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Old 10-17-2018, 10:05 PM   #1
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Generator Question - Thor Vegas 25.2

I have a 2015 Thor Vegas 25.2. I was dry camping last week, had let the coach batteries get too low and they would not crank the generator. I tried the button on the dash which I assume uses the chassis battery to crank the generator, but it would not the start the generator either. It would not even crank over. The chassis battery was charged because I was able to crank the engine. Has anyone run into this problem before?

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Dan
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:28 PM   #2
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The button on the dash allows you to crank the chassis with the coach batteries...not the other way around. you probably figured it out...crank the chassis and let it charge the coach batteries for a while, then start the generator. Do you have AGS?
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:30 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton View Post
The button on the dash allows you to crank the chassis with the coach batteries...not the other way around. you probably figured it out...crank the chassis and let it charge the coach batteries for a while, then start the generator. Do you have AGS?
On Axis/Vegas units the button on the dash simply shorts the two batteries together, and thus you can start one with the other either way--at least that is the way it works on my 2014.

Much like jumping a car, however, you have to hold it down for a little bit so that the "dead" battery gets some charge before cranking things.

Starting the V-10 and letting it run to charge things up for a bit should also have worked.
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:32 PM   #4
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Maybe mine too...only Thor keeps that info in the Krusty Krab Safe. If that were the case, why didn't his generator crank? He said the chassis batteries were still strong enough to crank the engine.
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:36 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton View Post
Maybe mine too...only Thor keeps that info in the Krusty Krab Safe. If that were the case, why didn't his generator crank? He said the chassis batteries were still strong enough to crank the engine.
That is true but there could be any number of (ahem, cough cough, "Thor") reasons. His model is only 1 year newer than mine and thus I'm not sure if he has the BCC like I do, or the BIRD/Trombetta setup.
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:42 PM   #6
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So, Danny Boy...are you still there? What did you to to resolve the issue? I'm heading that way now to help...please let me know!!!
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Old 10-17-2018, 11:00 PM   #7
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The emergency start switch "should" work both ways as all it does is close a solenoid to short the positive sides of the chassis and house batteries together, assuming the solenoid and BIRD/BIM work correctly to begin wih.
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Old 10-18-2018, 01:34 AM   #8
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There are separate switches on the dash: one to start the generator and a separate switch for an emergency start for the engine. It makes sense to me that the emergency start for the engine would pull from the coach batteries. It would also make sense to me that the button on the dash to start the generator would pull from the chassis battery since the generator start button on the panel pulls from the coach batteries. Does this make sense?

What is AGS? What is BCC? What is BIRD/BIM?


Thanks!
Dan
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Old 10-18-2018, 01:52 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny boy View Post
There are separate switches on the dash: one to start the generator and a separate switch for an emergency start for the engine. It makes sense to me that the emergency start for the engine would pull from the coach batteries. It would also make sense to me that the button on the dash to start the generator would pull from the chassis battery since the generator start button on the panel pulls from the coach batteries. Does this make sense?

What is AGS? What is BCC? What is BIRD/BIM?


Thanks!
Dan
You have to hold the Emergency Start when trying to start the engine or generator from the non-normal batteries.

AGS - Automatic Generator Start (when the house battery's voltage gets too low he generator starts to charge them)
BCC - Battery Control Cnter
BIM - Battery Isolation Monitor
BIRD - Battery Isolation Relay Delay
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Old 10-18-2018, 01:59 AM   #10
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We went dry camping this summer, once at a state park. After one night in the morning our coach batteries were both dead and the engine battery also dead. This is a 2017 camper and I don't see why this would happen. Fortunately we were able to get a jump start at the campgrounds to get home. When my husband did a battery check on the water in the batteries, two cells were very low. He feels the batteries need replacing. I know we must have kept the water pump on all night because we had a small child with us and a night light for him to get him to sleep. Would that have totally drained all three batteries?
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Old 10-18-2018, 02:01 AM   #11
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We had the same problem, dead house batteries and genny would not start. I never thought to try the dash switch. I took a car jump starter, hooked it to one of the house batteries (ours are 12 volt), turned the unit on, and the wife started the genny! Whew, it is cold in Des Moines this time of year! Will use the switch next time.
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Old 10-18-2018, 02:50 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Tfryman View Post
You have to hold the Emergency Start when trying to start the engine or generator from the non-normal batteries.

AGS - Automatic Generator Start (when the house battery's voltage gets too low he generator starts to charge them)
BCC - Battery Control Cnter
BIM - Battery Isolation Monitor
BIRD - Battery Isolation Relay Delay
I'm pretty sure I did hold the Generator start button (on the dash), but the generator never began to crank over. I'm wondering if there is a problem with this switch.

