Five 5 Star Tuning question

[gmtech16450yz]

Hahaha. The hook is set, now all I have to do is reel you in. lol.


Seriously though, the whole world of engine "tuning" is amazing. Being able to change a couple values in a table, load it into your car and immediately feel a difference is incredibly addicting. Like I said, I've been doing this for a living for many decades and I still learn new things every day. It's actually the most fun and rewarding thing I've had in all the things I've done in my automotive career. Changing jets in a carb or moving a distributor was ok, but sitting at your computer and changing some numbers that result in higher hp numbers on a dyno is pretty cool. The constant learning part is what's addicting. NOBODY knows all there is to know about digital engine management. It's just too complicated. For those that are thinking, "Geez, all you have to do is advance the ignition timing and give it some more fuel", yeah right. Try modifying the calibrations on an engine like the GM LNF with it's turbo/direct injection/dual VVT cams, with it's Bosch E69 ECM and it's 6000 something tables and you'll soon see it's not that easy to get it right. And it's REALLY easy to get it wrong and blow an engine.

One little example is actually in the screenshots I posted. There are 4 tables labeled "Optimum Spark" on certain engines. For years nobody knew or understood what the tables actually did. The guys at HPTuners (including the owner himself) didn't know what they did. I figured them out and taught everyone on the HPTuners forum what they did and how to manipulate them. VERY short answer ended up being they had little to do with "spark" and everything to do with throttle control. WTF??? So if you ended up putting the wrong values in any one of these tables, you could end up hitting a certain load cell and your throttle would go wide open uncontrollably. Yikes. It's basically a "lookup" table, a table that another table(s) uses to determine an output. It's like a giant web of interconnected data that controls everything from your foot to the tires on the road.

Sooooo, on the Ford engines in our RV specifically, unfortunately it would be a pretty steep learning curve without much of any support. The HPTuners forum is amazing, still one of my favorite forums. But there's pretty much zero people on there tuning late model Ford truck engines. Some Mustang engine stuff, but most of the tuning world is working on GM stuff. If you had an LS3 or something like that and wanted to learn to tune, I'd say go for it. There are TONS of smart guys willing to help. Starting with one of these Ford engines and having very little to no online support for help would be tough.

On the HPTuners hardware, it would be more than $300 to actually edit calibrations. You'd be able to scan at that price, but not tune. And on top of that, since these engines don't have knock sensors, you'd really need the Pro version so you had analog inputs. I have a $500 aftermarket knock sensor system in my RV, it's output goes into my HPTuners hardware via the analog inputs so I can log knock readings along with everything else. That little feature would be $1100 if you were starting from scratch. (~$600 for Pro version of HPT and $500 for knock sensor hardware.)

The other big part of tuning is logging. IF you tune, I STRONGLY BELIEVE you should log constantly. Logging shows you if you've done something that could be damaging to the engine. Without that, you're shooting in the dark at a moving target. That's the part that's missing with the 5 Star approach, they have NO IDEA how your particular engine is actually running. It's basically what we call a "Canned Tune". It's a one-size-fits-all basic set of changes they do, and if you don't like it they either cut back or increase those changes. Pretty basic but easier and somewhat safe.

If I haven't discouraged you or anyone else lurking(lol), go ahead and download the HPTuners software. I can give you some tune and log files to look at so you can see what it's all about. If ALL you did was to change a couple easy things like PE Delay and ignition timing, you'd definitely be able to feel those changes when driving.

Hahah. You guys want more? Just let me know.

This is what I look at when I'm driving my Vegas down the highway... lol.

[JamieGeek]

"Wow look at that scenery!"

"Nope, too busy looking at fuel trim tables... let me know if I'm about to hit something..."

LOL

[Bob Denman]

Bob actually shorted-out his keyboard with heavy amounts of drooling...

Fortunately: there are several spares available...

[gmtech16450yz]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

"Wow look at that scenery!"

"Nope, too busy looking at fuel trim tables... let me know if I'm about to hit something..."

LOL

Hahaha. I was thinking more like... "But officer, I didn't know you weren't supposed to have a giant 27" screen next to you while driving. It IS "hands-free" isn't it?"

[The_Breeze]

Originally Posted by gmtech16450yz

Hahaha. I was thinking more like... "But officer, I didn't know you weren't supposed to have a giant 27" screen next to you while driving. It IS "hands-free" isn't it?"

No - no - no. That's when you tell the officer "You just pulled me over because mine's bigger than yours". If it's a she, there's likely a twinkle in her eye and a phone number on the back of that ticket.

You have seen the cops with monitors in their cars right?

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by RvEd

No - no - no. That's when you tell the officer "You just pulled me over because mine's bigger than yours". If it's a she, there's likely a twinkle in her eye and a phone number on the back of that ticket.

