Windsport 27K After Owning for 6000 Miles

[Metalman]

I posted this in another thread but figured it could use a thread of its own.

After owning the 2015 Windsport 27K motor home for nine months and traveling just over 6,000 miles I can list a few pros and cons. The motor home was purchased used with about 6,000 miles.

Pros:

• Short wheelbase allows for tight maneuvers.
• Back end is nice and high off the ground and doesn't drag where most will.
• It pulls a 7' x 12' dual axel trailer loaded with tools, rocks (we are collectors), clothing, and a 900-pound motorcycle with ease.
• The bathroom is well designed.
• The microwave works very well
• Overall interior storage space is excellent.
• Outside storage is adequate
• The captain's chairs are very comfortable and big-man size
• The engine has plenty of power and is relatively quiet.
• The shore power plug on the motor home and power cord are excellent compared to the type that has to be stuffed into a compartment. Being able to neatly coil the cable is a big plus.
• The fuel access door in the rear is convenient, now that I understand how close I need to be to the pump, particularly when on the left side of the pump.
• The slide-out and electric awning work very well.
• The location of the potable water tank is good and it fills fast. It’s nice to be able to see the tank to confirm the amount of fill.
• The size of the potable water tank is adequate (but 20 gallons more would be better)
• The generator works very well and did not fail when we were using it to run the AC and microwave in extremely hot ambient air.
• So far the construction and components appear to be able to withstand the shaking and banging from rough roads around the big cities and in the Northeast.
• There is plenty of legroom in both the driver and passenger’s seats.
• Headroom is excellent throughout the RV
• The rear LED turn/brake/tail lights are very visible, though set at an odd angle.
• Nice location for the inside TVs.
• Easy access to the engine air filter and oil filter.
• The flip-up computer station in front of the passenger’s seat.
• The 12-volt and 5-volt outlets.
• The placement of most 120-volt receptacles
• The mirrored storage compartments under the front overhead bed.
• The kitchen layout, especially the pullout pantry and the closet across from the refrigerator.
• The inside is very attractively decorated.
• The rear outside storage compartment on the slide-out.
• Conveniently placed driver’s switches and controls
• The three outside rear-facing cameras.
• The intelligent utilization of all interior space.
• Floor material is easy to clean and sweep out

Cons:
• Fuel mileage is terrible.
• Very rough riding.
• Rattling and internal noise is very bad when going over rough roads, even at low speed.
• The bed is too short (I’m 6’-4” tall).
• The toilet is too high for normal people – fine for me.
• The dinette seating is a joke. It’s like a torture chamber.
• The square shaped “nook” table is useless from the driver’s seat.
• The front grill looks like it was taken from a farm tractor.
• Terrible reflections in the driver side windows at times, hiding the view or the left rear view mirror.
• The radio has very poor reception on the FM band.
• The touch screen doesn’t work very well. (Ordered a remote control and that pretty much solved the problem)
• No inverter
• The light on the radio next to the bed is too bright at night (and the radio is totally unnecessary for us)
• An outside television – not necessary for us
• An outside shower – not necessary for us
• We’d prefer storage cabinet instead of the gas oven.
• Black water holding tank is a bit small
• Gray water holding tank is too small (but they all are).
• The motor home feels somewhat unstable when large trucks pass or in crosswinds, and on some road surfaces, but after driving it for 6,000 miles it isn’t much of a problem any more. Perhaps the trailer helps to stabilize it.
• The engine oil drain plug is over the front axel making it difficult to get a drain pan under it and it also tends to allow the oil to run along the axel.
• The location of the engine oil fill tube makes adding oil difficult, especially when having to pour seven quarts into the engine. (Can’t pour from a five quart jug and can’t pour into a funnel)
• The flush-style awning windows don’t provide much ventilation.
• A leaking leveling jack around 6,000 miles
• The domestic water pump failed at less than 10,000 miles
• The windshield washer pump failed at less than 7,000 miles
• I talked to the dealer about having a spare tire/wheel and was told that the wheels for the front are a different size than the wheels for the rear of the motor home. That is ridiculous.

No motor home is going to be trouble-free initially or any time during it’s life, unless it’s parked and not used. Then it will simply deteriorate over time. However, one would think that when newly purchased (new or used) they’d be in perfect condition for at least the first 300 feet. I don’t believe that happens very often. Nevertheless we are happy with ours...at this time.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Metalman

....cut....

Cons:
• Fuel mileage is terrible.
• Very rough riding.

.....cut......

How terrible is fuel economy? Lower than most other Class As or lower than you expected?

By the way, rough ride could be due in part to short wheelbase you mention as a "Pro" that makes motorhome more maneuverable.

[Metalman]

Originally Posted by Chance

How terrible is fuel economy? Lower than most other Class As or lower than you expected?

By the way, rough ride could be due in part to short wheelbase you mention as a "Pro" that makes motorhome more maneuverable.

