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Old 07-21-2017, 02:07 AM   #1
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Axis 24.1 2016+ Tongue Weight?

Can anyone tell me the maximum rated tongue weight for the 2016+ Axis 24.1 as stated on the actual hitch label?

This would be for the hitch with the 8000 lb rating -- not the earlier 5000 lb rated hitch (that has a 500 lb tongue weight).
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Old 07-21-2017, 02:24 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by RacerJohn View Post
Can anyone tell me the maximum rated tongue weight for the 2016+ Axis 24.1 as stated on the actual hitch label?

This would be for the hitch with the 8000 lb rating -- not the earlier 5000 lb rated hitch (that has a 500 lb tongue weight).
It is probably the same hitch that is on my Challenger. 8000 lb hitch 500 lb tongue weight.

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Old 07-21-2017, 03:22 AM   #3
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I took this on an Axis at Palm Beach RV Show in late 2016.
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Old 07-21-2017, 04:25 AM   #4
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My 2016 Axis tongue weight limit is 500lbs. I wanted to carry a 300lb motorcycle, carrier, bicycles and other junk that probably added up to 450lb. I ended adding 2 more hitch receivers off the frame and after 20000 miles its rock solid. Other than drilling into the frame it wasn't that hard of an install.
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Old 07-21-2017, 10:44 AM   #5
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The 500 lb tongue wt is a weak point. I have a 5500 lb open racecar trailer. I had to move car back change a few things to get tongue wt down. Still tows fine.

My Vegas in on e450 platform.
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Old 07-21-2017, 03:28 PM   #6
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Muggs,

I'm in the same "boat", or is that an RV?

I also have an open race car trailer that tows just fine. (I endurance race in the ChumpCar and American Endurance Racing series).

After scaling the RV and trailer at CAT scales, the individual axle and combined weights are both within the rated specifications, but the tongue weight was a bit high. I've also moved the car position to adjust the tongue weight within specifications.

I have the early 2015 24.1 Axis that has the 5000 lb rated hitch (also with a 500 lb tongue weight limit). I was pursuing whether it was possible to upgrade to the higher rated hitch. My questions to Thor was: (a) it possible to upgrade the newer hitch? and (b) what was the new tongue weight specification?

Thor has been useless in answering those simple questions -- both via email (totally ignored/no response) and phone support (couldn't/wouldn't provide a straight answer).

FYI ----> NOTE ABOUT REAR EXTENSION RAILS <-----
I crawled under my (used) RV and carefully examined the hitch support.

I found that the rear extension rails had 5 (of 6) holes not containing bolts where the extension overlaps the main chassis rails. Instead there were six 1" welds in other slots in the extension rails. The Thor drawing specifies six bolts; perhaps the welds are a design change not reflected in the drawing. However, the engineer in me did not trust the welds so I added five 1/2" grade 8 bolts. Thor support also said "yea, we agree that adding those bolts might be a good idea".

Thanks everyone.
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Old 07-21-2017, 03:51 PM   #7
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I think the tongue wt is directly relater to the extensions.Mine had 5 out 6 holes filled. Checking to see what is required to strengthen area for regular 8,000/800 tongue. The e450 will handle, the frame extension will not. I would like to be able to use higher tongue wt. I weighed with and w/o trailer. Impressive how tongue affects front axle. I was 15 lbs below front axle without trailer. Moved all heavy stuff from front to rear area.
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Old 07-21-2017, 03:59 PM   #8
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The tongue weight has nothing to do with the frame rails on the coach. The tongue weight is determine by the manufacturing process of the hitch itself.

A few years ago the hitch used on the Forest River SunSeeker was upgraded from 5000/500 to 7500/750 because the hitch manufacturer changed the process they used welding the hitches.

It was the same hitch using the same metal but assembled with a different process for welding.
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Old 07-21-2017, 04:35 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by dstankov View Post
The tongue weight has nothing to do with the frame rails on the coach. The tongue weight is determine by the manufacturing process of the hitch itself.

A few years ago the hitch used on the Forest River SunSeeker was upgraded from 5000/500 to 7500/750 because the hitch manufacturer changed the process they used welding the hitches.

It was the same hitch using the same metal but assembled with a different process for welding.
You mean bumping up tongue wt capacity only requires a new hitch? I can safely add a 7500/750 hitch?
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Old 07-21-2017, 05:16 PM   #10
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That's risky in my opinion. Just because it applied to one unit doesn't mean it will necessarily apply to you.

