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-   -   2016 Axis/Vegas 24.1 Model Changes (http://www.thorforums.com/forums/f17/2016-axis-vegas-24-1-model-changes-4054.html)

Eratosthenes 05-30-2016 05:23 PM

2016 Axis/Vegas 24.1 Model Changes
 
My wife and I have seen a 2014, 2016, and a new 2017 models of the Vegas 24.1. We really like the floor plan, but my wife abhors the 2014 bathroom door design. Now I have heard people saying on this forum that there were some changes in the middle of the 2015 model year and I was wondering did that include the bathroom door?

You see a salesperson at Camping World Houston mentioned two 2015 24.1s that they could have transferred to Houston for us to buy. Looking at the pictures and online floorplans it looks like one has the new doors and the other does not:

With New Doors?: 2015 Thor VEGAS 24.1, Holiday FL - - RVtrader.com

With Old Crappy Doors: 2015 Thor VEGAS 24.1, Columbia SC - - RVtrader.com

This got me thinking that there are other undesirable features on the 2014/2015 models that don’t exist in the 2016+ models and others that might still persist today, but the sales people are not keen to point out the “hidden features.” So here is a little list that I compiled. Feel free to join it with your comments.


Differences between the 2014/15 Axis/Vegas and the 2016 models:

Bathroom door design:
2014 – Crappy
2015 – Crappy / some improved?
2016 – Improved

Windshield Design:
2014 – Big with cracks
2015 – Big with cracks / Smaller w/o cracks
2016 – Smaller w/o cracks

Shower Rod Design:
2014 – Smaller
2015 – Smaller / ???
2016 – Bigger

Chassis Battery Access (see Ed Felker’s pictures in his definitive users’ guide)
2014 – WTF???*
2015 – WTF??? / ???
2016 – Anybody know if they fixed this “hidden feature?”

*Pardon my French, but how else can you describe this??

This is a starting list. Anybody else have any other ideas to include here?

JamieGeek 05-30-2016 07:19 PM

Well first of all I wouldn't call the 2014 bathroom doors "crappy design" we like the design--the bathroom door design is one of the reasons we bought our 24.1. I could go without the "pin" that holds it open and closed, however. I do like how the newer doors use magnets to hold them open and closed.

Speaking of the bathroom: at some point between/during 2014 and 2015 they also changed the shower to have separate controls (our shower comes off the bathroom sink).

The ARC shower curtain rod is an easy retrofit if you get an early one without it. I put one in and having just used it this past weekend its worth the mod.

In addition: I don't think many of the 2014 front window's cracked; that started happening with the 2015 models.

I would suspect that the ability to easily swap out the chassis battery started with the swap to the E-450 chassis (which also started in the 2015/2016 time frame).

There is also a switch to a 6-speed transmission in there at some point.

bevedfelker 05-30-2016 07:59 PM

I've looked under the hood of both late 2016 and the new 2017 24.1s and they have lowered the battery mount so that you can change the battery from the front instead of through the top of the dash like the 2014-15. I can just hear the engineer that did the design for the 2015, "Hey Harry I have a great idea -- let's make it so that to change the chassis battery you have to cut a hole in the top of the dash." What were they thinking?!?!? And by the way -- if you plan on changing your own oil good luck getting the oil cap off and pouring the oil in the 2014-15. It's as bad as trying to change the battery.

Like Jamie, I like the design of the bathroom door in the 2014-15. It really does provide a good changing area. I don't like the double door system like it is in the new one. The left hand door makes no sense to me at all. Why didn't they just make it a wall and be done with it. You do have to take care with the latches and pins on the double swinging door to keep from having problems or breaking something -- but my wife and I really like the old design.

The shower -- well what can you say? 27" X 27" is a bit Spartan. The new ARC rod though not increasing footprint does get the curtain out away from your body so it doesn't stick to you every time you move. Installing the ARC is on my list of future upgrades.

