Need help with self installed Power Inverter issue

[Long & Winding road]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Perhaps this outlet is on that same line, but is before your inverter?

Where did you tap into this circuit? Right behind the converter? Did you miss a line off the converter?

(Just trying to cover a possibility that hasn't been mentioned.)

I tapped into the line coming out of the fuse box so the wall plug is NOT before the Inverter. Good question. According to insturctions this is the way to hook it up so the converter works like it did before (auto switch to what it needs). I need to check under the tolet area to see what they did with the wires and I will do a continuity test this weekend. Keep the ideas coming. I have a feeling until I follow this wire to the dinning area I wont have any answers.

[gmtech16450yz]

Back up and start over.

If all of the things you're saying are "100% right" or "NOT" a problem, the outlet would work properly. If that outlet is "100%" on the same circuit as you put the inverter on and the inverter is "100%" wired correctly, then it would work.

99% of the time (lol. I rarely believe in 100% of anything. Being 100% sure is kind of like saying never.) when guys get stumped like this it's because they've assumed something and moved past that point in the diagnosis. You're missing something. Yeah, tracing where that wire actually goes is a vital step, but your idea that a circuit might be "shorting out" on one source but not another is highly unlikely and hints at your not understanding some basic principles. If it "shorted out", it would trip a breaker. It would have to be "open" at times or on a certain voltage source and not another, which like I said would be reaching.

REALLY not trying to be a smart@ss or harsh, just trying to help. If you just back up on this one point, you should be able to figure it out.. It CAN'T be on the same circuit as your inverter if it doesn't work when it's on. Or at least it can't be wired correctly to that circuit if it is.

What exact model did you install?
Where exactly did you wire it in?
Where is the AC input to the inverter wired?
How many wires are hooked to the breakers?
Have you pulled all the breakers and checked each circuit totally separately?

Pictures might actually help. Take some shots or draw out a diagram of how and where you wired in the inverter.

Again, don't take this the wrong way. I know I can be harsh. haha. You've already helped a lot of people on this forum, I know you're a smart guy. You can figure this out yourself, you just need to back up and not assume anything.

[MarylandMatt]

Originally Posted by Long & Winding road

I tapped into the line coming out of the fuse box so the wall plug is NOT before the Inverter. Good question. According to insturctions this is the way to hook it up so the converter works like it did before (auto switch to what it needs). I need to check under the tolet area to see what they did with the wires and I will do a continuity test this weekend. Keep the ideas coming. I have a feeling until I follow this wire to the dinning area I wont have any answers.

Have you taken a look behind the panel at where the wire connects to the circuit breaker? Are there two lines coming off the circuit breaker? Just a thought that they might have run two lines both connected to the circuit breaker in the fuse box. I know I have seen that style wiring in houses, I am not sure if it is correct or not but that rarely stops people from doing silly things.

When you connected to the inverter, did you:
1) Cut the existing line and just put the inverter in the middle
2) run a new line from the circuit box to the inverter input, then connected the old line to the inverter output?
3) Something else?

This is one of the weirdest things that I have heard of, I hope that you are able to find the issue.

For me, I went from the transfer switch to my inverter, then to the circuit panel to get everything on the panel (I did re-wire the AC to a new circuit breaker). I just wanted to make sure to have all the power in the coach possible while going down the road. We have even run the Microwave off it, but we got the bigger one from you.

[ComputerChips]

Originally Posted by MarylandMatt

Have you taken a look behind the panel at where the wire connects to the circuit breaker? Are there two lines coming off the circuit breaker? Just a thought that they might have run two lines both connected to the circuit breaker in the fuse box. I know I have seen that style wiring in houses, I am not sure if it is correct or not but that rarely stops people from doing silly things.

When you connected to the inverter, did you:
1) Cut the existing line and just put the inverter in the middle
2) run a new line from the circuit box to the inverter input, then connected the old line to the inverter output?
3) Something else?

This is one of the weirdest things that I have heard of, I hope that you are able to find the issue.

