Parasitic Load with Use/Store Switch in Store

[Oneilkeys]

Originally Posted by FW28z

With the use/store switch in the use position, the battery for sure will be under load. There are residual loads such as DC power to the fridge, water heater, furnace, and so on. So the technician leaving the switch into the USE position for 30 days most certainly discharged the batteries.

One thing I have found on my coach, that whenever you connect to shorepower, the battery USE/STORE function automatically goes into USE position - most likely to put a charge on the batteries. But when I disconnect shorepower, the battery stays in USE position.

This makes it very easy to forget to turn the coach batteries off when coming back from camping, a technician doing a repair at the dealership, etc.

You are lucky that your Use/store automatically goes to "use" when you connect to shore power. In my Vegas, that did not happen. Several times I have forgotten to switch to "use" and the house batteries will not charge until you do so. I have not checked my new Axis, but I will.

[09 Challenger]

Originally Posted by bevedfelker

We've had a lot of discussion on the forum regarding house batteries discharging. Has anyone researched exactly what parasitic load is on the house batteries when disconnected with the use/store switch in store. On my 2015 Vegas with the switch in Store none of my interior lights will come on, the radio will not work, there is no current on the USB connection under the radio, none of my CO or fire detectors work, the led light on the antenna booster is out.

So for all intents and purposes my house batteries act like they are completely isolated. I have not checked to see if my radio clock stays updated.

Does anyone know of any other load that could drain the batteries while the switch is in Store. My coach has been stored for 5 weeks and when I check the batteries still have all the lights come on the status panel showing full charge.

Then you have no problem

[bevedfelker]

Challenger -- that's what I'm hoping. The time at the dealer's and their leaving the switch in USE I'm regarding as an anomaly since I've never had coach battery problems before. Normally I keep the switch in Store. I put it in USE when we head out for each of our trips. My Vegas also automatically goes to USE when I plug into shore power as well.

[bevedfelker]

Talked to Thor Customer Service technician today -- and definitely Oneilkeys' 2014 was wired incorrectly. The white wire on the radio power plug is ground. There is a yellow/black wire that goes to house batteries. This provides power to operate the radio and provide current to the USB port(s). The red wire goes to the ignition switch. This provides current from the CHASSIS battery to keep the clock time current and maintain the radio preselects.

So with the STORE/USE in STORE the radio is isolated from the house batteries. But when you go to USE and turn on the radio, the time will be correct and the preselects are still current because that power came from the chassis battery not the house batteries.

BY the way -- I discussed Harris batteries with him and he told me Thor is no longer installing them because of all the problems and their lack of warranty support blaming the WFCO converter for not properly charging the batteries. He said they have had no complaints from any of the other battery manufacturers about WFCO converters.

[Oneilkeys]

Originally Posted by bevedfelker

Talked to Thor Customer Service technician today -- and definitely Oneilkeys' 2014 was wired incorrectly. The white wire on the radio power plug is ground. There is a yellow/black wire that goes to house batteries. This provides power to operate the radio and provide current to the USB port(s). The red wire goes to the ignition switch. This provides current from the CHASSIS battery to keep the clock time current and maintain the radio preselects.

So with the STORE/USE in STORE the radio is isolated from the house batteries. But when you go to USE and turn on the radio, the time will be correct and the preselects are still current because that power came from the chassis battery not the house batteries.

BY the way -- I discussed Harris batteries with him and he told me Thor is no longer installing them because of all the problems and their lack of warranty support blaming the WFCO converter for not properly charging the batteries. He said they have had no complaints from any of the other battery manufacturers about WFCO converters.

Great! Thank you for checking. I noticed that when I picked up much new Axis that it did not have a Harris battery. I won't know how the new ones last because I switched out my two 29's for the one 24 in the new coach.
My new Axis seems to be wired correctly and there is no apparent drain on the batteries when in Store mode after a week.

[BCRacing24]

Originally Posted by bevedfelker

BY the way -- I discussed Harris batteries with him and he told me Thor is no longer installing them because of all the problems and their lack of warranty support blaming the WFCO converter for not properly charging the batteries. He said they have had no complaints from any of the other battery manufacturers about WFCO converters.

Anyone with any electrical knowledge can verify the WFCO converter/charger is junk with an excessively high failure rate. Mine specifically wouldn't change out of float mode no mater what that battery state of charge was. A quick Google search will verify excessive failures with their units !!
Thor's reasoning for telling you Harris is the problem is more than likely due to the fact it will cost Thor nothing to switch battery suppliers, maybe even save them some money. But to switch from an inexpensive WFCO to a quality charger such as Progressive Dynamics would cost over $100 per unit.
Simple profit margin math.....

Harris is as good and better than a lot of other "deep cycle marine" batteries, just compare the weight of Harris to others......

[FW28z]

Some of the campground scuttlebutt surrounding the issue between Thor and Harris was that Harris claimed Thor was storing the batteries long term without properly maintaining them (maintenance charge, keeping cells topped off, etc).

The other possibility might be that Harris would not honor the warranty issues due to the way they were being stored at the RV plant between delivery to the plant and delivery to the dealer. Changing battery suppliers might not mean the other batteries are better - it might just mean they are honoring failed batteries that have been improperly stored.