Dan
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Old 10-18-2018, 02:53 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by JamieGeek View Post
On Axis/Vegas units the button on the dash simply shorts the two batteries together, and thus you can start one with the other either way--at least that is the way it works on my 2014.

Much like jumping a car, however, you have to hold it down for a little bit so that the "dead" battery gets some charge before cranking things.

Starting the V-10 and letting it run to charge things up for a bit should also have worked.
This subject came up a couple of years ago, and as I recall, the switch that connects the house and chassis batteries is a solenoid switch, so if the house batteries are too dead they wont actuate the switch. I think the switch is powered from the house batteries but Im not sure. Wed have to look at a schematic. It would make sense though since the most critical application is to start the vehicle engine using the house batteries when chassis battery is dead. For that reason I think solenoid is likely powered from house batteries instead of chassis battery.
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Old 10-18-2018, 03:11 AM   #14
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My husband said he has used the dash switch and batteries to the coach do not work. He says the batteries have dead cells. I guess I don't understand when the RV is sitting in the yard hooked up to electricity all summer when we aren't out using the camper that the batteries are dead in the coach. The engine battery is fine since we have been starting that periodically to make sure it starts. Batteries one year old being dead just does not make sense.
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Old 10-18-2018, 04:15 AM   #15
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Plugged in with the use/store switch in the off position will drain the coach batteries since the battery charger (converts 120 AC to 12 V DC) is off!
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Old 10-18-2018, 04:44 AM   #16
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I believe I read that when a wet battery gets low on water, if any of the plates in the battery are exposed to the air, that much of the plate becomes useless.
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Old 10-18-2018, 12:00 PM   #17
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Plugged in with the use/store switch in the off position will drain the coach batteries since the battery charger (converts 120 AC to 12 V DC) is off!
No, the converter is on and still supplies the DC loads but the battery is disconnected from the converter (and DC buss) so it does not charge.
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Old 10-18-2018, 02:23 PM   #18
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first, in order to overcome the 'low' House batteries to help crank the generator:

- press and HOLD down the 'AUX', or emergency switch, on the dash
- the press and HOLD the Generator START Switch, at the same time
- the AUX switch should be powered by EITHER battery bank, so as long as one has power, it should flow thru to the other, and vice versa...which is it's job - like a set of jumper cables, only much easier : )

...as for whether the House batteries should be 'dead' after only a year of use, and while mostly 'plugged in' to shore power, I would suggest that they are probably not, as your Charger may not be charging the batteries.

When plugged into shore power, there's really NO reason to turn anything OFF in the coach, as far as the 12v systems, or even the Inverter, if you have one. The shore power is plenty capable of handling all 120v power, and 12v power thru the Converter, as well as a constant 'trickle charge' to the House batteries, as needed.

Whenever you switch OFF something, you have to think about what that is affecting. Sometimes we think that we should 'shut down' everything when we are not using it, but most electrical systems don't really 'care', though you also risk shutting down your ability to keep the batteries charged.

Now, if you store your RV and don't have access to shore power or solar power, then Yes, it makes sense to not only shut down any power draws, by switching off the 12v systems, but also to cut off the House batteries from the RV itself. The 12v cut-off 'salesman's' switch may NOT do this, at least not completely. Some RVs may include a 'Main' cutoff switch for the house batteries, but most don't. Install your own, or simply remove the red and black main battery leads while in storage.

RVs are interesting beasts. While we think 'nothing' is drawing from the batteries when we have used the 'OFF' switch, some safety items are supplied power directly from the batteries, bypassing any switch - such as C02 and Smoke detectors, as well as possibly 12v TVs, or devices with internal circuit boards which require constant, though slight, 12v power.
The 'salesman's' switch was originally designed to really only serve as a 'main' switch for the lights throughout the coach, so that a salesman can easily cut ON or OFF all the lights while entering or exiting, when showing the RV. It may also cut off the power to many Inverters, such as the whole-house type, but probably not all, such as ones dedicated to only the residential fridge.

The only 'real' way to stop draws from the House batteries is to totally disconnect them, though that's more than most would like to have to do. : )
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Old 10-18-2018, 03:17 PM   #19
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The one that surprised me is the inverter being direct connected rather than after the switch. Makes sense given the currents involved but it's easy to leave it on. Even with no load they draw significant parisitic current.
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Old 10-18-2018, 03:19 PM   #20
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The one that surprised me is the inverter being direct connected rather than after the switch. Makes sense given the currents involved but it's easy to leave it on. Even with no load they draw significant parisitic current.
OP has a 2015 Vegas as such: no inverter.
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