For me, I went from the transfer switch to my inverter, then to the circuit panel to get everything on the panel (I did re-wire the AC to a new circuit breaker). I just wanted to make sure to have all the power in the coach possible while going down the road. We have even run the Microwave off it, but we got the bigger one from you.

Well you have quite an audience. Please let us know what you find. 1.You seemed to confirm that ALL recepts you want, are on the same breaker in the panel. 2. There is only one wire landed on the (recept breaker) and that is the wire feeding the inverter. 3. The wire returning from the inverter is spliced to the one wire that travels out to the recepts. 4. The first few recepts work on inverted power but the feed is interrupted before reaching the dinnette recept and some wire leaving that recept is also dead and we don't know where that wire is going. Yet all recepts work on shore or genny. Amazing.

Somone else mentioned it but let me go over it. Occasionally there may be 2 wires connected to the same breaker. (They had 2 home runs and only 1 place to hook up). That's fine. But for the inverter to support both, you would need to connect both of those home runs to the wire from the inverter so that BOTH circuits are powered by the inverter when it is supplying the power. Otherwise one circuit is powered and the other one isn't....until shore power comes back on.

[Long & Winding road]

Yep, your right. I should not have said 100%. I thought about that "After" I hit enter. LOL. Its been so frustrating for me to try and figure this out because it just dont make any since. Part of me wants to skip what I have done already and move to on but sometimes that’s the wrong thing to do.

I installed the Aims Power inverter, 1200 watt with built in transfer switch (PWRIX120012S). Its designed for one romex 120V wire in and one remex 120 v wire out. I hooked up to the one wire that goes OUT from the NON GFI breaker on the OEM fuse panel under the bed. This is the location everyone recommends to splice into and I only want to power a few things – not the entire RV. And I want my transfer swith to work like it should (and it does).

Then cut that OEM romex 120 v wire comming out of OEM fuse panel in half, installed to the inbound and the other half to the outbound Aims inverter (Yes im sure I got the in and out correct - lol).

I am 100% sure (thats how cofindant I am) on which line I grabbed and have tested it with the OME circuit breakers, lights and fans before and after to see what it controlled etc. I have checked and quadruple checked everything in and out of the new inverter and the entire fuse panel to make sure everything was tight from factory and not loose wires or strange splices.

For the 12 v side of the inverter I tapped into the 12 volt side of the OEM fuse panel (Factory fuse panel has a spots to do this for both 12 v positive and 12 v negative under the bed) and then installed a 40 amp circuit breaker on the 12 volt + wire before it goes to my inverter. (40 amp is what aims recommended for 1200 watt inverter). It has been tested and works fine.

For wiring I used 4 gauge 12 volt high quality power wire from Windy Nations and then did a 10 gauge “Chassy ground” to the body of the inverter (Aims recommended no less than 12 G) and it goes though the RV floor and directly to the Ford frame below the bed.

I feed the “phone wire” for the Inverter remote up to the front of the RV next to the step were the light switches are. Everything worked exactly like I expected - Both TV’s work (One over the steps and on in the bedroom), both outlets work next to the TV’s for a DVD player or whatever you want to power, the Frig is also on this line but I use the propane unless im on shore or genny power.

The inverter switch goes to standby mode (Yellow light on remote) when you turn on the Genny or plug into the shore then back to inverter power (Green light on remote) when no other power source. It turns on and off fine and no errors showing. I been using it for 4 weekends or so without any issues.

If I didn’t need this Dinette outlet to charge my laptop I would have NEVER notice it was not working. I been scratching my head for 4 weeks and have done 50+ searches on line and asked a few HD employees if they had any thoughts

At first I thought I did something wrong so I went over everything slowly several times on several different days. So unless Thor has some crazy wiring hiding someplace I cant see Im at a loss to explain it.

I did notice that the power that goes to the receptacle is a soft flexible appliance type cord so it can move in an out with the slide then it goes to the romex via some strange plastic connector then to the receptacle in slide then out (which is strange since I cannot find anything else that it goes to….everything I see is 12 volt and I found that 12v source already).

