Go Back   Thor Forums > Thor Tech Forums > Maintenance and Repair
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-11-2016, 10:58 AM   #1
Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
State: Pennsylvania
Posts: 37
THOR #5913
Coach Battery not charging While driving - 2006 Thor Four Winds class c

Hello!

Does anyone know if a 2006 Thor Four Winds should be charging the coach battery while driving?

I am having a heck of a time figuring this out as I am mostly an oil and tire rotation guy but would love to fix this problem if it should be charging from alternator power while driving.

House battery does charge by shore and generator.

It is a 31p.

Thanks all!!
__________________

__________________
KandT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2016, 12:28 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
EA37TS's Avatar
 
Brand: Entegra
Model: Entegra Accolade 37TS
State: Virginia
Posts: 3,515
THOR #1469
Quite a bit of discussion on this topic on the forum. You might want to do a search for BIRD and/or Trombetta and read the topics.

Yes, the coach batteries should be charged by the alternator when driving.
__________________

__________________
Dave
US Army (Ret)
2020 Entegra Accolade 37TS
2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk (Toad)
FMCA - F432054
EA37TS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2016, 12:35 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Four Winds 23U
State: Illinois
Posts: 476
THOR #992
I have a question that goes along with the original question. When recharging while driving does it charge the cab battery first then the coach or is it at the same time?
__________________
KNMIB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2016, 01:39 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axis 24.1
State: Florida
Posts: 611
THOR #4366
Quote:
Originally Posted by KNMIB View Post
I have a question that goes along with the original question. When recharging while driving does it charge the cab battery first then the coach or is it at the same time?
This would depend on what type of system your coach uses.
With the B.I.R.D there is a time delay after meeting a voltage requirement.
With 1989 Mallard we had an isolation relay was picked up as soon as the ignition was turned on.
Other systems charge the cranking battery first then the house battery(s).
__________________
2016 Axis 24.1 E-450 6 spd tranny
300 watts portable solar.
200 watts solar on the roof.
Wrangler JK dinghy
scrubjaysnest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2016, 02:57 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
bevedfelker's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2015 Vegas 24.1
State: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,308
THOR #2601
From what I've researched on Thor Vegas/Axis they use either a Battery Control Center or the BIRD/Trombetta combination. When charging off the alternator both systems operate the same. It charges the chassis battery first, and when fully charged, checks the charge of the coach batteries. If low, it charges them and then switches back to the chassis. One important factor, the USE/Store switch must be in Use for the coach batteries to charge.

Not sure what your system has but I'd be surprised if it didn't have a system that charges both battery banks. It would be some type of isolation system to keep the chassis and coach batteries separated because if the coach batteries were very low they could drain the chassis battery. So there will be some kind of isolation circuit/relay, a charge status circuit, and switching device/relay to switch between coach & chassis.
__________________
Ed & Bev Felker
Retired USAF Col and retired Nurse
Traveling with Lily & Bella ('Teddy Bear' breed)
2015 Vegas 24.1 (E-350)
bevedfelker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2016, 03:17 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Four Winds 23U
State: Illinois
Posts: 476
THOR #992
Ed I am sure my Four Winds works the same. I tested the store switch off and then on and the house battery charged complete while we where venturing across this beautiful country with it on. My new interstate batteries have made a huge difference on life. In the winter I keep a 5W solar charger on the house battery and as long as is starts out charged it keeps it up through our Illinois winters. Happy Travels
__________________
KNMIB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2016, 03:40 PM   #7
Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
State: Pennsylvania
Posts: 37
THOR #5913
Thank you all for posting. I have some diagnosis to do. My Schumacher read the alternator as working at the chassis battery and no charge coming into the house battery.

BOTH batteries die after about two weeks of no use and they are less than a year old. I am wondering if all the problems are connected? Maybe a short in the BIRD system??

Thanks again!
__________________
KandT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2016, 03:42 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
bevedfelker's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2015 Vegas 24.1
State: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,308
THOR #2601
Attached is a copy of the troubleshooting guide I have for RV Custom Products TH-1020 Battery Control Center found in newer Axis/Vegas models. Here is what it says about coach and chassis battery charging. It pretty well describes the charge levels needed for the BCC to switch between battery banks, and a description of how those banks are isolated from each other:

The interconnect relay parallels the coach and chassis batteries in the event it is desired to start the vehicle with a dead chassis battery. In addition, the relay controls charging of the batteries as a set. When the auxiliary start button at the driverís console is pressed, a ground will appear at P1-1. When not pressed, P1-1 is approximately +12vdc, measured with a high impedance voltmeter. Pressing the auxiliary start switch pulls in the interconnect relay immediately by way of the interconnect relay driver. Note that when the switch is released, the relay remains closed for about 2 sec. This is the normal delay built into the relay driver.

