pi$$ed off posters that frequent this forum daily.
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Old 07-24-2019, 01:43 AM   #7
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I know what you mean going with the pre-owned route. That's how we got into the motorhome thing. After having several used RVs we broke down and bought a new Fleetwood Class C. We loved it until the refer malfunctioned and burned it down. Prior to that it was flawless. Went back to the pre-owned route with another Class C from Fleetwood. Had it for 15 wonderful years. When I retired we decided to try new again. Big mistake. RV manufacturers and dealers have no scruples or moral fortitude. Quality is crap and warranties are almost non-existent. If we decide on another coach is will be pre-owned.
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Old 07-24-2019, 03:29 AM   #8
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The 90 day leak warranty is not unusual and while we could all wish it was better it really doesnít represent poor quality. RV parts move in weather and with travel. This is simply bound to loosen seams and joints. If you examine your roof and wall penetrations every couple of months and address any suspect areas it is a quick and easy job. If you wait very long after a leak develops you are facing a huge mess and probably decreased value. Itís just part of the RV gig. I do wish the dealers would be more upfront about it though. Also my windshield has leaked on every RV Iíve ever had. I think itís because the glass canít flex at all but the front cap certainly does. Itís easy to fix with windshield sealant. Truly, not a big deal. All the best.
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Old 07-24-2019, 04:45 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Squerly View Post
Wow, I never would have suspected such a BS clause.

My wife and I agreed on a "1-year rule" when we bought our current (older) motor home. That meant, if we still like the motor home idea after the first year, we would buy a new one. So far we're really enjoying the MH lifestyle and we have our eye's open for a replacement.

But I can say with all honestly, that after what I've learned over the last 6 months, I will never buy a new brand new motor home! Just no way I'm going to drop that kind money and put up with the nonsense I've seen others on this forum face. And this 90-day clause is just one more example of why I feel that way.

Maintenance/repairs is part of the motor home game, I understand and have no problem with that. But RV manufactures are not being honorable when they dodge responsibility like that. And I'm not one to reward bad behavior.

Edit: Currently, I have my eye on a 2008, 42' Fleetwood Revolution that is being offered for $115K. It's beyond beautiful, and even though it's 11-years old, it's appointed much nicer than most of the brand new motor homes being offered at the same price. I won't be taking the depreciation hit and someone else will have already sorted it out.

Had I not found this forum, and had I jumped into the MH game like so many people do, I'd have a new Thor (or other brand) sitting in my driveway today. And there's a better-than-average chance that I'd be one of the pi$$ed off posters that frequent this forum daily.

Help me understand the rationale for wanting to buy a used / preowned RV when it is known, or a given that the RV when it was new was most likely poorly built? The more I read the problems from mostly new RV owners, the more I would be reluctant to buy preowned from individual or dealer. I know in one case a Dealer had a used unit and they dropped the price real low, and told me they would take a check and give me the key? Confused they were telling me that they would sell exactly as is and they would do absolutely nothing, not even wash it.

I remember 30 years ago a Jaguar XJ6 was a mechanical nightmare. Buying a used one certainly didn't make it any better.
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Old 07-24-2019, 11:15 AM   #10
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THOR #14340
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Originally Posted by dkoldman View Post
Help me understand the rationale for wanting to buy a used / preowned RV when it is known, or a given that the RV when it was new was most likely poorly built?
It's a combination of several things, DK.
  • Build quality is a big factor.
  • More bang for the buck is another.
  • It doesn't bother me at all to bypass the "out the door depreciation" of a new motor home.
A new 2008, 42' Fleetwood Revolution was arguably a 3-4 hundred thousand dollar motor home. As such, it is appointed well, has a diesel engine, an honest set of house batteries, inverter, tile floors, washer/dryer, etc., etc. and can be purchased for about $105K with less than 40,000 miles.

A 2020, 37' Thor Challenger 37TB, albeit an extremely nice motor home, is a V10, vinyl floor, very basic house batteries, inverter? And is priced at around $148K.

