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Old 03-30-2019, 05:58 PM   #1
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THOR #12751
Thor Outlaw 29H - Leveler Controller Location

Since I got my rig back from the dealer for warranty work (5 hour drive one way) I have had leveler issues.

Does anyone know where the LCI Level-Up Controller is located in the Outlaw 29H? I have checked the Floor Plan Schematics from the Customer AResource Center and don't see it listed anywhere.

I'm getting a Jacks Down error even though the jacks are up. The fluid level is full and I don't see signs of a leak. Troubleshooting says possible leak on return line. I haven't crawled under to actually check connection tightness but I would think there would be fluid on the jacks if there was a leak. I check the lines at the pump and all tight and dry.

I pulled connectors and reseated them and tried pulling the battery cables off to reset the system. When I do that and turn it on for a brief second it says Jacks Up and then goes to Jacks Down.

If I let off the parking break the alarm sounds and it tries to raise them even though they are up and eventually trips the breaker.

I can manually level the unit with no issues. All the levelers go up and down as they should. The Auto Level won't work because it thinks the Jacks are down and it tries to raise them first. We have our first trip of the season coming up in two weeks and I could probably try to use it in manual mode... but I would need to find a way to disable the alarm once the parking break is off.

I still have a few months of warranty but don't want a 10-hour roundtrip back to the dealer. What really irks me is I was getting a Low Voltage message when I picked it up and they said it was because the battery was low from sitting. When I got it home and started digging into it I found the breaker tripped.

I hate to start throwing parts at it and money out of my own pocket but I want to exhaust everything I can. I'll then see if I can get the dealer or Thor to send me the parts under warranty for me to try to fix myself.... at least stuff I can get at and replace.

Thanks in advance!
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Old 03-30-2019, 08:23 PM   #2
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Mounted to the ceiling in one of the outside storage bins. Forgot which one, and not near my coach.
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Old 03-30-2019, 08:32 PM   #3
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THOR #12751
Thor Outlaw 29H - Leveler Controller Location

Ok.... thanks. I saw the controller for the Slide and the Inverter but I have not found the leveler controller. Iíll have to look at the outside storage bins again. I would have thought it was inside the coach closer to center as I thought it handles the pitch measurements.
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Old 03-31-2019, 12:39 AM   #4
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Still haven't found the controller for the Levelers. I checked all the outside storage cabinets.

I may have narrowed it down to the pressure switch. For the heck of it I added some fluid but as I suspected it didn't solve the issue with the Jack Down alarm. I see no signs of leaks at the return lines and that is the first thing they tell you to check.

If I pull the connector from the pressure switch, the Control Panel goes to Jacks Up. At that point I can Auto Level. However, the Control Panel always things the jacks are up so you can't retract them.

If I plug the connector back into the pressure switch, I can hit Auto Retract the jacks fully retract. The motor continues to run and the Control Panel says Jacks Down until it trips the breaker.

This tells me that when the jacks are up, the switch is open. When the jacks are down, the switch is closed.

I am trying to find some troubleshooting steps for the pressure switch but not having much luck online.

A pressure switch is $135.... which is cheaper than a trip to the dealer even though I'm under warranty. I am probably going to call Lippert on Monday to see what their technical support says. If they think it is the pressure switch, I may call Thor to see if they will send one.

Of course the pressure switch is on the back side of the unit so that doesn't help make it east to change.


Edit: I found the pressure switch on Amazon for $115 and it can be here Monday. I decided to order it and see if it solves the problem or not. If it doesn't, then I'll know I'll need to take it to a dealer. If it fixes the problem, I will see if Thor will reimburse me.
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Old 03-31-2019, 01:02 PM   #5
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Just a suggestion, it may be the problem, maybe not.

At the pump and manifold area, the manifold is the aluminum block that all the directional valves, etc, are screwed into.
On each side, (at least on ours), you will see a round, flat screw driver plug about the size on a dime.
These are the pressure relief valves for each direction of flow, as there is a directional flow valve in the mix too.
The system relies on a pressure signal, from the pressure valve, for it to know where things are at.

They sit on a spring holding a small ball bearing, the check.
Turning them clockwise will increase pressure needed to bleed by.