My next two steps will be to trace this wire under the bathroom and into the slide to see what else is connected to it (or just replace it - might be quicker).

If that dont work just replace the receptacle in question with a new one.

Any other thoughts? Thanks for all your input....we will figure this out eventally.

[JamieGeek]

Honestly: I don't think replacing the outlet will fix the issue, especially if you've measured no volts elsewhere (don't remember if you've done any volt metering??). Considering the outlet works on shore and genny..then its good.

Another thought, if you haven't done this already: With all 120V stuff off (inverter off, unplugged, generator off) have you tried a continuity tester between that outlet and the output of the inverter?

[Long & Winding road]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Honestly: I don't think replacing the outlet will fix the issue, especially if you've measured no volts elsewhere (don't remember if you've done any volt metering??). Considering the outlet works on shore and genny..then its good.

Another thought, if you haven't done this already: With all 120V stuff off (inverter off, unplugged, generator off) have you tried a continuity tester between that outlet and the output of the inverter?

Good Idea, I will check this weekend. My list is growing on things to check and double check. I was hoping that someone had come across a simular problem before and it would be an easy fix. Wishful thinking or just optimistic ?

[sanjaun2]

I am following this thread because I really want to know what your problem was once you fixit I just bought the same inverter last week. I am waiting on my fuses to show up from Amazon. my unit came with no instructions or wiring diagrams! Are you sure 40 amps is sufficient for the DC side? 40x12=480 watts. 100 amps for the rated 1200 watts. 200 amps for gets you to the surge rating of 2400 watts. Good luck finding your gremlin!

[ComputerChips]

So you cut the romex in two that was leaving the desired circuit breaker. Splicing the breaker panel section of the romex to the inverter's INPUT and reconnecting the load section of the romex to the OUTPUT of the inverter. If the dinette recept had a separate home run to the same breaker (two wires connected to the same 1 breaker) that would explain your scenario. That dinette homerun is upstream from where you intercepted the feed under the bed.
In some cases they will loop one wire around the breaker screw and then use a wire nut to attach the second home run to the tail end of the first wire that they connected. They do it that way because it is difficult to wrap 2 wires around the screw head on the breaker. Some breakers just have a screw terminal whereas other breakers have an opening and a set screw that clamps down on the conductor and possibly room for more than just one conductor in the hole. You'll have to open the breaker panel and look very closely for that extra wire connected somehow to the breaker. You would need to remove it and extend it to the downstream splice point, so it will be fed by the inverter's power.

[Long & Winding road]

Originally Posted by ComputerChips

So you cut the romex in two that was leaving the desired circuit breaker. Splicing the breaker panel section of the romex to the inverter's INPUT and reconnecting the load section of the romex to the OUTPUT of the inverter. If the dinette recept had a separate home run to the same breaker (two wires connected to the same 1 breaker) that would explain your scenario. That dinette homerun is upstream from where you intercepted the feed under the bed.
In some cases they will loop one wire around the breaker screw and then use a wire nut to attach the second home run to the tail end of the first wire that they connected. They do it that way because it is difficult to wrap 2 wires around the screw head on the breaker. Some breakers just have a screw terminal whereas other breakers have an opening and a set screw that clamps down on the conductor and possibly room for more than just one conductor in the hole. You'll have to open the breaker panel and look very closely for that extra wire connected somehow to the breaker. You would need to remove it and extend it to the downstream splice point, so it will be fed by the inverter's power.

You might be on to something! I will have to check on that this weekend.

I didnt notice but the one wire comming out but perhaps they wired two?? I just assumed one breaker = one wire. I didnt think they could do that.... is it safe?

In case I didnt mention it I put the inverter right next to the Fuse panel so they are like 3 feet away. Someone touch on me cutting in the middle of this line and this outlet was up stream of the inverter therfore no power when on inverter only. Yours would explain a lot and both of you would be correct.

Perhaps they had a 2nd wire on the same breaker and I only saw the one.

The wires under this fuse panel is a mess, looks like a bundle of snakes. If I had more time I would pull one off at a time and unravel them then staple to the wood supports one by one in order. Thanks.... I excited about this now!

