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Old 10-02-2020, 05:43 PM   #1
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Axis/Vegas Lithium Swap, Who has done it?

My wife and I picked up a 2019 Axis 25.6 in July and love the Floorplan and size of our rig.

We are looking for small improvements we can make and the batteries seem like a perfect place to start. We have the original 2 12v batteries (flooded) and the factory solar controller and converter.

Has anyone swapped in Lithium or AGM batteries? I am looking for feedback on fitment of the batteries, how much capacity you were able to fit into the compartment and other similar topics.

I have been searching this and other forums for answers, but keep striking out.

Thanks in advance!
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Old 10-02-2020, 09:01 PM   #2
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Welcome to the forum! I'm sure someone will speak up to answer your question.
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Old 10-02-2020, 09:15 PM   #3
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Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryS View Post
Welcome to the forum! I'm sure someone will speak up to answer your question.
Thank you for the welcome! I am just now noticing I haven't made an intro post to this forum yet. I'll go do that tonight!
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Old 10-09-2020, 06:08 PM   #4
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Welcome to the family...
I asked a similar question of my BIL who is a guru with this stuff.
Unless your coach is equipped with a Lithium compatible charge controller, you’d need to either buy batteries with built in BCMs to control the rate of charge, or have an external system installed. Lithium batteries are really great batteries that produce gobs more power for their weight than are flooded lead-acid batteries - but they require special preparation for their use or they can be a real fire hazard.
My current deep cycle batteries are holding their own for now, so I haven’t taken any further action.
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Old 10-09-2020, 07:47 PM   #5
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I installed TWO 6 volt AGM's about 2 years ago in my Axis. They work great. Zero maintenance and the fit perfectly under my steps..... must better then the OEM setup.

I think in a couple of years the Lithiums will come done down in price where it will make more sense to me.
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2017 Axis / 25.4: Big Foot Levelers, Aims 1200 Watt inverter, Ceramic Window Tint, Full River AGM 6V batteries, Front Hellwig Sway bar / Rear Track Arm, Safe T Plus Steering Stabilizer, PD 4655 converter, Hard Wired Surge Guard, WEboost + WiFi Ranger, LED Headlights/Driving lights, TPMS, Surge tank, Tornado flush, Viair Compressor
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Old 10-09-2020, 08:13 PM   #6
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More and more lithium replacement companies are showing up lately:

These are all US makers of lithium ion phosphate batteries with internal BMS

Renogy https://www.renogy.com/

Battleborn https://battlebornbatteries.com/

Dakota Lithium https://dakotalithium.com/

VPW https://vpwllc.com/
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Old 10-09-2020, 08:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Long & Winding road View Post
I installed TWO 6 volt AGM's about 2 years ago in my Axis. They work great. Zero maintenance and the fit perfectly under my steps..... must better then the OEM setup.
Did those two 6V AGMs meet Group GC2 dimensional specs. That would be tough to fit in under the Axis entry step compartment. Trojan says their GC2s are 10.3"L x 7.11"W x 11.07"H. The height will be the killer since I recently measured only 10" height on an Axis.

David
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Old 10-10-2020, 01:32 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidEM View Post
Did those two 6V AGMs meet Group GC2 dimensional specs. That would be tough to fit in under the Axis entry step compartment. Trojan says their GC2s are 10.3"L x 7.11"W x 11.07"H. The height will be the killer since I recently measured only 10" height on an Axis.

David
Yes they did. I had to search online (like you are) to find the correct size. At first I was going to go with just a Deep Cycle Lead acid but when I notice the AGM were shorter I decided that was the way to go.

Then I came accross Full River Batteries and I like what I saw. My local Battery Depot ordered two of them for me and when I picked them up I aksed for a discount and they gave me 10% off. Full price was around $250 each but I think they are worth it.

They are very heavy (73 # each according my my scale.... the OEM were only 46 # each). But you can position yourself directly over the hole and wiggle in (They scrap the sides when installing but fit perfectly once in with zero mods).

I love them. Much more reserve over OEM.

I dont have to charge my RV anymore (when in storage) but I try to drive her once a month and exercise the generator. I think I could go 2 or 3 month off charge and still be ABOVE 60% (esp with inside storage and mild climate like I have).
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2017 Axis / 25.4: Big Foot Levelers, Aims 1200 Watt inverter, Ceramic Window Tint, Full River AGM 6V batteries, Front Hellwig Sway bar / Rear Track Arm, Safe T Plus Steering Stabilizer, PD 4655 converter, Hard Wired Surge Guard, WEboost + WiFi Ranger, LED Headlights/Driving lights, TPMS, Surge tank, Tornado flush, Viair Compressor
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Old 10-10-2020, 01:45 PM   #9
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You can see my disconnect bolted on the battery but I only used it once (it erased my radio settings so I never used it again but its nice to have the option IMO).

So my great results are with the batteries connect all the time, i just use Factory the disconnect by the door.
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2017 Axis / 25.4: Big Foot Levelers, Aims 1200 Watt inverter, Ceramic Window Tint, Full River AGM 6V batteries, Front Hellwig Sway bar / Rear Track Arm, Safe T Plus Steering Stabilizer, PD 4655 converter, Hard Wired Surge Guard, WEboost + WiFi Ranger, LED Headlights/Driving lights, TPMS, Surge tank, Tornado flush, Viair Compressor
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Old 10-10-2020, 01:58 PM   #10
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Ah, I finally figured out the dimension discrepency. I looked the DC 220-6 battery up on Fullriver's website and it says it is a Group 27 battery and its height is 8.9". Finally makes sense.

