Seeking advice on suspension modifications

Locknut · 12-10-2016, 01:53 AM

As I stated in one of my earlier posts, we purchased our Vegas 25.3 for travelling more than for extended camping, so drivability is of vital importance. Reading these forums, I've learned that I should have the front end aligned and I have an appointment for that on Thursday, December 15th. I've also seen several recommendations for the Safe-T-Plus steering damper, and I will have that installed on Thursday also, right after the alignment is finished.

So my questions are:

1. Does the CHF apply to the E450 chassis on the Vegas, and if it does, would it matter if it is done before or after the alignment?

2. What other suspension modifications would this group recommend...sway bars, air bags, etc? Please mention specific products if you have a preference.

Thanks for any comments you may have.

JamieGeek · 12-10-2016, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locknut

1. Does the CHF apply to the E450 chassis on the Vegas, and if it does, would it matter if it is done before or after the alignment?

No: The CHF is for the F-53 chassis used on the larger motorhomes.

Hudsoner · 12-10-2016, 02:06 AM

The CHF applies only to the F53/F550 and heavier chassis. If you unit does not have one, front and rear sway bar is always to be recommended.
A rear track bar comes to mind and probably Sumo springs or air bags could help to improve the ride.
Depending on you weight distribution, weighing down the front could also help to make the ride more comfortable. This seems not to be required with my F350 pickup truck with a diesel engine, but my motorhome on the F53 chassis definitely needs some added weight in the front.
You hav to experiment a little to find out, if you need it or not.

Oneilkeys · 12-10-2016, 02:11 AM

The CHF only applies to the F-53 chassis and not the E-350/450. There is a lot discussion in this forum on upgrades to improve the handling of the Axis/Vegas (use the search function above to look for posts). I have owned both a Vegas and an Axis and out 34000 miles on them in the past three years. One trip was 14,000 miles to Alaska and back. I have not added or changed anything concerning the suspension and I have been very satisfied with both coaches on multiple long trips. Others in this forum would disagree with that. If I were you, I would take it on a trip and see if it handles to your satisfaction. The Vegas was my third RV and the Axis my fourth and I have owned several 3/4 ton vans over the years, so I am used to driving E-350/450 chassis types. If you are not, you might not be as happy with the handling. But I would try it first before I spent a lot of money on improvements.

Oneilkeys · 12-10-2016, 02:24 AM

To Locknut. If you have not downloaded Ed's manual on the Axis/Vegas you should do so.

https://1drv.ms/w/s!AiYx6DLSeiiP6UNyy_VYGDO0BW6L

Pages 38-40 have an excellent discussion on the handling characteristics of the Axis/Vegas. The whole manual is a must read for all Axis/Vegas owners.

Locknut · 12-10-2016, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

No: The CHF is for the F-53 chassis used on the larger motorhomes.

Thanks...I suspected that about the CHF according to what I had read, but just wanted a definitive answer.

Locknut · 12-10-2016, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hudsoner

The CHF applies only to the F53/F550 and heavier chassis. If you unit does not have one, front and rear sway bar is always to be recommended.
A rear track bar comes to mind and probably Sumo springs or air bags could help to improve the ride.
Depending on you weight distribution, weighing down the front could also help to make the ride more comfortable. This seems not to be required with my F350 pickup truck with a diesel engine, but my motorhome on the F53 chassis definitely needs some added weight in the front.
You hav to experiment a little to find out, if you need it or not.

Good information...from driving pickups, I would have though of putting weight over the rear wheels, but adding weight to the front instead makes sense to give the front wheels better grip.

Locknut · 12-10-2016, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oneilkeys

The CHF only applies to the F-53 chassis and not the E-350/450. There is a lot discussion in this forum on upgrades to improve the handling of the Axis/Vegas (use the search function above to look for posts). I have owned both a Vegas and an Axis and out 34000 miles on them in the past three years. One trip was 14,000 miles to Alaska and back. I have not added or changed anything concerning the suspension and I have been very satisfied with both coaches on multiple long trips. Others in this forum would disagree with that. If I were you, I would take it on a trip and see if it handles to your satisfaction. The Vegas was my third RV and the Axis my fourth and I have owned several 3/4 ton vans over the years, so I am used to driving E-350/450 chassis types. If you are not, you might not be as happy with the handling. But I would try it first before I spent a lot of money on improvements.

I traded in a 1999 37' Pace Arrow that, honestly, drove terribly. There is already so much improvement between it and the Vegas, that I could never complain about the Vegas ride or drive. My wife would never drive the old unit, but I am hoping to get her to do so with the Vegas. I just want to make it as good as possible before I put her behind the steering wheel.

Locknut · 12-10-2016, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oneilkeys

To Locknut. If you have not downloaded Ed's manual on the Axis/Vegas you should do so.

https://1drv.ms/w/s!AiYx6DLSeiiP6UNyy_VYGDO0BW6L

Pages 38-40 have an excellent discussion on the handling characteristics of the Axis/Vegas. The whole manual is a must read for all Axis/Vegas owners.

Yep...that is a great resource for all the Axis/Vegas owners. I've downloaded it, printed it, and have it in a notebook in my coach for easy reference . I haven't had time to read it all yet, but I will (just bought this coach a week ago). I'll look at the pages you referenced asap. Thanks.

Oneilkeys · 12-10-2016, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locknut

Good information...from driving pickups, I would have though of putting weight over the rear wheels, but adding weight to the front instead makes sense to give the front wheels better grip.

Before you add any weight to your Vegas, you need to weigh your vehicle first. Both of mine were/are maxed out on front axel weight at close to 5000 lbs. in my E-450 Axis I am 100 lbs under on the front axel and 2000 lbs under on the rear axel. Comments from others who have the E-350 chassis put them at close to max weight on the rear axel, when they are loaded. The E-350 is rated at 2000 lbs less than the E-450, all in the rear.

Joe-FL · 12-10-2016, 03:56 PM

Locknut, I don't have the Vegas, but I am pursuing improvements in my Challenger handling. I did the CHF and then the front end alignment. The drivability has improved so now I will be adding the Safe-T. I am doing it in stages so I can take short trips in between and try to measure how much each modification helps. Spending thousands on Sumo's, bigger sway bars, heavy duty shocks, and other add-ons could be in my future but I am proceeding slowly.

TyCreek · 12-10-2016, 06:51 PM

Here's a quick stab at direct steps to great handling:
1) Get springs matched to the optimal height and rates for the weights they individually carry now. During this process you'll know where your weight is and possibly make alternate loading choices so make sure this work is conducted with a fully travel loaded rig.
2) Replace or adjust anything with marginal or excessive play or lash. During the spring replacement process is a good time to measure play at every point.
3) Get alignment tuned for max loads. Example: castor at about 5 degrees or a bit more and make sure the rear axel is aligned ok too. If you mostly travel secondary 2 lane roads consider a cross-camber/caster alignment tune.

These don't require another alignment...
4) increase sway bar spring rate transfer (more is typically better unless you travel dirt roads often)
5) Trackbar, if you don't already have one, helps reduce axel shift (rear steer/yaw/tailwag)
6) Add steering stabilizer with optimal dampening for driver's bliss. STP has nice heavy valving however it is center biased and I found it perfect for freeway travel but not so great on secondary 2 lane roads.
7) Consider shocks because valving can make a big difference in how a near max loaded rig behaves.
8) Tires can also change how a vehicle behaves.

When I've been on the quest for handling improvements it always happened in a different order of course. Typically other suspension mods precluded bushing/spring work for reasons like "it's new and must be ok... right?".

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