I'd rather save the 40K and have a bigger, better built coach than I would to have a newer, smaller coach with less appointments. I've posted a few pictures of the 2008 Revolution and the 2020 Challenger for comparison.

The first 5 are of the 2020 Thor Challenger, the last 5 are of the 2008 Revolution. You don't have to look to hard to see the difference in build quality between the two.
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Old 07-24-2019, 12:37 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Squerly View Post
It's a combination of several things, DK.
  • Build quality is a big factor.
  • More bang for the buck is another.
  • It doesn't bother me at all to bypass the "out the door depreciation" of a new motor home.
A new 2008, 42' Fleetwood Revolution was arguably a 3-4 hundred thousand dollar motor home. As such, it is appointed well, has a diesel engine, an honest set of house batteries, inverter, tile floors, washer/dryer, etc., etc. and can be purchased for about $105K with less than 40,000 miles.

A 2020, 37' Thor Challenger 37TB, albeit an extremely nice motor home, is a V10, vinyl floor, very basic house batteries, inverter? And is priced at around $148K.

I'd rather save the 40K and have a bigger, better built coach than I would to have a newer, smaller coach with less appointments. I've posted a few pictures of the 2008 Revolution and the 2020 Challenger for comparison.

The first 5 are of the 2020 Thor Challenger, the last 5 are of the 2008 Revolution. You don't have to look to hard to see the difference in build quality between the two.
Both are very nice coaches. I get the buy preowned to benefit from the depreciation angle. I guess it wasn't clear to me that in a number of post on this site, I will read where some are complaining about the quality of a new coach and then end with that is why they prefer to buy preowned? i.e. I will buy a preowned Cadillac XT5 without blinking if it is low miles and clean. But if I felt Cadillac make crappy poor quality brand new vehicles, seem like the last thing I would want to do is buy a used Cadillac XT5.

Why is this relevant to me? Take the money / depreciation out of the equation. If your were looking to buy your very first RV, which would you buy hoping to have the least amount of things to worry with to fix, break downs etc.? Brand new or preowned?
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Old 07-24-2019, 12:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkoldman View Post
If your were looking to buy your very first RV, which would you buy hoping to have the least amount of things to worry with to fix, break downs etc.? Brand new or preowned?
If you were looking at two RV's, both the same make/model, but one was 5 years old and the other brand new, then I see little or no benefit to buying used. The benefits are realized when you buy an older, high-end model coach, for the same amount that a new, entry level model costs.

Look at it this way, would you rather drive a well-maintained, 5-year old Mercedes SL650 or a brand new Chevy Cavalier?

For me, the older, high-end model is the better bet. But that's just me, YMMV. I accept that RV ownership means the windows will leak and the air conditioner will break on both RV's. So I prefer a higher-end, better appointed coach to work on.
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Old 07-24-2019, 02:04 PM   #13
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Look at it this way, would you rather drive a well-maintained, 5-year old Mercedes SL650 or a brand new Chevy Cavalier?

For me, the older, high-end model is the better bet. But that's just me, YMMV. I accept that RV ownership means the windows will leak and the air conditioner will break on both RV's. So I prefer a higher-end, better appointed coach to work on.
What color is the Chevy Cavalier Just playing as I follow better what is being said or meant by preowned preference. Simply put you get more bang for your buck.

When we rent, we get the big diesel pushers, they are too big for me to own though. I basically need a vacation after every trip we rent because I am literally scared to death while driving that thing. My wife will not drive those rentals short emergency, or if I had to get rid of too many beer cans out of fridge to reduce weight.

What I want to own has to be 30' 3" or shorter. We don't like B Class, way to small for us and we consider a waste of time, I have more room in Navigator. We carry tents if perfect camp situation / weather permits otherwise a hotel.

