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-   -   Ethanol gas yes or no? (http://www.thorforums.com/forums/f10/ethanol-gas-yes-no-16844.html)

Rcyoung 04-11-2019 06:49 PM

Ethanol gas yes or no?
 
I recently got a 2001 Damon Intruder 349. I keep thinking I saw a reference as to whether one should ( or should not) use ethanol gas in this vehicle. I have looked around but can not find the reference I “think” I saw previously.

Can anyone answer whether ethanol gas can be used in this vehicle???

Bob Denman 04-11-2019 07:12 PM

Ethanol has been in most of our gasoline for years...
But your Intruder is about old enough, to make your question a very good one to ask... :thumb:

EDIT: I just did some digging, and found that engines built after 2001 can take up to 15% ethanol...
Which leaves yours in a questionable position...

It would probably be best if you simply called a Ford Dealer, and asked them about it.

16ACE27 04-11-2019 07:13 PM

Anything built to run on gasoline can and will run, and may be required to run by your State, on up to 10% ethanol.

apr67 04-11-2019 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rcyoung (Post 176956)
I recently got a 2001 Damon Intruder 349. I keep thinking I saw a reference as to whether one should ( or should not) use ethanol gas in this vehicle. I have looked around but can not find the reference I “think” I saw previously.

Can anyone answer whether ethanol gas can be used in this vehicle???

In most places you don't have an option. But it should be just fine. Unless this has been in a barn for 10 years or longer it already likely has e10 in it.

Pete'sMH 04-11-2019 09:28 PM

Ethanol gas yes or no?
 
You can sometimes find non-ethanol gas (called pure gas). Google it to find a list of stations. But I wouldn’t bother for your MH. In addition to being hard to find it’s expensive and usually a higher octane than you need. If your MH has been used in recent history it almost certainly has been running on the normal crappy blend and if it seems to be running ok I wouldn’t worry about it. It won’t hurt the engine but there is a slight risk that a few rubber parts in the fuel system will need to be updated. Might not be a bad idea anyway after 18 years. I used pure gas when I had a home built airplane and I still use it in my yard equipment, my mopeds and my 40 year old motorcycle but it’s probably not necessary. I just happen to have a station nearby.

10scDust 04-13-2019 12:56 PM

A lot of engine literature warnings will say not more than 10 or 15%.

We aren't getting away from using it.
Those that recall the fuel line freeze up, this is mfr's remedy.
Plus it accumulates in the storage tanks naturally.

Condensation is a natural occurance and alcohol will mix with water to rid of it through combustion in the engine.

16ACE27 04-13-2019 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10scDust (Post 177144)
A lot of engine literature warnings will say not more than 10 or 15%.

We aren't getting away from using it.
Those that recall the fuel line freeze up, this is mfr's remedy.
Plus it accumulates in the storage tanks naturally.

Condensation is a natural occurance and alcohol will mix with water to rid of it through combustion in the engine.

Yep, ethanol brings moisture into your fuel system that wouldn't be there otherwise. If you don't use it in a short time, it sits there and corrodes. That's why you have to use real gas in infrequently used engines.

Pete'sMH 04-13-2019 02:34 PM

Or keep the fuel tank totally full when in storage so there is no room for humid air to “breath” in and out of the tank with temp changes. It will minimize condensation. Also use a fuel stabilizer to help hold moisture in suspension. It will be more of a problem in old vehicles with metal gas tanks as the condensed water will settle to the bottom and rust through. Best solution is to go camping a lot!

10scDust 04-14-2019 02:05 AM

I like Pete's suggestion, let's go camping!

axis earl 04-14-2019 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rcyoung (Post 176956)
I recently got a 2001 Damon Intruder 349. I keep thinking I saw a reference as to whether one should ( or should not) use ethanol gas in this vehicle. I have looked around but can not find the reference I “think” I saw previously.

Can anyone answer whether ethanol gas can be used in this vehicle???

Here in SoCal we have a few places that sell what is labeled "E85".... Higher ethanol content than the rest of the normal pump gas which of course has ethanol too. My research has told me that unless your tank and owner's manual states you can use this "E85"... don't use it. My old truck... a real carburetor and the rest.... has an Edelbrock carb that specifically says not to use it because it will ruin the rubber seals. I wouldn't use it in any rig.

99dart 04-14-2019 11:53 AM

I might as well throw my "yes, it's fine" vote in the hat. We had a 1998 Thor 31N class C up until April of 17. It was always feed e10 when we fueled. Always ran perfect.

axis earl 04-14-2019 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rcyoung (Post 176956)
I recently got a 2001 Damon Intruder 349. I keep thinking I saw a reference as to whether one should ( or should not) use ethanol gas in this vehicle. I have looked around but can not find the reference I “think” I saw previously.

Can anyone answer whether ethanol gas can be used in this vehicle???

Again, there is the "normal" ethanol blend then there is the "E85". There are no gas stations in CA that sell non-ethanol mixtures of fuel. You put the E85 in your V10 and don't be surprised if you start having some problems.

Norrirn 04-15-2019 02:40 PM

Your 2001 motorhome is most likely built on a 2000 F53 chassis. You should be able download the owners manual from the web containing all the details you need. More than likely, Ford specs 87 octane gasoline, either straight unleaded or 10% ethanol (E10). Either way you should be just fine and experience no fuel related issues.

Bob Denman 04-15-2019 03:48 PM

I've seen some references to the "E-85" fuel... :o
That stuff is a completely different animal, and should NEVER be put in a vehicle that is not specifically designed to be able to use it... :nonono:

16ACE27 04-15-2019 04:02 PM

Unless you have a "FlexFuel" certified vehicle, then your engine should not be fed E85.