[Long & Winding road]

Originally Posted by sanjaun2

I am following this thread because I really want to know what your problem was once you fixit I just bought the same inverter last week. I am waiting on my fuses to show up from Amazon. my unit came with no instructions or wiring diagrams! Are you sure 40 amps is sufficient for the DC side? 40x12=480 watts. 100 amps for the rated 1200 watts. 200 amps for gets you to the surge rating of 2400 watts. Good luck finding your gremlin!

Yes the Aims instructions are very limited. I actually researced some other 1000 - 1500 watt inverters and read thier owners manuals and fuse sizes / wire size etc.

Your right. I just when to my Amazon past orders orders and I purchased a "150 amp" breaker. Sorry about that. Im designing a solar system for my RV now and I have "40 amp breaker" on my brain for the "40 amp" MPPT controller im thinking of purchasing. My bad.

I think 150 is what Zantrex recomended for thier 1000 watt inverter? And since my Inverter is like 15 foot from the battery I figured It most likely will NOT push more than 1000 watts anyway. So I went with a lower amps breaker to be safe. If it was closer I think I would have went with 175 or 200 amp. But no more money than they cost I can always replace with a larger one if it trips more than once ore twice in a year on me. So far its been fine.

I also use 2 trial hikers youtube videos to wire my inverter. He has the same setup as me (except diff floor plan). Awesome video.

Good catch.... you need to keep me on my toes. LOL.

[Shawn62]

ComputerChips,
Good call on the home run. I ran into that once. Some knuckle head put one wire in the breaker then wire nutted two two wires to it way down in the bottom of the breaker panel out of sight. He had one circuit inside the house. The other circuit ran underground to a storage shed. He sold the shed, cut the wire underground. The breaker would trip when it rained and shorted. I would lose power in house. I thought I had a bad breaker and replaced it. Breaker tripped again. I found home run when I started tracing/inspecting wire.

Could be a plausible explanation for Long and Winding Road

[Thehobe1]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Perhaps this outlet is on that same line, but is before your inverter?

Where did you tap into this circuit? Right behind the converter? Did you miss a line off the converter?

(Just trying to cover a possibility that hasn't been mentioned.)

I agree with the Geek! The only way this could happen is if the receptacle is not tied to the output of the inverter but to the output of the circuit breaker before the inverter's transfer switch. In this way, when the transfer switch is off (ac in tied to all receptacles) and when the transfer switch is on (inverter is on) the inverters output only powers the AC to the AC lines connected to the inverter's output and not the ac lines that are tied to the AC circuit breaker's output. Check if there were two hot wires tied to the output of the circuit breaker.

[ComputerChips]

Safety isn't compromised by having 2 circuits landed on one breaker. The breaker trips when the amperage exceeds what either cable can carry. If I remember correctly on mine they landed 2 circuits on one breaker. One romex is marked left recepts and the other is marked right recepts. If the breaker boxes were bigger every wire could have it's own breaker but these breaker boxes are very small so they have to be creative. Looking forward to your results.

[Long & Winding road]

Originally Posted by Thehobe1

I agree with the Geek! The only way this could happen is if the receptacle is not tied to the output of the inverter but to the output of the circuit breaker before the inverter's transfer switch. In this way, when the transfer switch is off (ac in tied to all receptacles) and when the transfer switch is on (inverter is on) the inverters output only powers the AC to the AC lines connected to the inverter's output and not the ac lines that are tied to the AC circuit breaker's output. Check if there were two hot wires tied to the output of the circuit breaker.