The system may not be seeing the proper pressure spike reading to signal the "brain" that things are where they need to be.

I am not sure which side may need adjusting, this may be a trial and error.
I would try a quarter turn in at a time to see if this works.

Note where they are set now, if you need to return them.
Do not set them all the way bottomed out, as that will essentially block them off completely, and the pressure signal will not work right and there will be no protection for the pump, (what they are there for also).

I hope you understand what I am trying to say here, and I hope it resolves your problem.

Let us know if it does.
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Old 03-31-2019, 01:24 PM   #6
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Admitting here I was an industrial machine repairman/machinist, during my career (retired now), and have a modest training, and experience with hydraulics, and some of its theory, but I am no expert on it all...

We had a problem on ours and it turned out to be the directional valve sticking.
Taking the valve out, there is a number etched into it.
From there, a Google search led me to the part, and the mfr.
Then at mfr's site, found a dealer, an industrial supply chain like Grainger, or something, you may find the part is only $40.
That's what happened to me, but they did not keep the Deltronics part on hand, and Deltronics had a $75 minimum order to my supplier, so I had to purchase them both.

But, if you have the determination to get your hands dirty, spill some oil, you can get it figured out.

Good luck...
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Old 03-31-2019, 04:56 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge View Post
Still haven't found the controller for the Levelers. I checked all the outside storage cabinets.

Iím not 100% sure, but I believe this is the controller on my 29H. It just says ďno user serviceable parts insideĒ on the part of the sticker thatís visible on the side.
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Old 03-31-2019, 05:13 PM   #8
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Better sticker view. This is in the driver rear outside compartment, alongside the transfer switch, slide controller, and inverter.
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Old 03-31-2019, 06:26 PM   #9
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Kickstand, is that for the Lippert slide out?
Mine in there where the electric cord stores, and am sure it says that.
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Old 03-31-2019, 07:03 PM   #10
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Judge, I believe the leveler controller is mounted to the ceiling in the small compartment just to the left of the coach entry door. You might try to reset your unit at the control panel and see if this clears the error. My unit has had a jacks down error several times after it has been in storage and upon first starting the unit. I found that resetting the system cleared the error and every thing was back to normal.
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Old 03-31-2019, 08:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtymer View Post
Judge, I believe the leveler controller is mounted to the ceiling in the small compartment just to the left of the coach entry door. You might try to reset your unit at the control panel and see if this clears the error. My unit has had a jacks down error several times after it has been in storage and upon first starting the unit. I found that resetting the system cleared the error and every thing was back to normal.
I have tried a couple reset procedures I have read about. Nothing seemed to help. What was the key presses you used and was the controller on or off?
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Old 03-31-2019, 08:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickstand View Post
Attachment 16408

Better sticker view. This is in the driver rear outside compartment, alongside the transfer switch, slide controller, and inverter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10scDust View Post
Kickstand, is that for the Lippert slide out?
Mine in there where the electric cord stores, and am sure it says that.

Yep..... that is for the Slide Out.
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Old 03-31-2019, 08:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10scDust View Post
Just a suggestion, it may be the problem, maybe not.

At the pump and manifold area, the manifold is the aluminum block that all the directional valves, etc, are screwed into.
On each side, (at least on ours), you will see a round, flat screw driver plug about the size on a dime.
These are the pressure relief valves for each direction of flow, as there is a directional flow valve in the mix too.
The system relies on a pressure signal, from the pressure valve, for it to know where things are at.

They sit on a spring holding a small ball bearing, the check.
Turning them clockwise will increase pressure needed to bleed by.

The system may not be seeing the proper pressure spike reading to signal the "brain" that things are where they need to be.

I am not sure which side may need adjusting, this may be a trial and error.
I would try a quarter turn in at a time to see if this works.

Note where they are set now, if you need to return them.
Do not set them all the way bottomed out, as that will essentially block them off completely, and the pressure signal will not work right and there will be no protection for the pump, (what they are there for also).

I hope you understand what I am trying to say here, and I hope it resolves your problem.

Let us know if it does.
Thanks! That is well worth the try. Out of everything I read nothing mentioned trying that. I will give it a try after dinner and let you know!
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Old 03-31-2019, 08:45 PM   #14
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THOR #12751
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10scDust View Post
Admitting here I was an industrial machine repairman/machinist, during my career (retired now), and have a modest training, and experience with hydraulics, and some of its theory, but I am no expert on it all...