MJC62 04-16-2019 12:21 AM

On the same topic of gasoline. Most mfgrs state in the owners manual that a minimum Octane rating of 87 should be used in their engines. So why do some states eg. (Wyoming and Montana) advertise and sell regular unleaded at 85 octane that the mfgr. says don't burn. The midgrade is 87 octane which in my area is regular. I won't burn 85 octane in anything I drive and am forced to buy the higher priced mid grade. How is it oil companies in these states can sell a product that car mfgrs say not to use? Am I missing something?

Norrirn 04-16-2019 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJC62 (Post 177537)
On the same topic of gasoline. Most mfgrs state in the owners manual that a minimum Octane rating of 87 should be used in their engines. So why do some states eg. (Wyoming and Montana) advertise and sell regular unleaded at 85 octane that the mfgr. says don't burn. The midgrade is 87 octane which in my area is regular. I won't burn 85 octane in anything I drive and am forced to buy the higher priced mid grade. How is it oil companies in these states can sell a product that car mfgrs say not to use? Am I missing something?

Is this a reasonable answer from the web? Higher altitude has lower air density so it actually lowers your compression because the engine draws less air, so you don't need as high octane to stop detonation … more specifically: If the manufacturer of a naturally aspirated engine specifies that 87 octane fuel is required, it is assumed that the engine is running at sea level. As both cars and people go up in elevation, such as New Mexico or Colorado, it becomes more difficult to breathe. The reason for this, is the mass of oxygen in a given volume of air is less.
If you check the barometric pressure in Colorado vs Florida, you will see the pressure is much lower in Colorado due to a lesser mass of oxygen. A modern, electronically fuel injected vehicle will be able to calculate the quantity of oxygen available in the air.
As an example, a two liter engine will displace 2 L of air whether it is in Florida or Colorado. At wide open throttle, the barometric pressure in Florida of around 100 kPa will be inside the intake manifold and available to fill the cylinders. In Colorado, the same engine at wide open throttle will still displace 2 L of air, but as the barometric pressure available to fill the cylinders may only be 85 kPa, it will produce less horsepower due to having less oxygen available in that 2 L of air.
The computer system will deliver the correct amount of fuel for however much oxygen is available, regardless of barometric pressure. Unfortunately, as the quantity of oxygen and fuel are reduced with higher elevations, the engine will make less power. (Many piston aircraft engines are turbocharged so as to maintain sea level horsepower at elevation, not to necessarily make more horsepower.) An engineer would say that the peak cylinder pressure is less at altitude than at sea level. As the cylinder pressure is less, the speed of combustion is slower. The speed of combustion is what drives the octane requirements of an engine. (If the speed of combustion is too fast, the cylinder pressure will rise too quickly causing the unburnt fuel to quickly burn from the high temperatures, as a diesel engine would do, instead of the typical method from the spark plug and radiating out to the cylinder wall.) This is the reason 85 octane fuel is what's typical in much of Colorado. So, as engines make less horsepower due to the lower air pressure at high altitude, the octane requirement will go down. As higher octane fuel is more costly to manufacturer and the engine does not require it, it is not typically found at higher elevations.
All of the above was from the perspective of taking an 87 octane vehicle up into the mountains, but what happens if you fill up your car with 85 octane fuel and drive it back to a lower elevation? As the elevation goes down the air pressure goes up and the engine can once again produce it's rated power. This additional power, compared to how it was running at altitude, will drive the octane requirements back to 87. If you're running an 87 octane engine hard, at sea level, with 85 octane fuel, it is possible to damage the engine. Thankfully, most modern engines have a very good sensor for detecting if the engine combustion process is poor due to having low octane fuel. This device, called a knock sensor, will tell the computer that the engine is not running as it should and adjustments will be made to stop the poor combustion. In so doing, you can expect the efficiency of the engine to go down and the fuel consumption to go up.
If, on the other hand, you fill up with 85 octane fuel and drive it back down the side of the mountain, but your engine is of an older design, it is possible to damage the engine due to poor combustion quality.
By the way, poor combustion quality is what used to be known a few years ago in America as detonation, pre-ignition, knocking, pinging, and as the British would say, pinking. Today, if the fuel does not burn properly in the cylinder for any reason, it is called poor combustion.

I didn't know that!

MJC62 04-16-2019 01:45 AM

:thumb:Thanks for the info Norrin. A mechanic at a repair shop in West Yellowstone told me something similar. He pointed out as you stated if you fill up at 6,500 ft. then head down to lower elevation the engine may develop spark knock when under load. So as the engine mfgrs say to run their product at minimum 87 octane I do not want to assume the risk of potentially damaging an engine to save .20 a gallon on gas. Running a vehicle with less than the mfgrs suggested octane rating could potentially void the warranty. Though I was surprised by the amount of people filling with the 85.

axis earl 04-16-2019 03:09 AM

E85
 
I was the culprit that mentioned this E85 issue. It is out there and sometimes it will specifically say that it is branded differently than the gas station you pulled into. Yes, it is quite clear that only "FlexFuel" marked vehicles should use this fuel and that leaves out RVs. Not that it is gospel but last year I drove a friends items in a Ford F650 UHaul to her new home in Nevada from Tennessee. There was a big sticker on the fuel tank (gasser) that said NO E85.

RadioRanger 04-16-2019 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rcyoung (Post 176956)
I recently got a 2001 Damon Intruder 349. I keep thinking I saw a reference as to whether one should ( or should not) use ethanol gas in this vehicle. I have looked around but can not find the reference I “think” I saw previously.

Can anyone answer whether ethanol gas can be used in this vehicle???

As Bob said, E-15 can be used on a vehicle 2001 or later. If your MH model is 2001, it is pretty likely that the chassis is a 2000. Check the VIN to be sure of the model year.


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