We like the older big windshield. I am one of the 2015 owners that suffered a stress crack. Thor replaced it under warranty. Took 3 weeks for the windshield to come from the factory to my dealer. My dealer called me when the windshield came in. The following Thursday their glass subcontractor was scheduled in and my dealer told me to drop the coach off in the AM of that morning. Windshield was changed and I picked the coach up the following day. The subcontractor explained to me how they really have to pay attention and get the fit perfect putting the windshield in so that uneven or asymmetrical stress does not occur to the windshield. The newer small window probably will not face the same stress crack proneness as the larger old one did.

Cosmo 05-30-2016 08:20 PM

One more thing to consider is the switch to the E450 chassis (mid 2016) - this allows an added ~2000 lb of capacity. Probably makes no difference for most folks, but my toys are heavy (motorcycle, SUPs, and kitesurfing gear) and I may have been close to the limit on the E350.

Eratosthenes 05-31-2016 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamieGeek (Post 35903)
Well first of all I wouldn't call the 2014 bathroom doors "crappy design" we like the design--the bathroom door design is one of the reasons we bought our 24.1. I could go without the "pin" that holds it open and closed, however. I do like how the newer doors use magnets to hold them open and closed.

Jamie and Ed,

I apologize for calling the 2014/15 Bathroom door design crappy. I have only heard and read about it. People have described it to me and it is difficult for me to fully understand the door without seeing one intact. My wife and I saw a 2014 Vegas on Saturday, but the owners had taken the bathroom doors out of the MH and put up a curtain instead. Who knows ... my wife might love it for all we know.

Thank you for all the rest of your answers. We are thinking about buying an RV later on this year.

Chance 05-31-2016 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eratosthenes (Post 36003)
Jamie and Ed,

I apologize for calling the 2014/15 Bathroom door design crappy. I have only heard and read about it. People have described it to me and it is difficult for me to fully understand the door without seeing one intact. My wife and I saw a 2014 Vegas on Saturday, but the owners had taken the bathroom doors out of the MH and put up a curtain instead. Who knows ... my wife might love it for all we know.

Thank you for all the rest of your answers. We are thinking about buying an RV later on this year.

Sounds like the motorhome at PPL in Houston. :)

I personally wouldn't want that door design -- it's too heavy, bulky, and complicated for a door. If you look at it as a movable wall then it's OK I guess.

I mentioned before on a different thread, at the Houston RV Show when Axis/Vegas first came out, the door on one motorhome didn't last an hour or so before a show visitor broke it. That doesn't mean it can't work, but it's not as intuitive as a standard everyday hinged door people know how to operate. It certainly doesn't fall under the KISS principle. But then again, neither are a lot of other design features on modern RVs which is part of why so many new owners keep having problems.

JamieGeek 05-31-2016 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chance
I mentioned before on a different thread, at the Houston RV Show when Axis/Vegas first came out, the door on one motorhome didn't last an hour or so before a show visitor broke it. That doesn't mean it can't work, but it's not as intuitive as a standard everyday hinged door people know how to operate. It certainly doesn't fall under the KISS principle. But then again, neither are a lot of other design features on modern RVs which is part of why so many new owners keep having problems.

Our unit had been shown at least once and the bathroom door was broken. Dealer swapped out a new door for us.

When we first saw an Axis at a show you could see people just grabbing the handle and pulling..without looking to see how it worked first (of course its a door you'd expect it to work like a door).

Over the past two years we've had very few issues with the door (the screws were pulling out of the little carrier at the top but I fixed that with some glue). I can see, however, that with continued use the pin may stop adequately holding the door open/closed (especially closed while on the road) and have started to take measures to fix/modify that. To start with I added a magnetic drawer latch to the closed position:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...hroomlatch.jpg
That has really helped keeping the door from flying open while on the road. Been thinking about adding one to the fully open position as well--then the pin isn't needed at all. (Looking for stronger magnets though as, like you mention, the door assembly is heavy.)

DocMike 05-31-2016 01:39 PM

Ed,

Search rare earth magnets. I got a set (2) of 1" round drawer magnets with 40 pound pull, more details are on the home computer if you need it.

Doc

Larry 05-31-2016 02:44 PM

We've really enjoyed our 2015 Axis 24.1 since we bought it new almost 2 years ago. The folding bathroom door was one of the features that attracted us to it and hasn't given us any trouble whatsoever.