We had a problem on ours and it turned out to be the directional valve sticking.
Taking the valve out, there is a number etched into it.
From there, a Google search led me to the part, and the mfr.
Then at mfr's site, found a dealer, an industrial supply chain like Grainger, or something, you may find the part is only $40.
That's what happened to me, but they did not keep the Deltronics part on hand, and Deltronics had a $75 minimum order to my supplier, so I had to purchase them both.

But, if you have the determination to get your hands dirty, spill some oil, you can get it figured out.

Good luck...
\

Thanks for the tip!!!

I just did all the suspension upgrades on my rig so I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty!


So as I am learning about the Lippert Leveler System, are the 4 of these directional valves (one for each jack?) and is there an electrical connector on each one?

Is the valve and valve coil one unit or do you remove the coil and then the valve is further inside the manifold?

Any tricks to get getting it out and back in?
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Old 03-31-2019, 09:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10scDust View Post
Just a suggestion, it may be the problem, maybe not.

At the pump and manifold area, the manifold is the aluminum block that all the directional valves, etc, are screwed into.
On each side, (at least on ours), you will see a round, flat screw driver plug about the size on a dime.
These are the pressure relief valves for each direction of flow, as there is a directional flow valve in the mix too.
The system relies on a pressure signal, from the pressure valve, for it to know where things are at.

They sit on a spring holding a small ball bearing, the check.
Turning them clockwise will increase pressure needed to bleed by.

The system may not be seeing the proper pressure spike reading to signal the "brain" that things are where they need to be.

I am not sure which side may need adjusting, this may be a trial and error.
I would try a quarter turn in at a time to see if this works.

Note where they are set now, if you need to return them.
Do not set them all the way bottomed out, as that will essentially block them off completely, and the pressure signal will not work right and there will be no protection for the pump, (what they are there for also).

I hope you understand what I am trying to say here, and I hope it resolves your problem.

Let us know if it does.

I could get to the one adjuster on the right as you look at the pump and I moved it a few times at a 1/4 turn per time but no luck.

I can't get to the second adjuster on the left because there is some electrical component. Funny thing is I can't what this is in any of the Lippert documentation.

The pressure switch is in the back of the manifold with the valves and that is the only thing that shows any wiring on the manifold area but this is on the side of the pump housing and I can't see anywhere in the Lippert schematics and other documentation that says what it is or what it does.

A couple of the troubleshooting guides say to check the connector on the pressure switch or replace so I am hoping it is a bad pressure switch.


EDIT: Looks like that is the directional valve that is covering the other adjustment.
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Old 03-31-2019, 11:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10scDust View Post
Kickstand, is that for the Lippert slide out?
Mine in there where the electric cord stores, and am sure it says that.

Not the silver slide out controller on the back wall (that is definitely slide out), but the little black plastic box on the ceiling in front. (Circled in red in the first pic) Iím like 99.9% sure itís part of leveling. Looking at the manual it seems to be the rear remote sensor- so the main controller probably is more forward. Now that others mention it, I do recall another component in the little basement storage to the left of the coach door; that must be the main forward controller.
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Old 04-01-2019, 01:02 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge View Post
I could get to the one adjuster on the right as you look at the pump and I moved it a few times at a 1/4 turn per time but no luck.

I can't get to the second adjuster on the left because there is some electrical component. Funny thing is I can't what this is in any of the Lippert documentation.

The pressure switch is in the back of the manifold with the valves and that is the only thing that shows any wiring on the manifold area but this is on the side of the pump housing and I can't see anywhere in the Lippert schematics and other documentation that says what it is or what it does.

A couple of the troubleshooting guides say to check the connector on the pressure switch or replace so I am hoping it is a bad pressure switch.


EDIT: Looks like that is the directional valve that is covering the other adjustment.
Yes, on the left side is the directional flow valve in your pic.

To remove any of them, first the nut on the end.
Second, slide the coil off, there is an o-ring too.
Lastly, with a deep well socket, I believe 7/8", counter clockwise to get them out.
Putting them in, about as tight, or slightly more than spark plugs, just tight, not superman tight.

