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View Poll Results: Answer my question in the post using this poll...
Choice #1 1 2.94%
Choice #2 17 50.00%
Choice #3 4 11.76%
Choice #4 15 44.12%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-09-2018, 07:00 PM   #1
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Just when I felt bad about being too harsh in my critique of Thor...

...We have this happen the very first time we tried to actually eat at our dinette table...





Really Thor? Really? 16 screws and not a single one into the framing. Might as well be mounted to cardboard. It looks like the guy just kept ramming screws into it hoping to find something solid, and never did. Oh well, hurry up and send it down the line quick!

I felt a little bad about making a wrong assumption in another thread, and jumping on Thor's assembly practices when in that ONE situation it wasn't warranted.

But I don't feel bad anymore. The assembly quality IS abhorrent. My wife said this morning "This is the most poorly built product I have ever encountered in my entire life. And that includes products from China." I totally agree. I would have been extremely unhappy if our entire spaghetti dinner slid onto my brand new $1200 carpeting. As it was, we had to carefully take everything off the table and put it down for the rest of the trip. My wife is now scared about the TV and cabinets and their mountings. I'll be taking those off (the TV's at least) to check to see if they're not actually going to fall on us either.

Speaking of the TV's, the TV over the dinette in the 27.7 isn't exactly user friendly. My wife and I hit our heads on the corners of it no less than 4 times! It sticks out way too far, there's no way 4 people could eat at that dinette without the corner of the TV being in two of the people's faces. It also covers way too much of the windows. Ideally I'm thinking I'd rather have one big picture window there and no TV. We'll see, I'm still tossing around what to do there. We know one thing, that TV can't stay there in that position.

BTW for those of you that are posting that you've had very few problems with your RV's, I think this is something that's getting way worse recently. Ours was built in December of last year. They've really ramped up production a little before and since then. Clearly, our coach was assembled WAY TOO QUICKLY.

A Thor representative reached out to me because of that other thread and wanted me to share my pictures of stuff like this with him. I'm still not sure I want to bother. Thor knows what quality level their assembly is at, they don't need me to tell them. I truly believe this is their business model right now. I think the only way it's going to change is either people stop buying them (not likely), they get hit with a hefty class action suit (also not likely) or somebody does a documentary on their shoddy and dangerous workmanship that gets plenty of airtime (what I think would be the best approach).

I'll throw a question in here for you guys... (Answer using the poll above.)

What exactly should I do with the hundreds of photos I have documenting poor assembly just like the ones of the table mounting above?

Choice #1- Should I just move on and not worry about Thor and how they're building these RV's for the next people that buy them?

Choice #2- Should I spend a bunch of time providing Thor with photos and explanations of what I found on our coach in the assumption that they'd actually do something about it?

Choice #3- Do I ask them for monetary compensation for the 4 months worth of work I've had to do to our coach to make sure it wasn't going to burst into flames, kill us or at the very least leave us stranded somewhere?

Choice #4- Or do I contact somebody at Netflix or elsewhere and work with them to make a documentary on the subject, including the economy of Elkhart Indiana specifically?
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Old 06-09-2018, 07:09 PM   #2
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WOW!!!!!!!

That is inexcusable... Sadly, I vote Option 4.

That guarantees we will stay with current Vegas unit. Going bigger runs too much risk of problems and or additional work for me.

Sorry too see you have to deal with this. You should be able to hop into your investment and have a good time.
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Old 06-09-2018, 07:20 PM   #3
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"too"
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Old 06-09-2018, 07:24 PM   #4
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"too"
Hahaha. Thanks. I was like "what?" Then I saw it.
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Old 06-09-2018, 07:30 PM   #5
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I think every little bit helps... maybe not now, but maybe later.

