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Old 03-06-2019, 11:35 PM   #1
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Def heater issue

Has anyone else had an issue with def line heater low voltage ? Fuse is good.
2014 Pallazo D P .
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Old 03-06-2019, 11:46 PM   #2
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If you have a Ford, check with Ford dealer. They have a recall order on some
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:24 AM   #3
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no, sure haven't... how do you know what it is? a dash alert?
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:29 AM   #4
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no, sure haven't... how do you know what it is? a dash alert?
Yes , error code. Frieghtliner told me that if it is not fuse it could be in harness or the def line heater itself.
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:37 AM   #5
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2nd error code has to do with the 1st which would shut engine down and put motorhome at 5mph crawl which means I need to have a mobile service fix at the house.
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:40 AM   #6
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sounds like it might not be recognizing the heating element in the tank, to keep the liquid from drying out/hardening, which is what it does if left out in the air, over time. It probably won't render any harm or cause any driving issues, until you have a chance for either FL or a service center, like Cummins, to look at it. Actually, Cummins would be the BEST place to take it.
You have a 5 year, 50,000 miles warranty on DEF and Emissions related Cummins items.

The only issue we ever had was at about 25,000 miles when the 'engine outline' yellow alert came on, which is for EMISSIONS related problems. After FL and Cummins diagnosed it over the phone as a probably NoX sensor issue, they said to just keep driving until I could find time to schedule a visit, but not to worry about miles or speed since it would not derate the engine.
Cummins, in Fort Wayne, IN, did the service. I stayed overnight at their 50amp hookup, in their gated lot, and they drove it in first thing, and had the Nox sensor changed by mid-day.... never any issue since. Good people.
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Old 03-07-2019, 02:07 AM   #7
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sounds like it might not be recognizing the heating element in the tank, to keep the liquid from drying out/hardening, which is what it does if left out in the air, over time. It probably won't render any harm or cause any driving issues, until you have a chance for either FL or a service center, like Cummins, to look at it. Actually, Cummins would be the BEST place to take it.
You have a 5 year, 50,000 miles warranty on DEF and Emissions related Cummins items.

The only issue we ever had was at about 25,000 miles when the 'engine outline' yellow alert came on, which is for EMISSIONS related problems. After FL and Cummins diagnosed it over the phone as a probably NoX sensor issue, they said to just keep driving until I could find time to schedule a visit, but not to worry about miles or speed since it would not derate the engine.
Cummins, in Fort Wayne, IN, did the service. I stayed overnight at their 50amp hookup, in their gated lot, and they drove it in first thing, and had the Nox sensor changed by mid-day.... never any issue since. Good people.
Made my calls to Fleetwood , tomorrow I will call Cummings.
I did see that they do have a recall on my year of engine concerning emissions.
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Old 03-07-2019, 02:14 AM   #8
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Fleetwood?

oh, I thought you had a THOR Palazzo
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Old 03-07-2019, 03:25 AM   #9
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Fleetwood?

oh, I thought you had a THOR Palazzo
Oops, I meant to say Frieghtliner.
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Old 03-07-2019, 03:43 AM   #10
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So many YouTube videos of different types of issues with def systems. I will be looking for shorts in lines tomorrow.
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Old 03-07-2019, 03:57 AM   #11
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Rodents love chewing on wires. I zapped this guy last year after he nested next to water storage tank. It chewed wires to quantity sensors. I am 99% sure I took it to Texas and back.
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Old 03-08-2019, 02:57 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by roncalderz@gmail.com View Post
Has anyone else had an issue with def line heater low voltage ? Fuse is good.
2014 Pallazo D P .
Which def line is it?
You can test the def line by a ohm's test, ohms vary depending on the length of the line and since you said the def heater fuse is good then most likely a open circuit in the def heater.
The def heater lines are numbered and each end of the line has a number i.e def line heater 1 and 2 would be the same line just different ends.

