Hot Water Heater on Electric

ThorRut · 10-12-2016, 02:42 AM

I have a hot water heater that works on both propane and elect. Propane works fine all the time. Problem: The elect only works when I plug into my 120V at home. When plugged into the campgrounds 30A, it never works. Any suggestions. Also the elect works when the genny is running.

pstandiford · 10-12-2016, 10:35 AM

Are you using any adapters when plugged into the 30 amp at campground? What about when plugged in at home? BTW, the 30 amp at campgrounds is also 120 volt.

ThorRut · 10-12-2016, 03:12 PM

Use no kind of adapter. Just the cord.

pstandiford · 10-12-2016, 03:46 PM

So when plugged in at home you have a 30 amp receptacle?

halfprice · 10-12-2016, 04:28 PM

Has this happened at several different campgrounds or only one. Doesn't make sense that it would work at home and with the gen but no where else.

When it doesn't work at the campground did all the other electrical things in the coach work.

Jerry

bevedfelker · 10-12-2016, 04:45 PM

How are you plugging into the 120V at home? Do you have a 15amp to 30 amp adapter that you plug into the extension cord from the house and then plug the 30 amp RV cable into the adapter on the end of the extension cord and then plug it into the shore power connection on the RV?

Or do you have a dedicated 30 amp plug at home just like in the RV parks?

Did you turn on the water heater electric switch when plugged in at home?

When plugged in at home will the TVs work? Will the A/C work? Does the microwave work? All those are 120VAC systems.

This makes absolutely no sense to me because if power is flowing from the park pedestal through the RV cable into the RV, the only thing changing at home is where the cable is plugged in. Do you have this problem at EVERY park you have plugged into? When plugged in to the park do you have A/C, microwave, and does every appliance you plug into the wall work?

Something is missing here.

**EA37TS** · 10-12-2016, 05:48 PM

The next time you are at a campground and it does not work in electric mode call Attwood Customer Support and have a multi-meter handy.

You will not get to the bottom of the problem if it is working at home and you are trying to troubleshoot.

It could be something as simple as your converter is charging the batteries at a voltage higher (>14 VDC) than the water heater will accept thereby causing the water heater to lockout until the voltage drops below 14 VDC.

Tom N3EQF · 10-12-2016, 07:39 PM

The electric element of the hot water heater runs off 120 VAC, not 12 VDC, BTW. I don't know if your RV has this, but on mine there is a box called a "Automatic Energy Select Switch", located near the main electrical panel. It's purpose is to automatically decide whether the 120 VAC source will run either the electric water heater element, or the microwave oven. It should detect which one is currently in use, and turn the "opposite" device off. It will normally allow the water heater to be powered, and then if the microwave is started up it will shut off electric to the water heater temporarily.

It's possible that auto switch is misbehaving, depending on how much voltage is available (generator versus campground power).

Just an idea.

John & Diane · 10-12-2016, 10:17 PM

Tom,

What year is your 27K? Is the Energy Control you have located where you can see it or is under your dinette seat? I don't recall seeing anything like that in our 2015 27K. A picture of it would be appreciated.

bevedfelker · 10-12-2016, 10:20 PM

It would be helpful if you told us how your ACE decided on AC or Propane for the water heater. For example on my 2015 Vegas there is a master control panel in the entry stairwell on the side of the kitchen cabinet. There are two switches for the water heater. One operates the heater on AC the other is for propane. The propane switch allows 12VDC to operate the water heater igniter. The AC switch turns on the eltheic coil in the water heater.

How do you select operation on your ACE.

**EA37TS** · 10-12-2016, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom N3EQF

The electric element of the hot water heater runs off 120 VAC, not 12 VDC, ...

Yes, after the switch supplies 12VDC to the circuit board which in turn supplies voltage to the relay so that it can close thereby completing the 120VAC circuit and supplying power to the water heater's heating element.

Up until the relay on the back of the unit closes everything is 12VDC. The only things on the water heater that are 120VAC are the relay and heating element.

If you would like to verify this pull your water heater switches and read the voltage. Both switches send 12VDC out to the water heater circuit board.