Normal charging of chassis and coach batteries as a set depends upon the source of charging. For example, if the coach is under way, when the chassis battery charges to 13.2vdc from the engine alternator, the interconnect relay will pull in after a 10-15sec. delay. If the engine were to be turned off, when the chassis/coach battery set discharges to 12.6vdc, the interconnect relay disengages after a 2sec. delay. When the coach is on shore power and the coach battery disconnect is engaged, the converter will charge the coach battery until it reaches 13.2vdc, at which time the interconnect relay will close after the 10-15sec. delay. As before, should shore power be disconnected, the coach/chassis battery set will discharge to 12.6vdc and the interconnect relay will release after a 2sec. delay. The interconnect relay requires 0.75adc for its coil whenever it is engaged.


I also uploaded another document I have showing the BIRD and Trombetta (isolation relay) setup on many of the Vegas/Axis so you can read how that integration works and look at the block diagram for how they are wired.
Attached Files
File Type: doc TH-1020 Troubleshooting guide.doc (35.0 KB, 100 views)
File Type: pdf Electric -- Alternator Charge House Battery BIRD.pdf (102.6 KB, 94 views)
__________________
Ed & Bev Felker
Retired USAF Col and retired Nurse
Traveling with Lily & Bella ('Teddy Bear' breed)
2015 Vegas 24.1 (E-350)
bevedfelker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2016, 09:27 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Four Winds 28A Class C
State: Vermont
Posts: 267
THOR #4117
My 2005 Four Winds charges the coach battery while driving. When it was a couple of years old the coach battery stopped being charged. I traced the problem to the solenoid that connects the coach battery to the chassis battery when the ignition is turned on.

In my Chevy chassis the solenoid is connected to the chassis battery positive by a short wire. You should be able to locate the solenoid by following the wires. The solenoid was installed up side down, I don' know if that matters???

I first checked to make sure the 12v from the ignition was reaching the solenoid to energize it. You could just measure the voltage on both sides of the solenoid, it should be the same when the ignition is on.

I replaced the solenoid with one I found on eBay. I think it was rated at 200 Amps. It has worked well for about 15 years.
__________________
tenbear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2016, 10:34 PM   #10
Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
State: Pennsylvania
Posts: 37
THOR #5913
Thanks all!!

Ten bear - I bet that is my problem and maybe is leaving a tiny short on both batteries. I am going to look tomorrow.

Any other experiences or opinions are appreciated!
__________________
KandT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2016, 02:04 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Four Winds 28A Class C
State: Vermont
Posts: 267
THOR #4117
On second thought, I probably bought the solenoid on Amazon and it may have been 150Amp continuous.
__________________
tenbear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 01:16 PM   #12
Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
State: Pennsylvania
Posts: 37
THOR #5913
Thanks - I ordered a new Trumbetta and hopefully my old corroded one is the problem
__________________
KandT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2016, 12:42 AM   #13
Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
State: Pennsylvania
Posts: 37
THOR #5913
New Solenoid came today and I am going to install tomorrow. Does anyone know if it makes a difference how the two "smaller" wires are connected?

Unfortunately, I bought this on ebay and didn't notice it was not a Trombetta as the original was but a chinese knock off. One could argue that the ad was misleading but I didn't read the it thoroughly so I will take the blame. Lesson learned.

Assuming this is my problem and it works I may upgrade to a better one. Does anyone know if there is any danger to increasing the amp capability? I would only guess that it may not engage the solenoid because of not enough current. I was thinking of going from 150 amp continuous to 200 - 12 volts.

Also, the one puzzle I can't answer is if my house battery is say 50% will it make a solid connection between the chassis batt and the house batt and thereby drain the chassis batt????? Since mine is a cheaper RV I don't think I have the BIRD system.

Thanks all - Really appreciate the help!!
__________________
KandT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2016, 01:23 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Four Winds 28A Class C
State: Vermont
Posts: 267
THOR #4117
Quote:
Originally Posted by KandT View Post
New Solenoid came today and I am going to install tomorrow. Does anyone know if it makes a difference how the two "smaller" wires are connected?

Unfortunately, I bought this on ebay and didn't notice it was not a Trombetta as the original was but a chinese knock off. One could argue that the ad was misleading but I didn't read the it thoroughly so I will take the blame. Lesson learned.

Assuming this is my problem and it works I may upgrade to a better one. Does anyone know if there is any danger to increasing the amp capability? I would only guess that it may not engage the solenoid because of not enough current. I was thinking of going from 150 amp continuous to 200 - 12 volts.

