Need help with self installed Power Inverter issue

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Long & Winding road

Well I could not wait until Saturday afternoon so I went to my storage unit last night after work.

You guys were correct – TWO wires going to the same breaker on the fuse panel!

That never occurred to me since I just “Assumed” it could only be one wire like I have seen in the household fuse panels. And you know what happens when you Ass-u-me don’t you? LOL.

The extra wire is the flexible black “Appliance cord” that I saw under the seat on the booth dinette. Which makes sense since it on a slide out.

The way I tested it was I plugged into shore power first then inserted my Fluke voltage tester (It’s the type you just push in an outlet and give you a red light and a steady tone) then I went to the correct breaker and turned it off ….. no tone, turned it back on……Tone! So then I took the Fluke and touched ALL of the power wires coming out of the back of the fuse panel (it can sense voltage in a wires just by touching them) and all of them had a tone, then I turned off the breaker in question….NO TONE on either wire!

Problem solved!! You guys are awesome!!

So I have 4 solutions that I thought of…..You can let me know if you can think of any more.

I can either:

A – remove this black wire from the fuse panel and add a junction box on the “out bound” side of the inverter.

B – Add a junction box to the outbound side of inverter and feed a NEW romex wire under the bathroom and into the bathroom wall/Dinning room wall and install a NEW receptacle that does NOT slide out with slide. This will be much easier to reach than where they put this Dinette outlet under the table and next to the outside wall. Plus it already has a GFI Outlet so I will have two outlets very close together so it might now “look” good.

C – Use the receptacle above the sink and plug in a high quality 15 foot extension cord with surge protection on it, feed behind the TV either mount it permanently or just roll it up behind the TV and pull out when I want to chare my laptop on Inverter power. The drawback it if Im sitting at the dinette working (yes I still have to work ) with the lap top plugged in this cord will be in the way for me or my wide walking though the RV or possibly entering the RV since TV is over the door.

D – Add another outlet under the booth dinette but on the outside where its easy to reach but I will need a flexible power cord (due to slide) and looks much harder to feed from the bathroom area.

Any other ideas?

Thanks again for your help.

Here is a few pic of the project.

Just pull the extra wire from the breaker and wire-nut it into the output of the inverter! Oh, wait...... this isn't a Thor OEM installation.

[Long & Winding road]

Originally Posted by Tfryman

Just pull the extra wire from the breaker and wire-nut it into the output of the inverter! Oh, wait...... this isn't a Thor OEM installation.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Plus no room to do a "Thor quickie"on this inverter (which has a small compartment to push wirenuts into and secure wire).

I think I will install a junction box and use this flexable wire but the location of this outlet kinda sucks. Very hard to reach and see what your plugging into. Might relocate it to the outside of the booth where you can reach and see it (and just have TWO outlets - one on the inside and one on the outside).

[Long & Winding road]

Originally Posted by sanjaun2

I am following this thread because I really want to know what your problem was once you fixit I just bought the same inverter last week. I am waiting on my fuses to show up from Amazon. my unit came with no instructions or wiring diagrams! Are you sure 40 amps is sufficient for the DC side? 40x12=480 watts. 100 amps for the rated 1200 watts. 200 amps for gets you to the surge rating of 2400 watts. Good luck finding your gremlin!

Do you have an outlet on a Slide that you want to power? I have a feeling this is how they do it for all slides but I may be wrong. Have you figured out which breaker you will be powering yet? Once we figured out what my problem was It can be corrected very easy with 2 or 3 different ways to fit my needs.

Let me know if you have any question on this Aims inverter. So far I love it but have only used it a few times to watch TV and charge a few phones with. But since its very hot my Genny stays on during the day to keep the AC on.

[The_Breeze]

Originally Posted by sanjaun2
I am following this thread because I really want to know what your problem was once you fixit I just bought the same inverter last week. I am waiting on my fuses to show up from Amazon. my unit came with no instructions or wiring diagrams! Are you sure 40 amps is sufficient for the DC side? 40x12=480 watts. 100 amps for the rated 1200 watts. 200 amps for gets you to the surge rating of 2400 watts. Good luck finding your gremlin!