Or perhaps the new battery company periodically checks and maintains the batteries at the RV factory.

Maybe I have been lucky but I have not had any problems with either the Harris batteries or made-in-China WFCO converter. Last season, after 5 seasons of use, I finally replaced the Harris batteries with new Interstate batteries.

If I ever have any issue with the converter, there are a couple of YouTube videos that replace the "guts" of the WFCO with the Progressive Dynamics one (not sure which model number). On one video, the guy replaced both the charger/power supply module and DC fuse panel. The replacements were the same form factor so they bolted right in.

His only modification was having to cut out a clearance hole for the switch that manually changes charge modes.

So that might be an option without having to remove the box if you have any issues with the WFCO converter.

[Oneilkeys]

Good info. I will check the converter in my new Axix.

WFCO 8700 Series 12 Amp RV Power Center Converter - $87.90

Is this one any better? Would it be that much cheaper to replace parts of the old one rather than purchasing a new one?

[BCRacing24]

No reason to replace an inferior product with another in my humble opinion. Replace it with something that will last the life of the RV, as well as something that will monitor & condition your expensive batteries making them last twice as long..... Everything you need to replace & upgrade is in the box, charger, DC circuit board and smart wizard.
PD4655

http://www.progressivedyn.com/pd4600...placement.html

This is where I bought mine...... Family owned business by an American Vet[emoji106]

http://www.bestconverter.com/PD4655-...l#.Vq4jPkVOKc0

[Oneilkeys]

Originally Posted by BCRacing24

No reason to replace an inferior product with another in my humble opinion. Replace it with something that will last the life of the RV, as well as something that will monitor & condition your expensive batteries making them last twice as long..... Everything you need to replace & upgrade is in the box, charger, DC circuit board and smart wizard.
PD4655

4600 Series Upgrade or Replacement Power Converters

This is where I bought mine...... Family owned business by an American Vet[emoji106]

PD4655 55 Amp Converter Upgrade Section

Thanks. I will put it on my list..

[vkb]

Regarding the radios...the Axxera in the dashboard...during the walk-through the tech said the only way to turn it off was to use the store/use switch. I found the volume knob is also, the on/off switch.
The Jensen in the bedroom...seems to be the concern of everyone. We have not addressed that yet, regarding the parasite-discharge.
We tend to work together to solve issues..and I have not ridden in the new RV as of this writing..Ron sez the house lights will not turn on....when on the road.
Obviously, we are accustomed to our 'old' Dorado, which is a Thor product, but, in the Four Winds Class B+ line.
Any general suggestions regarding the control panel and electrical will be appreciated.

[FW28z]

I think you will find that using the on/off volume knob, it only puts the radio into standby or sleep mode.

Typically such radios still consume some power when turned off from the panel due to the "keep alive" memory of the radio is still active.

This memory retains the channel pre-sets, clock time, and other parameters.

For bedroom radios, such as the Jensen JWM1A, they only have a single power lead (red wire only, not a yellow one). The power switch puts the radio in on or standby mode.

I don't have one of these radios in my coach, but I suspect you will get some parasitic drain from this radio as well, simply because the manual indicates the modes are on/standby, not on/off.

[09 Challenger]

Originally Posted by bevedfelker

Challenger -- that's what I'm hoping. The time at the dealer's and their leaving the switch in USE I'm regarding as an anomaly since I've never had coach battery problems before. Normally I keep the switch in Store. I put it in USE when we head out for each of our trips. My Vegas also automatically goes to USE when I plug into shore power as well.

The tech prob had the lights on and stereo playing the whole time he worked on it

[Terryo]

Hi Has anyone out there installed a Bogart Engineering TM2030 battery monitor? Does anyone have a wiring diagram of the 2016 Vegas double battery set up? It is a zoo under there.

[scrubjaysnest]

Take a look at my solar install thread here: http://www.thorforums.com/forums/f27...olar-5678.html
It shows where I mounted the Trimetric.
I'll try and locate the link that has the house battery compartment wiring that others have posted on the forums.
Radios, gas/co2 detectors, and the B.I.R.D all use power.
Look through Ed's stuff found here: http://www.thorforums.com/forums/f10...nual-4961.html

[gauthig]

One more item to think about with respect to the use/store switch. If you have an inverter it may be wired directly to the batteries bypassing the use/store switch.

My Hurricane 35C does just that so you need to also make sure the Inverter is off also. Otherwise, my fridge will suck the batteries dry.

[scrubjaysnest]

Originally Posted by gauthig

One more item to think about with respect to the use/store switch. If you have an inverter it may be wired directly to the batteries bypassing the use/store switch.

My Hurricane 35C does just that so you need to also make sure the Inverter is off also. Otherwise, my fridge will suck the batteries dry.

Very important thought as many times the wiring between battery(s) and the relay used to disable the coach isn't large enough to support anything but the smallest inverter.

[gauthig]

Originally Posted by scrubjaysnest

Very important thought as many times the wiring between battery(s) and the relay used to disable the coach isn't large enough to support anything but the smallest inverter.

Nice catch.

As I look at the schematics I see 6 gauge going from the battery to the disconnect relay with a 50amp fuse and then the 12V panel. But the 1800W inverter uses 4 gauge and a 100amp fuse.

Yes the large inverter is too big for the use/store switch and relay.