I say this as I had a $400K Entegra coach come into our campground the other day with a sticker in the window that said "This Entegra Coach Is A Lemon!" I was talking to another Entegra owner nearby and he has had issues with a circuit board that holds all of the chassis fuses and relays... it can happen to anyone.
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Old 06-09-2018, 07:45 PM   #6
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I'm wondering if its that 27.7 model... My reasoning is, however specious, is that it is a bit different from the other Axis/Vegas units (2 slides, a bit longer, etc.), and that it is still new enough that they are "learning" how to build it.

Likewise I would expect similar problems with the new 25.6 model.
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:45 PM   #7
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I'd go for #2 even though it's lot of work. I've seen the table problem with other RV's from Star Craft to the Outback we use a spare bedroom.


It isn't just Thor.
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Old 06-10-2018, 02:02 PM   #8
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Two... Good luck!
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Old 06-10-2018, 02:33 PM   #9
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quality control issues

Ya know...when we first purchased our 2016 Axis 24.1...we had an electrical issue which turned out to be...theft of a component by an unscrupulous dealer...rather than a Thor issue !!! Problem solved...however, in the interim, some of the forum members said...the quality of the build depends on what day of the week it is built … not to make light of the issues folks are having..but, the entire industry has issues...too bad they cannot hire RV owners to build units .. they would be done RIGHT !!

Those of us who have 'older' Axis/Vegas, keeping in mind the first build/release was 2014 units, are fortunate.

We love our Axis !
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Old 06-10-2018, 02:57 PM   #10
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Those look like self tapping sheet metal screws not wood screws...
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Old 06-10-2018, 04:00 PM   #11
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Maybe there is an agency that would investigate the safety/quality issues. Something like this: https://www.rvia.org/
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Old 06-10-2018, 04:58 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by JamieGeek View Post
I'm wondering if its that 27.7 model... My reasoning is, however specious, is that it is a bit different from the other Axis/Vegas units (2 slides, a bit longer, etc.), and that it is still new enough that they are "learning" how to build it.

Likewise I would expect similar problems with the new 25.6 model.
I doubt itís a model or day-of-week problem. Iíve seen many used RVs at PPL with similar damage.

The biggest problem is that this table design isnít very strong, and when people (particularly older individuals) try to get up from a table, they push down on end of table to help themselveslves stand up.

On a trip I made with my parents, I had to keep asking them not to lean on table so much to get up, and that table on rented RV was a lot stronger because it had 2 legs down to floor (same as my previous C). Even that has limitations because table swings towards dinette seats, placing a very high moment at base where itís screwed to floor. Iíve seen those pulled out also on used RVs.


The wall bracket on most of these table bases are predrilled with many holes, and since table has to line up perfectly with dinette, the odds that holes line up perfectly with aluminum framing is very low. For that reason I think they expect the many fasteners to be sufficient.

Even if they hit aluminum studs, they are almost paper thin so I doubt 2 studs would be much stronger. Maybe if they installed a horizontal crossmember in wall, but thatís tough to get right also.

I appreciate that these cantilevered tables are nice because they donít have center floor supports to interfere with legs, but don't like lack of sturdiness. Like with slides, I prefer KISS approach.
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Old 06-10-2018, 05:36 PM   #13
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Since they contacted you - someone there is interested enough to ask. PITA I know but #2
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Old 06-10-2018, 05:49 PM   #14
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#2 in my opinion is the ONLY option that MIGHT get you some attention from someone somewhere that could help with your issues. The other options might give you a small amount of satisfaction, but not very likely to help change the rv industry in any way. Those folks assembling them don't see or hear of any of yours or my complaints & I would guess even if they did it wouldn't make a single bit of difference, they have a quota to meet & once met, go home.
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Old 06-10-2018, 07:09 PM   #15
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#2 in my opinion is the ONLY option that MIGHT get you some attention from someone somewhere that could help with your issues. The other options might give you a small amount of satisfaction, but not very likely to help change the rv industry in any way. Those folks assembling them don't see or hear of any of yours or my complaints & I would guess even if they did it wouldn't make a single bit of difference, they have a quota to meet & once met, go home.
Exactly! The people building these RV's are paid on productivity. Exactly the same as flat rate in the auto repair world. It's a HORRIBLE way to get quality work done. It's actually almost impossible. (I purposely picked dealerships in my career that paid me hourly. I took as much time as I needed to properly fix vehicles.) 99% of auto repair businesses and dealerships are on flat rate pay systems. It literally COSTS the tech money to spend more time working on your vehicle.