You have seen the cops with monitors in their cars right?

Cops have had monitors for quite some time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1aIGqrGqnU

Hate it when they have scmods

[Bob Denman]

But they were "on a Mission from God".

[The_Breeze]

Originally Posted by gmtech16450yz

…it would be more than $300 to actually edit calibrations. You'd be able to scan at that price, but not tune….(~$600 for Pro version of HPT and $500 for knock sensor hardware.)

Maybe you can clean this up for me. I went to their web site. The VCM Suite downloads and MSI file (non-beta version). Its only 147mb. Does this file then in turn download from the web somewhere? Is the download a trial version that eventually prompts you to buy a full license and that’s where the $600 comes in? From their web site: “Package the MPVI2 together with VCM Editor and VCM Scanner, which make up the essentials of VCM Suite.” This is the 147mb file I described.

The MPVI2 is required to upload edits. I thought maybe that’s where they made their money, because I’ve seen that too. You can download the software for free but you need this little doohickey here or the software’s useless.

The pro feature says ‘Available Soon’ so not sure what’s up with that. What are ‘credits’ and how do they work? I saw those on the ‘Supported Vehicles’ page (re: “Single Vehicle Ford or Universal Credits”). I’m going to (watch out) ‘ASSUME’ the coach needs the Super Duty V10, which is 2 credits (or $100). So all said and done it should $300 for MPVI2 and $100 for 2 credits, so $400 total? And by the way, if you’re a newbie (like me) and don’t want to blow up your motor, don’t forget to buy our beginner’s guide – to the tune of $500. So, I see where this is going and gaining an appreciation for your statement. It could be a tad more than $1100 when all is said and done.

I’m hesitant to download trial packages as the uninstall rarely cleans up after itself very well. I’ve had to manually troubleshoot and clean up more than my share or servers because some clown wanted to ‘try’ a piece of software. I don’t want to be that clown. It’s like me laying a boxed end wrench to rest on your battery. It can add a lot of spark to your life and you just don’t do it.

I may be reading more into this than there really is so I’m hoping you can shed some light on my resulting confusion.

[The_Breeze]

I downloaded the software. I like the play-file feature in the scanner dialog. The editor is a little overwhelming right now. I'm usually a quick study. Let's see how I do. TV reception can be pretty bad most of the time. Local channels leave a lot to be desired. This will be like reading a book instead. Why do images of Rodney Dangerfield and Back To School keep coming to mind?


Just call me Grasshopper...

[gmtech16450yz]

Originally Posted by RvEd

I downloaded the software. I like the play-file feature in the scanner dialog


Just call me Grasshopper...

Hahahaha. Ok but I'm gonna warn you, it's addicting. If you're not careful before you know it you're going to be jumping up and down like a kid at christmas about stupid stuff like the fact your engine comes with factory widebands. lol.

What year and size is your engine? I'll post a factory tune here for you to look at.

[The_Breeze]

Originally Posted by gmtech16450yz

Hahahaha. Ok but I'm gonna warn you, it's addicting. If you're not careful before you know it you're going to be jumping up and down like a kid at christmas about stupid stuff like the fact your engine comes with factory widebands. lol.

What year and size is your engine? I'll post a factory tune here for you to look at.

I'll PM you so you can send me the file.

I caught your build on youtube. You're a regular light weight, aren't you?
LOL - JK!!! Seriously - nice job.

[gmtech16450yz]

Here, try to open these in the editor. One is for a '10 F150 5.4L V8 and the other is for an '18 F150 5.0L V8. There isn't a single Ford V10 file in the HPTuners tune repository. You might need the Beta version to open the '18 file. These should scare you away. lol.

They're transitioning from the older MPVI to the new one. They don't even have the "Pro" interface pieces yet for the new hardware. Yes, it would cost you $100 to be able to edit your engine. You need the hardware to both scan data and to download calibration files from vehicles. You can do those two things all you want for no additional charges. To save calibration files, edit them or upload them back into a vehicle, you need to have a license for that vehicle. (That's the $100 part.) Once you license that vehicle to your hardware, you can scan, download, edit and upload all the times you want. I've put literally thousands of tune files into and out of single vehicles, there is no limit to how many times you can edit and upload tune files.

This forum doesn't allow me to attach .hpt files so after you download these, change the file extensions from .txt to .hpt BEFORE you try to open them.

[The_Breeze]

Thank you but it won't open the files and wants to download them as php files, which means I'm getting to the php page (upload functionality) and not to the actual files you uploaded.


I also discovered it installed folders under my user profile on my C drive. That's unacceptable. I have a few registry hacks to do to move them to my data drive before I can continue. They usually let you do that in option settings and I see a few config files. We'll see where this leads.


I'll catch up with you after I finish. Thanks again for sharing this.