Final report harris batteries and wfco charger/converter

[DocMike]

After what I have gone thru with Harris batteries, I am a bit skeptical of dealing with a company named Trojan.

Doc

[bevedfelker]

Doc -- be sure to check which PD converter will fit in the space that the WFCO will be vacating. I saw on another thread that the PD was different from the one you were referencing. Can't find the thread but I know someone else on the forum made the swap and maybe they'll chime in with what part number to order. After all your aggravation I'd hate for you to get a converter that won't fit the space.

[bevedfelker]

Doc-- here is a thread you might find interesting: New Converter: Pd 9260 Or Pd 4655? - Problems, Solutions & After Market - Outback RV Owners Forum
also this one:
RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Tech Issues: WFCO 8955 Charge Test & Question

From what I can determine the PD9260 is better if you do a lot of boondocking, but is harder to install when replacing the WFCO 8955. The PD fuse board is a little difficult to fit in the WFCO fuse board place. It seems several folks had fit problems with the 9260.

The PD4655 is designed as a direct replacement for the WFCO8955. You can reuse the existing WFCO fuse board if you also do the PD pendant mod. There were no comments about the converter not fitting the WFCO converter space since the 4655 was designed as a drop in replacement.

If I were doing it -- I's go with the 4655 and PD Pendant.

[bevedfelker]

And by the way -- after what Harris did to you, you would have thought they'd have used a Trojan.

[DocMike]

Ed,
Thanks for the information. I will see what he has to say when I call tomorrow.

Going to go look at those threads you posted above.

Doc

[mcr1010]

Originally Posted by groswald

Doc,

SNip
Do I "know" if WFCO units are good or bad? I don't. They may be great and Harris is just ducking responsibility for a poor product. But, the evidence, circumstantial as it is, has me ready to drop in a PD unit at the first sign of trouble. And, I probably won't go with Harris batteries should I need to replace them either.

Thankfully we've had no issues with batteries or converter, other than the converter is really noisy when running under load.

Snip
Regards,

Randy

Same here Randy, no converter or battery problems so far, but I will pull the old one out and install a PD at the first blip. I just hope the converter does not go out on a trip.
For ref. purpose:
I have the WFCO WF-8955PEC converter which is the 55amp. I would guess that most of the Axis-Vegas have the same converter. According to the Progressive Dynamics web site, the drop in replacement is their #PD4655. The web link is below in case no one has posted this info before. The PD4655 has the built in Charge Wizard which is a real plus. I had a PD converter with a Charge Wizard in a trailer with two 6volt batteries for about 5 years with no problems. Still going strong when I sold it.
4600 Series Upgrade or Replacement Power Converters

There are some downloads on the same page that go into detail how to install the PD4655 into the WF-8955.

There is one caveat. I ballpark measured the bay containing my converter and got clearances of 11.5 L x 4.0 H x 7.25 D. The PD4655 size stated on their site is 13.25"W x 8"D x 5.38"H. So, before I would buy one, I would call the factory and ask about the fit. Could be that the bottom of the WFCO panel (plastic) has to be removed to provide the clearance. I did not go over the installation inst. in detail and maybe that is covered about the size difference.

[DocMike]

All,

I purchased two new Exide Nautilus Marine Deep Cycle Batteries (27MDC) with 550 cold cranking Amps at 0 degrees, 675 Marine cranking Amps at 32 degrees, 182 minutes reserve capacity at 25 amps,105 amp hourscontinues operation time, 182 reserve capacity, Lead/Antimony construction, enveloped separators surround the plates, thicker grids designed for manycycles, Stainless steel threaded and SAE posts provide ease of installation andpermit uncluttered wiring harness for electrical connections, with a 12 mo. warranty that will be honored at Camping World.

So, I am going to work on the assumption that my WF8900 Converter/charger is and has always been running fine and is more than adequate for the job; that it had nothing to do with the "sulfated death" of my earlier batteries. Now that I am incharge of the RV I will be pulling all maintenance on the batteries...so time will tell if my assumption is correct.

My plan is to eliminate possible problems one at a time, starting with the "assumption" that the Harris batteries were the problem.

Please recommend if there is anything I need to verify with/for/on the WF8900 before I begin testing my assumption. I will contact Harris or WFCO in 6 months, sooner if there is a problem.

FYI: Harris recommended looking at the Converter/charger, Inteli-power PD9200series.

Doc.

[bevedfelker]

Doc: Did you run the tests that the WFCO folks recommended? I'd call them again and tell them you replaced the batteries, give them the specs like you did above, and ask again what tests can you run to confirm the status of the converter. Also ask how to verify the converter goes through the three modes correctly.