The windshield had a scratch in it and was noticed during our PDI and was taken care of by the dealer. Haven't had any trouble with cracking on it.

Yes, the chassis battery is difficult to get to and probably will be a PIA when its time to change it out but will cross that bridge when I come to it. I've installed the Quick-Fill on the chassis and coach batteries which makes it really simple to add water. I also have the Harris batteries and haven't experienced any problems with them either. They always charge up fine.

The one thing I don't like is the small shower, but depending on how one positions the body, it can be dealt with. My wife doesn't seem to mind it as much as me but she's nowhere near my size. I'll usually prefer to use the campground shower facilities depending on the distance and the weather. They're kept clean at most campgrounds where we stay.

Guess we've been quite lucky in comparison to others who have purchased similar units. So happy we bought the Axis when we did.

Good luck with your search.

Oneilkeys 05-31-2016 03:16 PM

For my impressions of the differences from my early model 2014 Vegas 24.1 and my new 2026 Axis 24.1 see my earlier thread.
http://www.thorforums.com/forums/f17...86.html?highli

Eratosthenes 05-31-2016 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bevedfelker (Post 35911)
Like Jamie, I like the design of the bathroom door in the 2014-15. It really does provide a good changing area. I don't like the double door system like it is in the new one. The left hand door makes no sense to me at all. Why didn't they just make it a wall and be done with it.

Well my wife really loves the two double door feature because when they open up in makes for a large privacy area for changing. She loves the full length mirror in the inside of one of the two doors. I don't know how the earlier (non-crappy) doors would accomplish this, but maybe we will find one to look at. I figure she might like it if the price is right!:D

Thank you!

JamieGeek 05-31-2016 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eratosthenes
Well my wife really loves the two double door feature because when they open up in makes for a large privacy area for changing. She loves the full length mirror in the inside of one of the two doors. I don't know how the earlier (non-crappy) doors would accomplish this, but maybe we will find one to look at. I figure she might like it if the price is right!

The earlier design opens up to a larger area: essentially turning the entire bedroom/bathroom into the changing area and also has a full-length mirror--probably in the same place on the forward door/panel.

Eratosthenes 05-31-2016 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chance (Post 36004)
Sounds like the motorhome at PPL in Houston. :)

It is indeed the one at PPL. They are asking $47,995 for it.

Since I am not handy, I wonder if one of the dealerships could simply buy and install the old door assembly (or better yet the new door assembly).

I figure that if we would buy this one we would be getting $30,000 off of brand new, I could afford to pay $5,000 in mods and still be ahead financially!

Any thoughts on this?

Thank you!

Oneilkeys 05-31-2016 06:49 PM

You are getting about $20k off of new. At the Tampa show a Vegas 24.1 was offered at $67.9k. How many miles does the PPL have on it and does it have the new 6 Spd transmission. If it is a 2015, it will not, if it is a 2016 it might. Having driven both, I think the 6 Spd is a major upgrade. The new bathroom doors and shower curtain are also major improvements, but others in this forum have added the shower. The smaller windshield is also a plus because of the many reported cracks in the larger windshield. If the previous owner had some RV skills and maintained the coach, it might be better than new in some aspects. If they added stability upgrades or other improvements that are important to you, that would be another plus. But you need to be sure, because I bet PPL will give you a 90 day warrantee if any. At least with the new one, you have a year to try and get things fixed in the coach. For comparison purposes, I traded in a 2014 Vegas,with 25,000 miles on it, and $18k (not including taxes) for a 2016 Axis. I thought it was well worth it and I have been much more impressed with the quality control of the 2016 over the 2014. Not everyone has been as lucky, however.

JamieGeek 05-31-2016 07:13 PM

Is it this one? 2014 Vegas 24.1 for Sale - A717 - PPL Motor Homes

You can clearly see the curtain in the photos there. They report 6916 miles on that page..a pretty low mile Vegas unit. I'd suspect the 2014 wouldn't have the windshield crack like later ones did (ask if it has been replaced?) You would want to ask if the windshield washer motor was replaced, and also ask if the fuel pump on the generator has been replaced.