Tom N3EQF · 10-12-2016, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John & Diane

Tom,

What year is your 27K? Is the Energy Control you have located where you can see it or is under your dinette seat? I don't recall seeing anything like that in our 2015 27K. A picture of it would be appreciated.

Our 27K is a 2015 model, and the relay is under the dinette seat buried under all the wiring there. Here is a picture:

Tom N3EQF · 10-12-2016, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dstankov

Yes, after the switch supplies 12VDC to the circuit board which in turn supplies voltage to the relay so that it can close thereby completing the 120VAC circuit and supplying power to the water heater's heating element.

Up until the relay on the back of the unit closes everything is 12VDC. The only things on the water heater that are 120VAC are the relay and heating element.

If you would like to verify this pull your water heater switches and read the voltage. Both switches send 12VDC out to the water heater circuit board.

Good point, thanks for that. Of course the 12 VDC control from the panel switch and relay could be another source of the problem. Just seems weird that the difference (as described by OP) depends on the source of AC.

**EA37TS** · 10-13-2016, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom N3EQF

Good point, thanks for that. Of course the 12 VDC control from the panel switch and relay could be another source of the problem. Just seems weird that the difference (as described by OP) depends on the source of AC.

That is the reason I suggested the converter as a source of the problem. If the coach had been running down the road and using the 12 VDC system, when the coach is plugged into a campground and the converter goes into bulk mode it could be supplying over 14VDC thereby triggering the safety feature on the water heater. This would occur until the batteries are charged and voltage drops below 14VDC.

One way to rule this out is to place a meter on the battery(ies) immediately after plugging in at a campground and measuring the voltage.

Another way is to wait an hour or two after hooking into shore power to turn on the water heater and see if will work.

Now folks may ask why only campground? Could be timing. When camping one of the first things I do is hit the switch for the hot water heater. When I get home I don't always turn the water heater on as soon as I connect shore power.

I know it's a WAG, but without having hands and meter on the coach everything is a WAG.

ThorRut · 10-13-2016, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dstankov

The next time you are at a campground and it does not work in electric mode call Attwood Customer Support and have a multi-meter handy.

You will not get to the bottom of the problem if it is working at home and you are trying to troubleshoot.

It could be something as simple as your converter is charging the batteries at a voltage higher (>14 VDC) than the water heater will accept thereby causing the water heater to lockout until the voltage drops below 14 VDC.

Dstankov, I really think you are pointing me in the right direction. Sometime, on a rare occasion, it gets hot over in the nite. I'll get the voltage meter and check it plugged in at home, then when at campground. Will let you know what I find. Thanks again.

Forest Grump · 10-13-2016, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dstankov

Yes, after the switch supplies 12VDC to the circuit board which in turn supplies voltage to the relay so that it can close thereby completing the 120VAC circuit and supplying power to the water heater's heating element.

Up until the relay on the back of the unit closes everything is 12VDC. The only things on the water heater that are 120VAC are the relay and heating element.

If you would like to verify this pull your water heater switches and read the voltage. Both switches send 12VDC out to the water heater circuit board.

i think the issue is in the newfangled, now that word shows my age, power control center. Mine did a similar thing. Off at the beach on shore power after the microwave went on, then never went back on. So I just use propane now. The issue may not be be the 120v source but the circumstance of time between using the device and its not allowing or allowing a reset. The issue may not really be the 120v source. If it does what you say 9 times in a row then chances are, 95% confidence level that the 120v source is the issue. That's a lot of camping.

Try bypassing the newfangle and see if that does it. Sooner or later I am going to figure out the device so I can disconnect and remove it. I put a subpanel and a second transfer switch in the same physical area for my solar. The newfangle operates downstream from the 120v panel. I've had the newfangle apart, just to see what it was and decided to leave it a year ago and I'm 74 ish so someone else needs to chime in on a circuit diagram.

ThorRut · 11-30-2021, 03:43 PM

After w/h finally died, i took a deeper dive into the problem. Solution was thor wired the fridge into the aess, instead of the microwave. Made the switch, and all is well.

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