Sanjuan2, I hope Chance or someone like him jumps in on this one to back me up or shoot me down.

I seem to recall the fuse is rated for the wiring, not the inverter. It's a common mistake. The fuse should blow if there's too much current going through the wire, not if the inverter is pushing too much current. A wire carrying too much current can heat up, melt and cause a fire. In almost all cases, the wire is the weakest link in chain. You can hope the inverter output throws a breaker first but I wouldn't bet my life on it - and you just might be doing that.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by RvEd

Sanjuan2, I hope Chance or someone like him jumps in on this one to back me up or shoot me down.

I seem to recall the fuse is rated for the wiring, not the inverter. It's a common mistake. The fuse should blow if there's too much current going through the wire, not if the inverter is pushing too much current. A wire carrying too much current can heat up, melt and cause a fire. In almost all cases, the wire is the weakest link in chain. You can hope the inverter output throws a breaker first but I wouldn't bet my life on it - and you just might be doing that.

The fuse is rated for the weakest link. It may be the wire capacity or it may be the load capacity.

[ComputerChips]

I 2nd the A fix. Just remove the slide wire and extend it to the output connection.
If I had installed this, I probably would have just run 2 new cables from the inverter to the breaker box rather than cutting into the existing romex mid stream. One cable would be spliced to the wire(s) that I removed from the breaker and the other wire to be connected to the breaker that is now empty.
Good things CAN happen on Friday the 13th.

[Long & Winding road]

Originally Posted by ComputerChips

I 2nd the A fix. Just remove the slide wire and extend it to the output connection.
If I had installed this, I probably would have just run 2 new cables from the inverter to the breaker box rather than cutting into the existing romex mid stream. One cable would be spliced to the wire(s) that I removed from the breaker and the other wire to be connected to the breaker that is now empty.
Good things CAN happen on Friday the 13th.

Ok, Well I dont (and wont) have any “empty breakers” that you mentioned when I am done.... both wires were orginally connected to one 15 amp breaker in the OEM fuse panel but I did not notice that when I cut the white romex line to install the inverter. So one wire will remain connected from breaker panel to the inverters input side.

I had to cut the romex to install this inverter "mid stream" (which is after the breaker but before the outlets) so it functions properly. For about 4 or 5 weeks I have been using RV on weekends and everything works fine except for that one outlet in question.

Not sure what you mean by running “both cables from inverter to breaker box” (Of coarse I see it the other way ….Im running one cable FROM the breakers to the inverter but the end results are the same - LOL).

This inverter is only designed for one input (AC 120 V) and one output (AC 120 V) and I dont see a point of having a junction box on the "input" side of the inverter for the TWO wires if thats is what you mean. Both wires will have to be connected on the OUTPUT side of the inverter in order to power everything that I want to power.

A little background info on this 1200 watt inverter: It has only one circuit and is rated at "10 amps" which is enough for me - only charging one Iphone and one lap top (not always at the same time), one TV and perhaps a DVD player at night …..I would not dare plug in a heater or blow dryer. And I run the Frig on propane (but I can run on this inverter if I wanted to - rather save my battery juice for other stuff).

No room inside the inverters "built in" junction box so it would require piggy back wires but I rather use a seperate junction box.

The current plan is to install a junction box about a foot or two down stream of the inverters AC output for this black wire to connect to. This way both will be powered by the inverter when needed and both will work properly when I hooked up to shore power which causes the inverters "auto transfer" from DC the AC side.

I can mount this new junction box to a wall or stud in the compartment when done and all wire will be safe and secure.

If someone has a better way to hookup this one black wire up please let me know. I have limited electrical experence and might be overlooking something.

Thanks for all the input on this subject. Im so glad we figured it out.