The rating is determined by the weakest link, and in the SunSeeker it may have been the receiver and in your case the extension, or something different we don't even know about. What are the odds the extensions were identical, or the rear overhang, body weight distribution, framing for motorhome, etc.
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Old 07-21-2017, 05:56 PM   #11
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Yes, I was told weak link is the frame extension used. There are companies that will renforce area to allow more tongue wt and or higher loading.

I am okay on tongue wt, it would be nice to be able to add more stuff on front of trailer. At present car all the way back, ramps in rear and putting tool boxes in car hatch works fine. Lot of unused real estate on front side of trailer now.

It tows great and remarkably, with 4.56 gear and 16" tires, towing 5,500 is very small hit on MPG. Maybe.5 tops depending on speed. Very happy with the Vegas.
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Old 07-21-2017, 06:12 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Muggs View Post
You mean bumping up tongue wt capacity only requires a new hitch? I can safely add a 7500/750 hitch?
If the rig you are using to tow is capable of the towing weight, yes. In the case of the SunSeeker the GVWR was 14.5K and GCWR was 22K. It was capable of towing 7.5K.

In the case of my Challenger, even though I have a 8K hitch I can only tow 4K. If necessary I could change the hitch to tow a trailer which weighted 3.5K but had a tongue weight of say 600 lbs. That is within my towing capacity and inside the hitch weight limit but outside the hitch tongue weight limit.
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Old 07-21-2017, 07:38 PM   #13
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Dave, with due respect, you're not taking other matters into account, like the bending forces (moments) at the end of the frame and extension.

It's not always just about GVWR and GCWR. If it were, then pickup trucks would be able to safely tow nearly as much on a bumper pull trailer as a 5th wheel or gooseneck, and they can't.

It's just now that Ford has bumper-pull ratings for SuperDuty pickups with much higher weight ratings and much higher tongue weight, but the frame is much stiffer, has a much higher section modulus, and is made of higher-strength steel.

The E-Series frame isn't that strong to start with, and adding an extension, however well built, still moves the receiver much further back behind the rear axle.
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Old 07-21-2017, 08:41 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Chance View Post
Dave, with due respect, you're not taking other matters into account, like the bending forces (moments) at the end of the frame and extension.

It's not always just about GVWR and GCWR. If it were, then pickup trucks would be able to safely tow nearly as much on a bumper pull trailer as a 5th wheel or gooseneck, and they can't.

It's just now that Ford has bumper-pull ratings for SuperDuty pickups with much higher weight ratings and much higher tongue weight, but the frame is much stiffer, has a much higher section modulus, and is made of higher-strength steel.

The E-Series frame isn't that strong to start with, and adding an extension, however well built, still moves the receiver much further back behind the rear axle.
I said if the rig you are using ... You statement fits into that category, the rig being used to tow. Towing a trailer with a tongue weight of 600 lbs will require a hitch change to get a hitch with a tongue weight rating higher than 500 pounds.

Yes there can be issues with frame rails and that fits into the category of the rig, Remember this post:

CAUTION!!: Double Check Trailer Hitch

BigBen's issue fits this thread like a glove. And his issue was not with the weld's or mounting bolts, it was with the metal itself.
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Old 10-26-2018, 10:23 AM   #15
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THOR #13384
Scooter + Carrier Exceeds Tongue Weight

After scouring all the posts, I still have a question...or two. I want to mount a scooter (600#s) and carrier that weighs approx. 80#s onto my 2015 Axis 25.2 with a trailer tongue rating of 500#s. I know mathematically it is over the tongue weight limit (500#s on a hitch rated 8000#), but I haven't seen any solution (s) posted that have proven successful. It still remains a dilemma to me, at least, as to what the consensus is regarding this possibility?

Any and all thoughts/ideas/solutions would be appreciated!
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Old 10-26-2018, 11:03 AM   #16
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Well...at least you know you would be seriously overloading it. Hitch manufacturers say extending your hitch will reduce it's capacity by 50%. The hitch is rated at 4 inches rearward of the outer face plate of the 4" square receiver tube. 100% of what you want to do falls in the category of "hitch weight". You have answered your own question. I would take it to a very qualified welder service (not Bubba with his Harbor Freight welder and orange extension cord in the truck of his Camaro) and see what they can do to beef it up. The weakest link in these hitches seem to be where and how the hitch assembly is mounted to the frame of the MH's.
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Old 10-26-2018, 11:13 AM   #17
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While at the welder guy: Have him weld on 2 more receivers (for a total of 1500#) and then fabricate up the carrier as well.
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