They are easy to replace, they are usually blue in color and depending on setup can have 4 or more lines 1 goes from the def tank to pump and pump to def doser then a return either goes back to tank or can go back to pump with another return line from pump to tank.
They will have a tag on each line denothing which heater line it is and on each end is a white plastic lock you pinch the 2 ends together to unlock and pull it off,be careful to not let def get into the plug as it will ruin the connector,if you replace this yourself look at how the line is routed and be sure to route the same way as you do not want any loops or area's that the def get trapped in a low spot as def freezes at 11 degrees and can break the line.
If you need anything else let me know I work on these systems everyday.
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Old 03-08-2019, 03:08 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by TurnerFam View Post
sounds like it might not be recognizing the heating element in the tank, to keep the liquid from drying out/hardening, which is what it does if left out in the air, over time. It probably won't render any harm or cause any driving issues, until you have a chance for either FL or a service center, like Cummins, to look at it. Actually, Cummins would be the BEST place to take it.
You have a 5 year, 50,000 miles warranty on DEF and Emissions related Cummins items.

The only issue we ever had was at about 25,000 miles when the 'engine outline' yellow alert came on, which is for EMISSIONS related problems. After FL and Cummins diagnosed it over the phone as a probably NoX sensor issue, they said to just keep driving until I could find time to schedule a visit, but not to worry about miles or speed since it would not derate the engine.
Cummins, in Fort Wayne, IN, did the service. I stayed overnight at their 50amp hookup, in their gated lot, and they drove it in first thing, and had the Nox sensor changed by mid-day.... never any issue since. Good people.
That's not accurate, the def tank heating element is heated off engine coolant and there are 3 sensors in the tank a temp sensor ,level sensor and a def quality sensor, when the tank temp sensor detects temp low enough to freeze it opens the electric valve on the top of tank and heats the def and pump and turns on the def line heaters,if ignored it will go into a mild derate at 25% power reduction for awhile and will then progress to whats called a scr driver induced derate with red and yellow check engine light and will limit speed to 5 mph.
So do not ignore this as you will end up paying a tow bill and freightliners 100+ dollar an hour repair as it can not be repaired on the road
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Old 03-08-2019, 03:34 AM   #14
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Thank you simidrm , I can comprehend some of what you are saying. I crawled under chassis today to look for any visual signs of damage . When you say lines you are talking about wires or harness ? This is way over my head but I try to learn as much as possible so that I might be able to fix it if it happens again.
After talking to Cummings tech today he asked me about temps. It has definitely been cold enough ,8įbelow , for def to freeze. Daytime temps the last couple of days have been mid 40s.
Tech said it is possible def is still frozen in lines. I read that def lines purge when engine is shut down. Can you confirm that ? At this point I think I will fork out $$$ for Frieghtliner Mobile repair.
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Old 03-08-2019, 12:05 PM   #15
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"At this point I think I will fork out $$$ for Frieghtliner Mobile repair."

Good move!!! when in doubt, default to common sense. DEF is 66.6% water (33.3% pig pee). If you're in cold weather and tank heater (regardless of how it works) isn't working...not good. This regen system rules the operation of the engine and will stop you cold if it senses something not right.
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Old 03-08-2019, 02:16 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton View Post
"At this point I think I will fork out $$$ for Frieghtliner Mobile repair."

Good move!!! when in doubt, default to common sense. DEF is 66.6% water (33.3% pig pee). If you're in cold weather and tank heater (regardless of how it works) isn't working...not good. This regen system rules the operation of the engine and will stop you cold if it senses something not right.
Yes I was told by Frieghtliner that some people will drive 5 miles and others 150 miles before engine shuts down , I don't want to roll the dice on this one.
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Old 03-08-2019, 02:23 PM   #17
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...there is nothing in the DEF or Emissions related systems that will suddenly 'STOP' your engine - that is pure bunk. Cummins emissions related systems are not part of your ENGINE, only the emissions. The only related action is due to a low, or lack of, DEF liquid, which can send a signal to the engine to 'derate' it, meaning that it will govern your engine output to a lower mph speed, but has nothing to do with shutting it down or off.