Right now the 27b is winning over the 29.3 . I have looked at other Mfgs and can find nothing that comes comparable equipped like the Thor short of paying $30 - $40k more. I do see lots of good deals on preowned 2017 & up 29.3 & 27b's, but I have been reluctant to buy out of fear that I may be buying someone's else headache? I think my plan is to shop meticulous and then when I find the perfect RV to then go EXTREME on PDI to make sure Day 1 is good. I will just have to be prepared for what breaks after that. i.e. some owner that complain may be buying a preowned or new RV from that didn't take the PDI serious or that the previous owner didn't take serious?
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Old 07-24-2019, 02:22 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkoldman View Post
...
Why is this relevant to me? Take the money / depreciation out of the equation. If your were looking to buy your very first RV, which would you buy hoping to have the least amount of things to worry with to fix, break downs etc.? Brand new or preowned?
I've bought 2 RV's so far... both used...
First was an older unit - Infinity - (10 years) and was really a 'lets see if we like this and what we want'. It served us well for several years. We upgraded when our travel started to include longer snowbird trips and wanted more room (slides) as I am still working so needed to consider workspace.

Second (current) unit was about a year old - still at the 'entry level end' (Hurricane) and had been a rental from the dealer for the season. Many of the 'startup' problems others reported I never saw - and likely because of the dealership being incented by making more $$ if the unit was rentable and they addressed things like batteries, etc.
I still am seeing some of the 'aging' issues - like peeling furniture - but I seemed to have missed many of the 'startup' issues.

What would I buy next? Probably a higher end used unit... but not in a rush to do so (though DW certainly liked the Aria when she saw it at last Florida rally...)

What would I do different if doing this again?
Not much... I think starting with used was a good decision for us. I would know more now (I hadn't found the forum till after I bought the second one) - I certainly got lucky with what I missed on PDI's but had good dealers that took care of it. I would do better negotiating on the second one - as I probably paid a little more than I should have looking back... didn't really understand the 'normal' new discount to better negotiate used. But we've been happy with our rigs and what they have allowed us to do.
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Old 07-24-2019, 08:36 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Lt Keefer View Post
Yes, Thor does look and they may PM you, but they don't care. They already have your money so they are off the hook. Thor has no idea what quality means so the warranty in meaningless. You only get 90 days on things like leaks so you better camp out at the dealership.
The standard warranty is 12 months so where did 90 days come from ?

Also Thor is very good about honoring the warranty, it usually is a time issue getting them in the shop
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Old 07-24-2019, 08:41 PM   #16
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I know a couple people personally that have had leaks repaired after 90 days and a number others on the forum have

You have to get your issues documented and the confirmation

Similar deals with other manufacturers although a very few have 24 month warranties
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Old 07-24-2019, 09:10 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by lwmcguire View Post
The standard warranty is 12 months so where did 90 days come from ?

Also Thor is very good about honoring the warranty, it usually is a time issue getting them in the shop
The detail on the 90 days is here: Thor Forums - View Single Post - Brand new 2020 36.3 leaks bad.
If leaks are due to seams - the warranty is 90 days.
Leaks for other reasons are under the 12 months.
And if people got them fixed outside of warranty, that's great...
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Old 07-24-2019, 11:09 PM   #18
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THOR #13399
Remember the 2008 DP is now 12 years old so probably will soon need tires, slide toppers, awning, batteries,updated tv's,blinds furniture, and God forbid the turbo goes south. All this could add up to BIG $$$$$. Fix it all?
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Old 07-31-2019, 11:14 AM   #19
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Thor called me and asked what assistance they could help me with. They called the dealer and I got a call with a detailed of what needed to be done. Unfortunately the dealer is at the mercy of a motorhome window repair facility as that's beyond there scope to fix. Warranty now has to approve repair work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt Keefer View Post
Yes, Thor does look and they may PM you, but they don't care. They already have your money so they are off the hook. Thor has no idea what quality means so the warranty in meaningless. You only get 90 days on things like leaks so you better camp out at the dealership.
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Old 07-31-2019, 01:01 PM   #20
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It's good to hear that there has been some movement...
The best of luck to you: please let us know how the process goes!
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