David
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Old 10-10-2020, 02:15 PM   #11
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Good, Im glad it helped. Until the Lithium prices drop down to like $399 maybe $450 price range..... IMO TWO 6 v AGM's are the way to go.
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2017 Axis / 25.4: Big Foot Levelers, Aims 1200 Watt inverter, Ceramic Window Tint, Full River AGM 6V batteries, Front Hellwig Sway bar / Rear Track Arm, Safe T Plus Steering Stabilizer, PD 4655 converter, Hard Wired Surge Guard, WEboost + WiFi Ranger, LED Headlights/Driving lights, TPMS, Surge tank, Tornado flush, Viair Compressor
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Old 10-14-2020, 07:27 PM   #12
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I have a 2020 Vegas 27.7 and changed out the 2 wet batteries under the steps. Here's a list of what I installed. The batteries are slightly longer than the wets but there was plenty of room. One of the battery leads can only be accessed if one battery is removed but that's not an issue.

2 Battleborn lithium batteries 12V 100ah BB10012
225 amp battery isolation manager LiBIM225 - #00-10041-260
Victron BAM0307 120000 batter monitor with Bluetooth BMV 712
2 Battery straps
2 Battery posts
WFCO WF-8950L2-MBA
Some battery cables as some distances between posts and breakers changed.

You don't need to install the Victron BMV but it's a great battery monitor. It does allow you to isolate equipment and measure amperage, and to identify the ghost load when the battery is supposed to be off.

The lithium wfco charger brings the lithiums to about 14.4 V, otherwise you lose about 10% of the lithium capacity with the original wfco. At the higher voltage the internal lithium controller will balance the cells automatically which is healthy for battery output and life. I replaced the charger portion of the wfco electrical panel/converter system with a simple conversion - 4 or 6 screws and 6 or 8 so wires disconnected/connected. I also replaced the battery isolation manager (BIM) under the hood to lithium, otherwise the engine alternator will not distribute charge properly between the chassis and house batteries. Battleborn gave me some discounts over the phone. Total cost of all components was about 2400. Increased amp hour usable capacity from about 80 (if the original batteries were replaced by the dealer) to about 200.
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Old 10-14-2020, 07:39 PM   #13
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This is more than you may want, but my lithium & solar system has been working perfectly for me for the last 2+ years in my 2018 Axis 24.1. It can be seen at https://youtu.be/x_PjAGheBnM
Since we always boondock at 30 ski resorts in the winter (w/ Ikon ski passes) & dirtbike in the summer, we never hook up to shore power. We donít have to start the generator to make coffee & microwave breakfast in the morning. We never run out of power for our heated blankets overnight. We can even run the AC without the genny for about an hour with the soft start upgrade. Lithiums do not like freezing weather, so this is all under the bed and behind insulation from the back & sides. I removed the converter because the lithiums stay charged with the solar panels most of the time. Otherwise, the generator can charge the lithiums very quickly. I like that I can check the solar & battery stats & history with the Victron iphone app. Lithiums are relatively light batteries & can go down to almost zero percent charge without damaging them.
$6,236 total cost from two years ago:
Victron Multiplus 12/2000/80-50 - $1,150
Smartsolar 100/30 - $226
Monitors: battery, MPPT, Inverter - $500
breakers & wire & lugs - $200
four HQST 100w Mono panels - $460
four 100Ah BattleBorn lithium batteries - $3,700
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Old 10-14-2020, 10:10 PM   #14
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Model: Palazzo 36.1
State: Texas
Posts: 50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaurbanelli@aol.com View Post

The lithium wfco charger brings the lithiums to about 14.4 V, otherwise you lose about 10% of the lithium capacity with the original wfco.
On our Palazzo the built in charger doesn't have a Lithium battery profile so it doesn't quite make the 14.4V the Lithiums can charge to not even with manual setup but.... our solar setup does so I just charge to the limit of the built in charger and let the solar do the rest.
One thing I found out was not charging the Lithiums to full capacity every time actually adds to your limit of charge cycles.... assuming you can afford to do without that 10%

Since we don't boon dock a whole lot I just live with the loss.
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Old 10-14-2020, 10:13 PM   #15
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Model: Travato
State: British Columbia
Posts: 1
THOR #18660
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaurbanelli@aol.com View Post
I have a 2020 Vegas 27.7 and changed out the 2 wet batteries under the steps. Here's a list of what I installed. The batteries are slightly longer than the wets but there was plenty of room. One of the battery leads can only be accessed if one battery is removed but that's not an issue.

2 Battleborn lithium batteries 12V 100ah BB10012
225 amp battery isolation manager LiBIM225 - #00-10041-260
Victron BAM0307 120000 batter monitor with Bluetooth BMV 712
2 Battery straps
2 Battery posts
WFCO WF-8950L2-MBA
Some battery cables as some distances between posts and breakers changed.

You don't need to install the Victron BMV but it's a great battery monitor. It does allow you to isolate equipment and measure amperage, and to identify the ghost load when the battery is supposed to be off.

The lithium wfco charger brings the lithiums to about 14.4 V, otherwise you lose about 10% of the lithium capacity with the original wfco. At the higher voltage the internal lithium controller will balance the cells automatically which is healthy for battery output and life. I replaced the charger portion of the wfco electrical panel/converter system with a simple conversion - 4 or 6 screws and 6 or 8 so wires disconnected/connected. I also replaced the battery isolation manager (BIM) under the hood to lithium, otherwise the engine alternator will not distribute charge properly between the chassis and house batteries. Battleborn gave me some discounts over the phone. Total cost of all components was about 2400. Increased amp hour usable capacity from about 80 (if the original batteries were replaced by the dealer) to about 200.
You used two lithium batteries 12V *100ah*, can one go for one lithium battery 12V *200ah*
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Old 10-17-2020, 08:33 AM   #16
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I kind of doubt a single 200 ah will fit but it is worth checking.
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