The inherent reason behind any derate action is due to the government rules. They are striving to motivate drivers and owners to maintain the DEF liquid levels so that the system can properly take care of the emissions output. The derate is not to 'penalize' anyone, or cause an issue while on the road, or to limit them from getting to a place where they can add DEF, but only to give a firm warning that driving without DEF will not be allowed at typical highway speeds.
You could drive this lower speed all day long, if you wish.
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Old 03-08-2019, 02:37 PM   #18
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Isn't the end result the same ? It is 50 miles to TransWest on a 75 mph Highway. I still don't want to get caught going any less than 55.
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Old 03-08-2019, 02:50 PM   #19
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"...there is nothing in the DEF or Emissions related systems that will suddenly 'STOP' your engine - that is pure bunk. Cummins emissions related systems are not part of your ENGINE, only the emissions. The only related action is due to a low, or lack of, DEF liquid, which can send a signal to the engine to 'derate' it, meaning that it will govern your engine output to a lower mph speed, but has nothing to do with shutting it down or off."


Perhaps my "stop you cold" was an exaggeration...but...ANY issue with DEF will eventually STOP your engine. I was involved in commercial truck sales when this program was first forced on diesels. I've owned a 2011 Duramax since new. 2011 was the first year this was mandated for light trucks. Low fluid, poor quality fluid, failure of the system to regenerate correctly and several other symptoms will give you warnings as to how many more miles you have till empty, how many more miles you have to a forced reduction in speed of 55 MPH, how many more miles you have to a forced reduction in speed of 5 MPH and a final warning of forced no re-start. It's not limited to low or lack off fluid only. Forcing my vehicle to a government chosen reduced speed is a forced penalty any way you look at it. There should be a one-time emergency bypass to get you where you can have it refilled, repaired or replaced. If you were in the middle of nowhere and had an issue other than low or poor quality fluid requiring service by a commercial truck mechanic, it could lead to huge tow charges. It isn't just Cummins...it's every diesel driven vehicle. Caterpillar chose to not install the system and just pay the fine...interesting how they are no longer in the engine business.
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Old 03-08-2019, 05:19 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton View Post
"...there is nothing in the DEF or Emissions related systems that will suddenly 'STOP' your engine - that is pure bunk. Cummins emissions related systems are not part of your ENGINE, only the emissions. The only related action is due to a low, or lack of, DEF liquid, which can send a signal to the engine to 'derate' it, meaning that it will govern your engine output to a lower mph speed, but has nothing to do with shutting it down or off."


Perhaps my "stop you cold" was an exaggeration...but...ANY issue with DEF will eventually STOP your engine. I was involved in commercial truck sales when this program was first forced on diesels. I've owned a 2011 Duramax since new. 2011 was the first year this was mandated for light trucks. Low fluid, poor quality fluid, failure of the system to regenerate correctly and several other symptoms will give you warnings as to how many more miles you have till empty, how many more miles you have to a forced reduction in speed of 55 MPH, how many more miles you have to a forced reduction in speed of 5 MPH and a final warning of forced no re-start. It's not limited to low or lack off fluid only. Forcing my vehicle to a government chosen reduced speed is a forced penalty any way you look at it. There should be a one-time emergency bypass to get you where you can have it refilled, repaired or replaced. If you were in the middle of nowhere and had an issue other than low or poor quality fluid requiring service by a commercial truck mechanic, it could lead to huge tow charges. It isn't just Cummins...it's every diesel driven vehicle. Caterpillar chose to not install the system and just pay the fine...interesting how they are no longer in the engine business.
I appreciate any and all feedback.
I am truly amazed at how much info can be found here. Just wish I had the same passion for learning when I was a young man. Thanks.
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