I agree there is probably nothing wrong with the converter, but it would be good to verify that if there are tests you can perform.

[DocMike]

Ed,

I had CW run the earlier test recommended.

The posting above is a modified copy of what I just sent to WFCO earlier this evening; amazing "like minds"!

Keep the ideas coming in.

Doc

[DocMike]

Ed and all,

This is what I got to my question about tests to run to confirm the three phases of converter:

"No there is not. All three phases are automatic. Absorption is normal operating mode, Bulk is when the converter starts to foldover on itself due to a load approx. 10% over rating. Float is a storage mode which occurs when the load in the RV is reduced to almost nothing but the battery after 44 hours of seeing no additional load the converter drops down to13.2 (Slow trickle charge) until a load is applied then goes back to absorption."

So, I will monitor water intake and any issues as they develop.

Doc

[Nursx2]

[QUOTE=DocMike;20323]Chance, I have no idea and to paraphrase my favorite childhood TV Series Star Trek "Damn it Chance, I'm a doctor not an electrician"..

LOVE IT!!!!!!!!

[RustyJC]

Originally Posted by DocMike

Chance, I have no idea and to paraphrase my favorite childhood TV Series Star Trek "Damn it Chance, I'm a doctor not an electrician"..

Star Trek, Season 1, Episode 25, "The Devil in the Dark". Upon encountering the wounded Horta, Bones tells Kirk "Damn it Jim, I'm a doctor not a stonemason."

Now back to your regularly scheduled battery/converter/inverter thread.

Rusty

[Chance]

Originally Posted by DocMike

All,

I purchased two new Exide Nautilus Marine Deep Cycle Batteries (27MDC) with 550 cold cranking Amps at 0 degrees, 675 Marine cranking Amps at 32 degrees, 182 minutes reserve capacity at 25 amps,105 amp hourscontinues operation time, 182 reserve capacity, Lead/Antimony construction, enveloped separators surround the plates, thicker grids designed for manycycles, Stainless steel threaded and SAE posts provide ease of installation andpermit uncluttered wiring harness for electrical connections, with a 12 mo. warranty that will be honored at Camping World.

....cut.....

I think it helps to understand battery limitations; one being that when discharged quickly you get less total energy out of them. That's why two batteries will provide more than double the capacity.

Your specs above illustrate it clearly. The same battery that gives you 105 Amp-hours during a 20-hour discharge (that's 5.25 Amps X 20 hours) will only give you 25 Amps X 182 minutes (25 Amps X 3.03 hours = 75.8 Amp-hours).

And we should consider that's to 100% discharge. If we "roughly" limit discharge to around 50% of battery capacity to get a reasonable life out of them, then we are looking at only 52.5 Amp-hours if discharged very slowly over 20 hours (at only 2.6 Amps which won't even run one TV) or 38 Amp-hours over 3-hours (12.5 Amps for 3 hours which is only 150 watts).

Anyway, you can see from above that with only one battery it doesn't take much use to deplete it. With two batteries or double the capacity it's much better -- but still easy to run down if not careful.


Where I think it gets complicated quickly is when we start to run high-power appliances off an inverter. A microwave or coffee maker can easily pull around 1,500 watts which can run a battery down in a few minutes. That's because the amount of energy we can get out of lead acid batteries like yours at 150 to 200 Amps is much much less than at 5 to 25 Amps.

[DocMike]

Rusty and Darren,

"Live long and prosper"...(and do a lot of RV'ing).

Doc

[DocMike]

Chance,

No inverter here, but the DW's hair dryer...now that could be a problem (for the batteries if not mentioned and for me if mentioned). I will have to discretely observe usage of said dryer and try to have the generator on!

Doc

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by DocMike

DW's hair dryer

She has a 12V hair dryer?

[DocMike]

Thank goodness no, we would surely kill the batteries. She loves the Vegas with all the comforts of home...it is as close to "camping" as she wants to get.

[Chance]

It may not be that bad with your two large batteries if the hair dryer was used for only a few minutes. It's about the same as a microwave or coffee maker -- not ideal but OK as long as it's only for short duration.

[brucev]

I have the same problem with my new 2015 Hurricane 27K and Harris Batteries. they have not held a charge since new in August. they won't even last a week or two. I called Thor and they said to use a secondary charge if they are dead, did that and they died within two weeks. Yes the switch is in Store position. Dealer told me to forget it, Thor won't warranty batteries, even when they were useless at the time of sale, albeit a hidden defect that I didn't find until it was off the lot. I guess it is time to bite the bullet and install Interstates. Thanks for the posts!

[acsnook]

CW replaced my 2 house batteries a month after purchase with Exide batteries. I guess I lucked out..