Inspect the little O-rings on the cartridge, look for dirt or debris, and do not introduce any either, keep it clean.
These are also known as logic valves.

The directional valve is electro magnet (the coil) activated to shift flow to extend, normal flow is for jack retraction (up).
On it, once removed, you should be able to push the spool with a small enough allen wrench, and will be able to tell if it is stuck.

To get to the left side pressure relief adjuster, you should be able to get to it by just removing the coil, or turning the coil once loosened, and you may not need to unplug it, just slide it off, if you can.

The coils are not threaded on, they slide off a smooth shaft portion threaded near the end where the nut holds them on.

Tag them to remember where they go back if you remove more than one, or all.
Each coil has its own color wire on the coil, each with a black wire.

The logic valves, per cylinder are normally closed, the coil opens them.
The pump always turns the same direction, looking straight on, counter clock wise.

When you deploy the jacks (extend), that is when the directional valve comes to play, to direct fluid flow to the blind end of the cylinders involved.
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Old 04-01-2019, 01:15 AM   #18
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When seeing if a pressure adjustment works, hopefully you are clearing the error, and starting over to see if the error comes back.


The coils, are nothing more than an electro magnet, energized by electricity, and the coils magnetize.

The magnetizing shifts the spool, linearly within the valve component.
For each jack cartridge, either open fluid flow, or closed to fluid flow.
For the directional, either left to right, or right to left for fluid to flow.

To see if the coils are working, have assistant deploy jacks, with a small screw driver, you should be able to feel the magnetism of the valve where the nut holds the coil on.

The same with any of the four cylinder deployment cartridge valves, as each has its own coil.

The pressure switch doesn't have a coil.
It waits for a certain pressure to be present to send a signal, if it is working correctly.
Say; raising jacks up on auto,
pump turns on, directional valve not energized, fluid flows to rod end and jacks go back up into place, once all are bottomed out, pressure will spike and switch sends signal to complete the cycle.

If the pressure relief is not set high enough, fluid will flow past the check, pressure will never raise high enough for the switch to be satisfied, and send signal to the controller to end the cycle complete.

The other pressure relief adjustment, and I am not sure which side is for which direction of flow, this one protects the pump.
Say; on manual mode & extending the jacks, Push the button, directional valve energizes along with the pair of jack cylinder's coils, pump sends fluid, but they are at the end of their stroke, and you try going more, You don't want to jam up stop the pump with no where for the fluid to go, hence the ball check under a spring relieves that excess flow and pressure build up.

Hope this helps...
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Old 04-01-2019, 09:17 AM   #19
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Judge, the controller was on and I pressed the Retract and Enter buttons at the same time for approximately 3 seconds to reset the system. Hope this works for you.
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Old 04-01-2019, 10:03 AM   #20
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How to retract the jacks, manually, with system turned off.

Take the rubber plug out of the end of the pump's motor.
You will see a 1/2" hex.
Rotate that, counter clockwise, with a drill motor to pump the oil (you need something faster than by hand with a ratchet, need momentum).

Since, at idle, the directional valve is normal flow for jacks to go up.
Now you need to open the valve(s), per jacking cylinder, you need or want to raise.
With a 5/32" allen wrench, in the end of the cartridge valve per the jack cylinder, turn the set screw clockwise all the way till it bottoms out.
This physically opens the valve spool to allow fluid flow to the jack cylinder, as they are spring returned.

They do not need to be cranked tight, just till they stop, snugged, and they feel bottomed out.
Just remember to turn them back out when finished.
Then put the plug back into the motor.

I carry a drill motor, tools, and socket attachments for a just in case scenario.

My first experience was over 300 miles from home, had to use a prybar, and loosen the connections. LOL
This, before I ever dug into how/what the system does and works.
Then when at home, testing it out, they would not retract with this process.
Eventually finding that the directional valve was stuck midway.

I began thinking the pump was bad, it's a gear pump, would take a lot of dirt to destroy it, and it was pristine.
BTW, you cannot buy the pump itself alone, even though you find mfr, pump info, specs, and all.
You can buy everything else individually, but the pump comes in an $1800 system, all in one!

Maybe y'all know this procedure, just thought I would mention it.
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