Lower than I expected.
The fuel mileage is lower than any other motor home we've owned.
1986 24 foot GMC class C 350 ci
199? 33 foot Holiday Rambler class A 454 ci
2000 38 foot Holiday Rambler class A 300 HP diesel

I don't think the rough ride is entirely due to the short wheelbase. The short wheelbase would give it a choppy ride. I think the solid front end, with heavy, wide leaf springs and the heavy springs in the rear are relatively non compliant. Of course our last motor home had air suspension.

[Chance]

When we started looking at motorhomes I came to conclusion that full-size Class As would probably get around 7 MPG or so on gasoline -- depending greatly on speed. The wider or taller the body the lower the fuel economy I would expect.

[Metalman]

I am surprised that over the years the RV industry hasn't improved fuel economy. In fact, it's gotten worse. I couldn't believe that the big Holiday Rambler with a 454 gas engine would get better fuel economy than this shorter, lighter, and more modern motor home. I think you are right about the height and speed. Other factors are the shape of the nose of these bus like RVs, head winds, and hills. Interestingly, pulling the trailer doesn't seem to affect the MPG enough to measure.

I have a Scangauge that shows instantaneous fuel mileage, horse power, and gallons of fuel per hour consumed, among many other engine and operating functions.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Metalman

I am surprised that over the years the RV industry hasn't improved fuel economy. In fact, it's gotten worse. I couldn't believe that the big Holiday Rambler with a 454 gas engine would get better fuel economy than this shorter, lighter, and more modern motor home. I think you are right about the height and speed. Other factors are the shape of the nose of these bus like RVs, head winds, and hills. Interestingly, pulling the trailer doesn't seem to affect the MPG enough to measure.

I have a Scangauge that shows instantaneous fuel mileage, horse power, and gallons of fuel per hour consumed, among many other engine and operating functions.

I'm not as surprised because as buyers we don't seem to care as much about fuel economy when actually buying as when talking about it. I think given a choice most buyers choose "bigger" RVs as long as they are of equal cost. Few buyers will buy smaller RVs just to improve fuel economy (some may do it for other reasons). And unfortunately making a motorhome bigger or smaller doesn't change the cost all that much (everything else being equal). The quality of finishes, number of slides, number of air conditioners, etc. make a bigger difference than size alone.

Smaller quality motorhomes with potential for much higher fuel economy don't seem to have been accepted in large numbers in the past. Maybe industry offerings will change over time but odds are against it in my opinion.

[Runeasy]

As an owner of a new Thor Windsport 27K i am compelled to respond to your pro/con list. We have only 2K miles on our unit which we picked up in July but have enough Class A coach experience to agree with most of your "pro" list items and to question your "con" concerns.
We traded in our 2011 Winnebago Via for the Windsport. By comparison, the new coach is better appointed, roomier, and with considerably more storage. We had nothing but trouble with the Via - three trips in two years were either postponed or cancelled because of problems with the quirky Mercedes-Benz V6 turbo-diesel. My family's safety was in jeopardy each time. We definitely traded up.
The "cons" you mentioned are, for the most part, not problems for us.
- Fuel mileage? As motorhome owners we expect around 8 mpg - it's what we sign up for.
- Rough riding - it depends on the road conditions but the Windsport is built on a truck chassis: leaf springs front and rear, huge shocks, and sway bars as big as your wrist.
- Rattles and noise - you have to find and correct one at a time. My wife is good at running them down so we can tighten, shim, or otherwise cushion it later.
- Dinnette? No problem for me. I'm 6'1", 190#.
- Nook table from the driver's seat is not "useless" at all. You raise the steering wheel all the way, slide the seat back, and pivot it around. Works fine.
- Reflections on the driver's window. Really? Adapt and overcome.
- FM poor reception and touch screen doesn't work well? This is not copacetic. You should contact Jensen for a warranty replacement on that unit.
- No inverter? This is our third coach - and the first without an inverter. The only thing the inverter was good for was operating our televisions on battery power - which we never did. No need for an inverter.
- if the light on the bedroom radio is too bright for you and you never use the radio, disconnect it.
- We enjoy our gas oven. Every batch of cookies has come out perfectly.
- Problem adding oil? Pour one quart at a time - like we used to do before the stuff came in jugs.
The bottom line is that these machines are complicated. The designers are challenged to build a home that is functional, looks great, and lightweight - and then further challenged by mounting it onto a truck chassis for operation on what can be abysmal road conditions. As owners we need to be handy, clever, and intuitive - and not go running to the dealer demanding satisfaction every time something goes wrong.
Overall, we are very satisfied with our 27K and consider this line of coaches represents good solid value.

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by Runeasy

...The bottom line is that these machines are complicated. The designers are challenged to build a home that is functional, looks great, and lightweight - and then further challenged by mounting it onto a truck chassis for operation on what can be abysmal road conditions. As owners we need to be handy, clever, and intuitive - and not go running to the dealer demanding satisfaction every time something goes wrong.
...

Runeasy

Well stated and to the point.

[Metalman]

Runeasy,

You make some good points and provide some logical solutions to many of my cons.