Also, the one puzzle I can't answer is if my house battery is say 50% will it make a solid connection between the chassis batt and the house batt and thereby drain the chassis batt????? Since mine is a cheaper RV I don't think I have the BIRD system.

Thanks all - Really appreciate the help!!
The two smaller wires energize the magnetic coil that closes the contacts. Either wire can go on either post, assuming that neither post is grounded.

Trombetta is only a brand name. It was probably selected by the builder more on price than any other reason. The Chinese knock off will probably perform just as well if not better. I replaced mine with another brand and it has lasted well over 10 years.

The Amp capacity only refers to the amount of current that the contacts are rated for. Increasing the current rating probably won't help since the maximum current passing thru the solenoid is probably much less than 150A. That of course depends on many things. The Alternator rating and your battery bank for example.

Your solenoid is only closed when your ignition switch is on (assuming your setup is like mine). If the engine is running when the ignition switch is on, the engine alternator will supply the current to the coach battery and the chassis battery will not be discharged, the alternator will keep it charged. If you turn the ignition on and don't run the engine, the alternator will not supply any current and the chassis or coach battery may get discharged.

Hope your problem is solved.
__________________
tenbear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2016, 01:29 AM   #15
Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
State: Pennsylvania
Posts: 37
THOR #5913
Thanks TenBear! This is the first time I did this type of work and I appreciate all the help. May seem simple but the first time through everything is new.

I am enjoying learning about my coach. It has mostly exceeded my expectations and the problems have been minor - Even though this problem is taking me a little while to figure out if I am right it is really pretty minor.

I am excited to get to work tomorrow morning!!
__________________
KandT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2016, 01:32 AM   #16
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axis 24.1
State: Florida
Posts: 611
THOR #4366
Quote:
Originally Posted by KandT View Post
New Solenoid came today and I am going to install tomorrow. Does anyone know if it makes a difference how the two "smaller" wires are connected?

Unfortunately, I bought this on ebay and didn't notice it was not a Trombetta as the original was but a chinese knock off. One could argue that the ad was misleading but I didn't read the it thoroughly so I will take the blame. Lesson learned.

Assuming this is my problem and it works I may upgrade to a better one. Does anyone know if there is any danger to increasing the amp capability? I would only guess that it may not engage the solenoid because of not enough current. I was thinking of going from 150 amp continuous to 200 - 12 volts.

Also, the one puzzle I can't answer is if my house battery is say 50% will it make a solid connection between the chassis batt and the house batt and thereby drain the chassis batt????? Since mine is a cheaper RV I don't think I have the BIRD system.

Thanks all - Really appreciate the help!!
While the contact current rating is important, 150 amp is fine, the relay coil voltage rating is more important. It needs to be 14 to 15 volts continuous. A 12 continuous rating will have the coil running hotter and may lead to early coil failure. This rating can be hard to find and is why I go to the auto parts store.

Here is one I'm looking at.: http://www.pac-audio.com/PACProductD...ons_072006.pdf
__________________
2016 Axis 24.1 E-450 6 spd tranny
300 watts portable solar.
200 watts solar on the roof.
Wrangler JK dinghy
scrubjaysnest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2016, 01:35 AM   #17
Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
State: Pennsylvania
Posts: 37
THOR #5913
My local auto parts stores didn't seem to have continuous solenoids - only starters and the like. I don't think I saw 14-15 volts but I didn't look for them. Could be why the first one burnt out. Thanks!
__________________
KandT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2016, 01:52 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axis 24.1
State: Florida
Posts: 611
THOR #4366
Quote:
Originally Posted by KandT View Post
My local auto parts stores didn't seem to have continuous solenoids - only starters and the like. I don't think I saw 14-15 volts but I didn't look for them. Could be why the first one burnt out. Thanks!
Just added a link to the one I'm looking at in my previous post. 200 amp contacts and up to 16 Vdc coil. Sometimes with auto parts stores you have try different names like isolation relay. Sometimes they are in the audio section.
__________________
2016 Axis 24.1 E-450 6 spd tranny
300 watts portable solar.
200 watts solar on the roof.
Wrangler JK dinghy
scrubjaysnest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2016, 02:00 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Four Winds 28A Class C
State: Vermont
Posts: 267
THOR #4117
If you are planning on doing much more of this type of work it would be good to buy a multimeter.
__________________
tenbear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2016, 02:01 AM   #20
Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
State: Pennsylvania
Posts: 37
THOR #5913
Thanks Scrub - that looks WAY better built than what I bought. I am starting to understand everything now so I can check out the auto parts stores tomorrow!
__________________

__________________
KandT is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Thor Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.




All times are GMT. The time now is 07:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
×