The exact same is true for these guys building these RV's. The longer they take putting in things like dinette tables, the less money in their paychecks. That's a hard situation for any honest or considerate person to be in, much less workers that have an average stay at a company like Thor of a few months. Or better yet, work program people from the nearby jails or prison. Really? You're going to wave LOTS more cash in front of a person like that if they work really fast and literally throw the parts together? What kind of quality do they expect?

Which is why I believe it's a business model. They know exactly what they're doing. Any idiot businessman would know what results would come from waving lots of cash in front of someone to do something that's not quite right. Some of these assembly workers are making $100k a year throwing these things together. That's a fortune for a place like Indiana. Especially for basically unskilled labor.

The sad part is that these are human beings behind this crappy workmanship. How do these people sleep at night knowing what kind of garbage quality they're providing to us hard working buyers. If my boss had told me he'd pay me a pile of money to work faster and to not give a damn if the parts fall off immediately after the sale, I would have told him to *@#*&^%, and then rolled my toolbox out to my truck.

That's what's so sad to me about all of this. This is America. This is the kind of work we do now. I live near the Golden Gate Bridge. It was made in 4 years, ahead of schedule and under budget. And it's still working fine after like 80 years. Could we build anything like that again? It would take 20 years worth of litigation, surveys, impact studies, workforce battles, etc, etc. It would take 4 times as long to build as originally planned, and would cost 10 times as much as originally budgeted. Then in about 4 years it would fall into the Bay because they used the wrong rivets! Seriously.
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Old 06-10-2018, 07:26 PM   #16
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I would say #2 as someone thatís had a horrible problem getting a water leak fix which originally started as a bad quality issue by Thor but then compounded by the complete inepetness of CW. That last round I was working with Thor and they said we are tired of paying to fix the problem basically saying that the CW sucks. I think as a society we have gotten to throw away society where if something breaks or something new and cooler comes out we say out with the old and in with the new so our expectations are we are just get something new so who cares about quality.

I donít think that any of us buy or coaches expecting to get something new in a couple of years but the fact of the matter it happens a lot and there is so much demand until that changes I donít think it will change.

Itís jusy like the buy American, it sounds great and we all say we will but if the quality is lower no one will pay more.
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Old 06-10-2018, 10:49 PM   #17
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#2 seems the best way to go..... for now.
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Old 06-11-2018, 12:12 AM   #18
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#2 and #4 simultaneously. I think it would be a pretty good documentary. "Nightmare Road: Gambling Your Future for a Dream."
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Old 06-11-2018, 12:30 AM   #19
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Hello Ralph Nader?!

Yikes!
Are they placating you like oh yeah send me the photos (file 13)?
People ask you, How are you today?
Like they care

I bought my Computer, coffee pot, rv,car etc to USE not REBUILD MYSELF

quick question , knowledgeable Forum brains,
Are these workers UAW workers?

As my momma used to say so what if old people use them?
Most importantly though,
DOES THE FACT THAT OTHER BRANDS HAVE PROBLEMS MAKE A DIFFERENCE?
THE MOST IMPORTANT AS MY MOMMA SAID TWO WRONGS DONT MAKE A RIGHT!
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Old 06-11-2018, 12:35 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
Yikes!
Are they placating you like oh yeah send me the photos (file 13)?
People ask you, How are you today?
Like they care

I bought my Computer, coffee pot, rv,car etc to USE not REBUILD MYSELF

quick question , knowledgeable Forum brains,
Are these workers UAW workers?
Speak for yourself: Especially computer... I have a non-zero number of Raspberry PI's and other assorted computer equipment that I've modified, etc.
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