I wonder what you think of the rear ladder? At 245 pounds, I started to use it once and realized that it was not up to the task. So I support it from the ground and use a 10 foot ladder to climb most of the way to the top. My previous motor homes had ladders that would easily hold my weight.

I guess you missed my last sentence. " Nevertheless we are happy with ours...at this time."

[Runeasy]

The Windsport is our first coach equipped with a ladder. I've been up on the roof a few times and it seems to work fine.

I did read your last comment and was aware of your overall satisfaction with the unit - so far.

Best of luck . . .

[pstandiford]

Originally Posted by Runeasy

- if the light on the bedroom radio is too bright for you and you never use the radio, disconnect it.

Not sure what kind of radio is in the bedroom but the display on ours can be dimmed or even turned off. However, it does reset when the power is turned off.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Runeasy

....cut....
- No inverter? This is our third coach - and the first without an inverter. The only thing the inverter was good for was operating our televisions on battery power - which we never did. No need for an inverter.
.....cut......

Your "no need for an inverter" interests me because, if anything, we've been thinking of going in the other direction.

Were your previous coach inverters and associated battery banks too small to run much more than just the TV? Could you run the microwave or make coffee without starting the generator?

We used our previous generator so little that I think we might get more use from that investment, weight, and space if applied to large inverter and more house batteries. Assuming of course it's even an option.

[Runeasy]

Right, plenty of battery power - twin 12V deep cycle and a 1KW inverter. We could have operated some appliances and entertainment systems but didn't see the sense in expending battery power on these superficial systems that - with the touch of a button - could be operated from the on-board generator. We prefer to save the batteries for essential systems, i.e. lighting, fridge, vents, and furnace.
It's just how we roll . . .

[Chance]

You are correct, it depends on our utilization patterns.

Like many things on both the pro and con lists, it's highly subjective based on individual expectations.

I never liked starting the generator for 60 seconds in the middle of the day to make a cup of coffee or warm it up if it got cold. I did it out of necessity but it felt highly "inefficient". An inverter providing power on demand for short bursts while driving around "sounds" more efficient to me because it's more transparent.

Since we stay in campgrounds with shore power, if I use an inverter it will likely be for a few minutes at a time and the battery energy will be replaced quickly by the alternator as we continue driving. I don't expect battery bank state of charge to be an issue very often. Still, it's good to check with others to see how it worked for them. I may be overlooking an obvious flaw with my plan.

In our case we would need more than a 1 kW inverter size because even our small coffee maker pulls around 1500 watts. And since prices have come down I was thinking it would be nice to have at least a 2,000-watt inverter/charger.

[petef]

I have the 27K so is a sister model. I do agree with most of the assessments.. I get close to 9 mpg but am not towing, it is about what I expected. My FM reception sucks, Jenson was no help neither was Camping World in trying to fix it. I suspect it is the antenna. We thought the dinette was real cool when we bought it, now is like you say, uncomfortable. I pull off the table and have comfortable chairs we use instead to watch TV, and I do like the outside one, I use it often. I have fixed most of the rattles, you will find the microwave is not installed right and is making much of the noise. Re attach the overhead mount correctly using big screws and shims, then replace the mounting screws from the microwave into it with hex head bolts so you can tighten it all the way so the unit has no give or shake.
The handling fix was 3 steps, have it aligned, have a track bar installed on the rear and do the CHF all around using Helwig adjustable struts on the front. Make the rig very driveable.
I use the table at the drivers seat often, use the dinette one for jigsaw puzzles..and I use the oven. AS for the invertor, I installed an extra coach battery and bought a 500w invertor for $50, use it rarley but is there when I want it dry camping. There is alot I like and a few things I don't, this is my first MH.

[Metalman]

petef,
It's interesting that you remove the dining room table and sit in chairs in front of the dinet bench seats. We were thinking of removing the long dinet seats and replacing them with a comfortable reclining love seat (We have no need for an extra bed.) I understand that there is heater ductwork under the dinet and who knows what else, but perhaps it could be moved.

We had an inverter in our last MH and it was good for quick microwave bursts, operating the TV, and charging equipment that requires 120-volts. At first we had four 6-volt golf cart batteries but they needed to be replaced too often so I converted the coach electrical system to three 12-volt deep-cycle batteries. They worked very well.

[petef]

I had not really thought of it until the wife mention it.. when you sit at the side near the driver seat you have the window treatment thing in your back..
I have pulled the bottom cover under the pad and not much under it, just the 2 heat supply hoses..and some crap Thor was to lazy to dispose of.. the bulk of the stuff is on the short side. I have seen recliners that can hug a wall.. will be doing some measuring as I peruse this..

[Metalman]

Originally Posted by petef

I had not really thought of it until the wife mention it.. when you sit at the side near the driver seat you have the window treatment thing in your back..
I have pulled the bottom cover under the pad and not much under it, just the 2 heat supply hoses..and some crap Thor was to lazy to dispose of.. the bulk of the stuff is on the short side. I have seen recliners that can hug a wall.. will be doing some measuring as I peruse this..

Please keep up posted on what you find for a recliner. It might have to be set on risers to get it up high enough to comfortably use the table.