Yes, that would happen but when I shore power and I flip this one breaker all outlets ..... including the one in question..... go out ..... and the shore power is still on the entire time. I think is more likely I have TWO lines tied to the same OEM breaker. I just assumed it could only have one but thinking about it now.... there is a ton of wiring in this compartment.....all I have is like 5 or 6 AC breakers (Main, AC, Micro, GIF, NonGFI, and one or two others). But its so full of wires I bet some have TWO wires on them! I cant wait to check it out this SAT. I will give you all updates once I see what is going on. Im so excited .... I wish I didnt have to work to make a living anymore so I could tinker with the RV right now. LOL

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Long & Winding road

Yes, that would happen but when I shore power and I flip this one breaker all outlets ..... including the one in question..... go out ..... and the shore power is still on the entire time. I think is more likely I have TWO lines tied to the same OEM breaker. I just assumed it could only have one but thinking about it now.... there is a ton of wiring in this compartment.....all I have is like 5 or 6 AC breakers (Main, AC, Micro, GIF, NonGFI, and one or two others). But its so full of wires I bet some have TWO wires on them! I cant wait to check it out this SAT. I will give you all updates once I see what is going on. Im so excited .... I wish I didnt have to work to make a living anymore so I could tinker with the RV right now. LOL

Well that was what I was talking about: two lines out the back of the converter for a given circuit and you just missed one (same thing ComputerChips suggested in a more eloquent way).

[Long & Winding road]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Well that was what I was talking about: two lines out the back of the converter for a given circuit and you just missed one (same thing ComputerChips suggested in a more eloquent way).

Oh sorry, I didnt think you could have two lines out of the "converter" to teh breaker or anything else and I hooked up to the back of the fuse panel so I guess I didnt understand what you were saying. This is my first RV but im learning something new every week. Im kinda new to AC electrical work too. For years all I have done was add an outlet here and route power for wall mount TV's there, installed dishwashers or fixtures/ceiling fans. Most of my experience has been with 12 volt stuff back in the 80's and 90's with car audio equipment or modifying cars/ jeeps in other ways (motor head here). I apprciate all the help. Cant wait to check the RV out on SAT then I will give you all an update on what I find. This is the most plausible explanation for my problem.

[Long & Winding road]

Well I could not wait until Saturday afternoon so I went to my storage unit last night after work.

You guys were correct – TWO wires going to the same breaker on the fuse panel!

That never occurred to me since I just “Assumed” it could only be one wire like I have seen in the household fuse panels. And you know what happens when you Ass-u-me don’t you? LOL.

The extra wire is the flexible black “Appliance cord” that I saw under the seat on the booth dinette. Which makes sense since it on a slide out.

The way I tested it was I plugged into shore power first then inserted my Fluke voltage tester (It’s the type you just push in an outlet and give you a red light and a steady tone) then I went to the correct breaker and turned it off ….. no tone, turned it back on……Tone! So then I took the Fluke and touched ALL of the power wires coming out of the back of the fuse panel (it can sense voltage in a wires just by touching them) and all of them had a tone, then I turned off the breaker in question….NO TONE on either wire!

Problem solved!! You guys are awesome!!

So I have 4 solutions that I thought of…..You can let me know if you can think of any more.

I can either:

A – remove this black wire from the fuse panel and add a junction box on the “out bound” side of the inverter.

B – Add a junction box to the outbound side of inverter and feed a NEW romex wire under the bathroom and into the bathroom wall/Dinning room wall and install a NEW receptacle that does NOT slide out with slide. This will be much easier to reach than where they put this Dinette outlet under the table and next to the outside wall. Plus it already has a GFI Outlet so I will have two outlets very close together so it might now “look” good.

C – Use the receptacle above the sink and plug in a high quality 15 foot extension cord with surge protection on it, feed behind the TV either mount it permanently or just roll it up behind the TV and pull out when I want to chare my laptop on Inverter power. The drawback it if Im sitting at the dinette working (yes I still have to work ) with the lap top plugged in this cord will be in the way for me or my wide walking though the RV or possibly entering the RV since TV is over the door.

D – Add another outlet under the booth dinette but on the outside where its easy to reach but I will need a flexible power cord (due to slide) and looks much harder to feed from the bathroom area.

Any other ideas?

Thanks again for your help.

Here is a few pic of the project.

[Long & Winding road]

Picture of the jumbled up wires under the bed and my new 150 amp breaker.

[JamieGeek]

I vote A: just move it to the inverter output. Then you don't have to install another outlet, etc.