[ComputerChips]

It seems you aren't following my explanation of the way I would have done it.
1. I would have disconnected the coach wire(s) that were on the desired receptacle breaker. Now that breaker is "free" to use.
2. I would have run one new wire from the inverter's "input" to the breaker box to the now "free" breaker.
3. I would have run a second new wire from the inverter's output to the breaker box and spliced it to the wire(s) I had removed on step 1.
This way there are no "remote" splices. The entire operation could be undone and put back to original configuration.

Glad you were able to confirm our "hunches" that there was an unknown branch circuit upstream from the inverter. Have a good weekend.

[Long & Winding road]

Originally Posted by ComputerChips

It seems you aren't following my explanation of the way I would have done it.
1. I would have disconnected the coach wire(s) that were on the desired receptacle breaker. Now that breaker is "free" to use.
2. I would have run one new wire from the inverter's "input" to the breaker box to the now "free" breaker.
3. I would have run a second new wire from the inverter's output to the breaker box and spliced it to the wire(s) I had removed on step 1.
This way there are no "remote" splices. The entire operation could be undone and put back to original configuration.

Glad you were able to confirm our "hunches" that there was an unknown branch circuit upstream from the inverter. Have a good weekend.

I read your reply 5 times now.

This is what I "think" your saying…… run my inverter power back though this what your calling a Free breaker and then to the outlets I want to power???

Well this breaker is not free so I would have to run a jumper cable from the fuse panel (no breakers) to the input on the inverter then back to the breaker for my output side.

If I wired your way would that not require me to run this inverter all the time to power outlets? (Right now I turn on when im NOT on shore or Genny power only). . Or maybe Im still not getting it....

Perhaps your not understanding I have the "auto transfer switch" built into this inverter? So it was designed to be hooked up the way I have it now from what I read.

When im on shore power it bypasses this inverter and acts normal. I would rather have my OEM breaker on the input side of the inverter for shore power and the inverter has a build in fuse (which I assume protects the inverter as well as the output power.??).

I can see how that would work but its not what I read from 2 or 3 difference inverter manufactures installation guide and several internet sites so I wired the way they suggested for my small auto transfer inverter.

I thought about adding an additional breaker on the output side of inverter for safety but I could not find any info on this so assumed this fuse was sufficient.

[Long & Winding road]

Originally Posted by sanjaun2

I am following this thread because I really want to know what your problem was once you fixit I just bought the same inverter last week. I am waiting on my fuses to show up from Amazon. my unit came with no instructions or wiring diagrams! Are you sure 40 amps is sufficient for the DC side? 40x12=480 watts. 100 amps for the rated 1200 watts. 200 amps for gets you to the surge rating of 2400 watts. Good luck finding your gremlin!

FYI: I just looked at the Aims owner manual and it says to use a 150 amp fuse for this model.

[ComputerChips]

Last try:
When you cut the romex in half you essentially freed up the breaker...for the moment. My method would have been Not to cut the romex in half away from the box but make the "cut in point" inside the breaker box itself.
Either way accomplishes the same result. Breaker >Inverter>All recepts fed by the source breaker originally.

[Long & Winding road]

Ok, thanks.

[Long & Winding road]

We are done!

Late yesterday afternoon I was able to work this project. The two hardest things was removing the hot wire from the fuse panel and the wire clamp on the back of the panel. Thor had that one screw to the hot wire so tight I tried to use 4 different screw drivers (each one bigger or diff size end on it), power drill then finally I took out the impact driver (the kind you hit with hammer and it twists a little). And the darn plastic wire clamp was hard to release but I finally was able to pull the wire out and reuse the old clamp on the one wire left.

I added some extra wire clamps to my new and old wiring project just to be safe (plus I had some leftovers).

I tested everything afterwards and it works great. You can put the RV on shore power with inverter on standby mode but as soon as you remove shore power the inverter switches to battery power and the TV never went off or even flickered. I was impressed. Same thing with that one outlet in question. And I tried it in reverse (inverter on first then to shore power).

Thanks again for your help. Im beginning to think there is nothing the Thor Forum collective cannot figure out.