A 2014 would also have the Jensen 212 radio--see if that has been replaced and/or upgraded.

Also check the shifter cable: Make sure it isn't rubbing against the exhaust manifold.

Personally I wouldn't get it: It has the oven. Not that there is anything wrong with the oven but you do get some large drawers there when you eliminate the oven and get the convection/microwave combo.

Chance 05-31-2016 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eratosthenes (Post 36026)
It is indeed the one at PPL. They are asking $47,995 for it.

Since I am not handy, I wonder if one of the dealerships could simply buy and install the old door assembly (or better yet the new door assembly).

I figure that if we would buy this one we would be getting $30,000 off of brand new, I could afford to pay $5,000 in mods and still be ahead financially!

Any thoughts on this?

Thank you!

Savings may not be quite $30K in today's dollars, and if you factor the value of the unit itself being lower in 3 to 5 years (or however long you plan to keep it), the out-of-pocket cost difference for ownership is even less. If you keep vehicles for long periods until fully depreciated then the savings are greatest.

Regarding the door, I'm sure with enough money it can be restored to original design/condition.

We briefly thought about looking at that motorhome and perhaps making an offer, but only because we want a dinette and my wife shot down the idea of a major modification to a brand new motorhome. I thought that if the motorhome was a couple of years old, she'd be OK with it.

My thought was of buying or building new-style doors, and replacing couch with dinette. I even kicked around the idea (don't laugh :)) of remodeling the bathroom. That would be a huge project by comparison.

Because of the old-style windshield, and small bathroom, we decided to not even look at it. As I recall it's been listed twice, the second time at lower cost. We want new but it has to be what we really want. Otherwise we'll look at used as an interim motorhome until something right comes along.

Good luck.

Eratosthenes 05-31-2016 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamieGeek (Post 36035)
Is it this one? 2014 Vegas 24.1 for Sale - A717 - PPL Motor Homes

... snip"

Personally I wouldn't get it: It has the oven. Not that there is anything wrong with the oven but you do get some large drawers there when you eliminate the oven and get the convection/microwave combo.

JamieGeek,

Yup that is the one we looked at. I also did not like the oven, I would rather have the drawers.



Everybody else who commented on the 2014 at PPL,

My wife and I agree with most of what you say. I think we will save our money for a 2016, or just the right 2015.

Thank you all for your input!

bevedfelker 05-31-2016 09:47 PM

1 Attachment(s)
For those who haven't seen the older bathroom double fold doors here's a drawing I made. The figure on the left is with the doors closed. There is a long piano hinge on the right side of the right door to the bathroom wall on the living room side. There is also a long piano hinge connecting the left door to the right door. There is a pin at the top of the door engaging a latch mounted to the ceiling

The figure on the right shows the doors open. You press down on the door latch and disengage the plastic pin connecting to the latch in the ceiling. The right door (dark green) swings counter clockwise. The left door (light green) swings clockwise. There is another ceiling latch to hold the doors open as shown. When open the right door close off the hallway from the living room to the bedroom. The left hand door sits flush against the refrigerator door. The doors are designed so that when they are fully open you are able to open the closet door.

You can see how the open doors allows the entire hallway area that was in front of the closed bathroom doors to become a dressing area. In addition the right hand door (dark green) has a full length mirror on it.

My wife and I really like the design. The weakness was the plastic pin and latch at the top. You have to be careful with it so you don't break the pin. We always depress the latch fully when opening and closing the door so that the pin doesn't snap in and out of the latches at the ceiling.

Eratosthenes 06-01-2016 12:48 AM

So what happens when you need to use the refrigerator while you're changing clothes? [emoji6]

But seriously, I can see why my wife might like this design ... even though it is more fiddly then the new design.

Thanks for the drawings and the explanation!

JamieGeek 06-01-2016 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eratosthenes
So what happens when you need to use the refrigerator while you're changing clothes?

The thirsty person waits...or grabs something before someone jumps into the shower.

Note that the same restriction applies to the new design: with the front bathroom door "open" the refer is not available to the people in the main salon.


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