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Old 02-09-2018, 01:53 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigben View Post
Oneilkeys - yep, the BIRD and e-Start solenoid wiring check is where my detective work will begin with warmer weather arriving soon. I think the current charging problem might be a result of a blow out we had in late Dec '17. I am going to look for a nicked wire from the automotive alternator to the battery box items - BIRD and e-Solenoid. I have the wiring diagram from Thor that gives me the wire colors and terminal locations. With a multimeter, looking for an open circuit or bad ground should be fairly doable.

Thanks to all you folks again.
If you find it is a wire from the BIRD to the house batteries, you can just run that wire to the house battery side of the Trombetta rather than going all the way back to the house batteries. A lot easier and shorter.

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Old 02-09-2018, 06:34 PM   #22
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Testing and Results

Warmed up in KY today and I went back to work on finding my charging issue. After finding the BIRD, checking the wiring harness and finally checking the solenoid operation; I believe the issue to be the Trombetta e-Start Solenoid.

Followed the wiring between the BIRD and e-Start Solenoid, everything was connect, had necessary voltages and grounds as indicated by diagrams and relay markings. I then removed the house battery side of the e-start solenoid. Check voltage on both sides of the solenoid with switches off. Voltage was present coming from the automotive side but none on the house battery side. Leaving the wiring off the solenoid on the house battery side, I started the coach engine. I then checked the voltage again. 13+ volts on the automotive side of the solenoid and no voltage on the house battery side.

Conclusion: e-Start Solenoid is not operating correctly when power is applied to automotive side.

Confirmed my findings with Thor CSR Tech Spt and in the process of replacing the Trombetta Solenoid. Confrim

Part is on order and should be in about 5 days. I'll replace and report back to the forum.

Below I've included some pics for clarification to others.

#1 is the side view of the e-Start Solenoid (Trombetta)
#2 is the top view of the e-Start Solenoid (Trombetta)
#3 is the side view of the BIRD
#4 is the BIRD wiring harness spliced into the Thor Chassis harness (White spliced to yellow with black stripe - Power side of solenoid)
(Black spliced to white - Ground side of solenoid)
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Old 02-09-2018, 07:34 PM   #23
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Old 02-09-2018, 09:24 PM   #24
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You are probably right and it is the Trombetta. However, the Trombetta is a “dumb animal” nothing more than a mechanical switch. So if the charging works one way (from generator to chassis battery) but not the other (alternator to coach battery), if the Trombetta is bad, I would think that it would not work either way. Not sure of that - it may be possible. If you change out the Trombetta and it still does not work, I would check the voltage on the orange wire when the alternator is running. If you are not getting the same voltage at the chassis battery or Trombetta chassis battery post and the orange wire, then that wire is not hooked to the chassis battery as it should be. If the BIRD does not sense above 13.1v thru that wire, it will not open the Trombetta so the system would not charge from the alternator to house batteries. If the red wire was hooked up correctly (as it must be) then the system would still charge from the generator to the chassis battery. Hope you are right and it is a bad Trombetta. If not, check the orange wire.
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Old 02-10-2018, 01:24 AM   #25
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Yep, the Trombetta is a simple electro mechanical switch. It is only made smart by the BIRD switch. When it acts as it suppose to, the Trombetta solenoid closes the charging circuit between the alternator and house batteries. I used a tried and true method to test the Trombetta functioning - I removed the house battery side and started the coach motor. I got 13+ volts to the solenoid from the coach alternator but nothing on the house battery side terminal. At the same time the Trombetta had a ground and 13+ volts coming from the BIRD. So best guess - Trombetta solenoid simply isn't working correctly. New one is on the way - hopefully it is fixed.

Real good thing, I've gotten to know WAY more than I ever thought I would about the parts of the charging systems. WAY MORE! Good thing - I think. PS: I used a number of your (Oneilkeys) post to gain that knowledge. So thank you.
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Old 02-10-2018, 01:40 AM   #26
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So the white wire was reading 13.8v to the Trombetta while the engine and alternator were on? If so, the orange wire should also have read 13.8v so it should be the Trombetta that somehow is bad in one direction but not the other. I’ll be interested to see if the new Trombetta fixes the problem. Hopefully it will. Now you’re an expert!
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Old 02-10-2018, 01:49 AM   #27
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Never an expert - just a smarter survivor. The group think on this site has saved me several hundreds (maybe thousands) of dollars. I have a very low level of confidence of good outcomes when stopping into a RV "repair" shop.

Worst case on my charging system is I buy a Trombetta switch and it doesn't fix the issue. I am out $40 and my time. Then I continue looking and bothering my fellow DIYers on this site.
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Old 02-10-2018, 01:56 AM   #28
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Absolutely. Lot of times it is easier, faster and cheaper to try the cheap and easy fixes first and then move on to the more expensive and difficult solutions. Spending $40 for a Trombetta when it very well may solve your problem, is a good investment. If it doesn’t, it’s still cheaper than taking your coach to a repair shop ($150 to diagnose a problem here) if you can get in and then have them replace a $100 item along with the $40 item. And think of the free education you have had. This forum has also saved me hundreds of dollars and many hours of time. Good luck.
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Old 02-10-2018, 01:58 AM   #29
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Funny now - I can talk smack after getting the ATS working and generator charging house batteries!

The only problem with not going to a RV "Repair" shop in KY - I cannot see those boys from Deliverance and no banjos playing.
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Old 02-10-2018, 11:50 PM   #30
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Old 02-11-2018, 02:14 AM   #31
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That was my thought Bob!!
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Old 02-19-2018, 03:12 PM   #32
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Good news from the charging system front. Installed a new trombetta solenoid - works like a champ!
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Old 02-19-2018, 04:02 PM   #33
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Good for u. You are now a Trombetta/BIRD expert.
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Old 02-19-2018, 04:39 PM   #34
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Old 02-19-2018, 04:59 PM   #35
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Does this mean I get to wear a Mortar Board? :-) :-) Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.
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Old 02-19-2018, 05:35 PM   #36
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I'm following you into battle: from now on!
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:36 PM   #37
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Funny now - I can talk smack after getting the ATS working and generator charging house batteries!

The only problem with not going to a RV "Repair" shop in KY - I cannot see those boys from Deliverance and no banjos playing.
First - those boys were from Georgia! Second - the Trombetta is not a reliable solenoid in our units. Part of the problem is it is a 12 volt solenoid made for intermittent use on golf cats and such. On our units while you are plugged into shore power or have the engine running is they both put out about 13.5 - 14.2 VDC. For extended periods of time this puts undue strain on the coils.

The below unit is rated for 15VDC and has better reliability for me so far. Direct bolt replacement.

White-Rodgers/586-108111

FWIW
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:51 PM   #38
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That's correct about Georgia - they'd learned how to play Bluegrass music.

I saw a number of replacements but stayed with the one from the wiring diagram. Even then, there are several models. The one in the drawings is a continuous but it is 12 volts.

Good news - everything back up and charging!
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Old 02-23-2018, 08:16 PM   #39
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Trombetta Bird

Been through two sets of these things now. I have since tossed it all out for a Precision circuits BIM 225. Very smart solid state device that will disconnect the chassis batteries after charge when you are connected to shore power. Or, vice versa will driving.
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Old 02-23-2018, 08:27 PM   #40
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Been through two sets of these things now. I have since tossed it all out for a Precision circuits BIM 225. Very smart solid state device that will disconnect the chassis batteries after charge when you are connected to shore power. Or, vice versa will driving.
Did you replace just the solenoid or the solenoid and the BIRD? What little I read, this seems much more straight forward.
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