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Old 11-22-2022, 04:37 PM   #41
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Breaking my golden rule of not reading through the entire thread before commenting (this may have already been mentioned), GPS uses satellites which will always be there...Waze (or any cell phone based app) uses cell service which can drop out when you need it most. And, GPS doesnt require access to all your personal data and location (far away from home). Climbing the longest rope makes you stronger.

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Old 11-23-2022, 01:24 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton View Post
Breaking my golden rule of not reading through the entire thread before commenting (this may have already been mentioned), GPS uses satellites which will always be there...Waze (or any cell phone based app) uses cell service which can drop out when you need it most. And, GPS doesnt require access to all your personal data and location (far away from home). Climbing the longest rope makes you stronger.
Any GPS routing APP worth its salt will ask if you want to download offline maps for your route before it starts navigating. I know Google Maps does this, the RV Safe GPS does, Copilot does. I don't use Waze enough to know if that is an option.
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Old 11-23-2022, 03:31 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton View Post
Breaking my golden rule of not reading through the entire thread before commenting (this may have already been mentioned), GPS uses satellites which will always be there...Waze (or any cell phone based app) uses cell service which can drop out when you need it most. And, GPS doesnt require access to all your personal data and location (far away from home). Climbing the longest rope makes you stronger.
I don't believe Waze requires personal data or location. You have options to turn on/off any permissions you like. But I get your point that a phone apps must use the phone locations based on cellular towers to know where you are where a true GPS uses satellites.

While I had not used my Garmin in 5 years or so; if I recall my Garmins could drop out on occasion without notice because I believe it has to be locked on 3 satellites to calculate location.

But if the question is which provides the best chance for connectivity in the most places, Satelite beat Cellular hands down. That would be like comparing Starlink to T - Mobile. "Quality is "fitness for use" You don't need the best technology, modern day navigational systems bring information beyond just mere directions.
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Old 11-23-2022, 03:42 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by 16ACE27 View Post
Any GPS routing APP worth its salt will ask if you want to download offline maps for your route before it starts navigating. I know Google Maps does this, the RV Safe GPS does, Copilot does. I don't use Waze enough to know if that is an option.
Ace, this one made me think. I don't know either but here is what I do know or believe.

I don't ever recall upgrading my Waze app; so it must do it by itself on it's own. Likewise, I have never had to download a map for my Waze app. It must have a map though, because when I turn off the phone services, it still works showing me the roads. But it is telling me it is Searching for the Network. So I am not sure how it does it or knows. Tomorrow, when I drive to work, I will allow Waze to create a drive to my office and then put my phone in Airplane mode before leaving the house. I will watch what it does. My guess is that it will NOT give me directions turn by turn, but will track the roads that I drive on the path highlighted?

I am very surprised that someone that has Apple Play or Android Auto has not chimed in yet? It is in my Wife's car but I never use, because I don't connect my phone to her system

Update: There is some irony here. Given how long I have been using Waze; I have to plan to turn my phone's service off to conduct this test tomorrow to verify what it will do without service.
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Old 11-23-2022, 03:57 AM   #45
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In prepping for evaluating features of 890 versus Waze; I had a few questions about my RV 890 that I got answers for.

1. The battery can last about 1 1/2 hrs
2. The 890 will not charge unless it is connected to it's powered mount. It is only designed to charge via connections on the back w/magnet; the USB connector is not wired to charge.
3. If not connected to a powered mount, the screen will go black in 15 secs to 30 min based on you set it up. When it goes black, you must turn the on/off on again, touching screen does not bring it out of sleep.
4. The 890 screen does not rotate 360 degrees, only 90 or 180
5. There is no Microphone on keyboard to convert speech to text, but there is a "Ask Garmin" where you can communicate with unit without typing. A little tricky to use though.
6. Garmin acknowledge the Garmin Drive app can be erratic. Several times I had it connected based on my phone, but the Garmin did not update although it saw the phone
7. The Garmin cannot connect to bluetooth ear pods or similar
8. Garmin acknowledges windshield mount can't be used on RV windshields. They recommended a $70 friction mount https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...KIKX0DER&psc=1
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Old 11-23-2022, 04:06 AM   #46
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There are some really good reasons to use a dedicated GPS like Garmin. But the use of cellular or satellite may be no different. Newer phones - the last couple of years - have built in GPS that uses the same satellites that Garmin uses. I drive from the Yukon to the lower 48 almost every year. There's a 400 mile stretch of highway where there's no cell service at all. But if I've downloaded the maps, Google Maps knows precisely where I am and how many more miles before my next designated stop. I think you must be within cell service to set a designated stop. But that's it.
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Old 11-23-2022, 11:15 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by dkoldman View Post
I don't believe Waze requires personal data or location. You have options to turn on/off any permissions you like. But I get your point that a phone apps must use the phone locations based on cellular towers to know where you are where a true GPS uses satellites.

While I had not used my Garmin in 5 years or so; if I recall my Garmins could drop out on occasion without notice because I believe it has to be locked on 3 satellites to calculate location.

But if the question is which provides the best chance for connectivity in the most places, Satelite beat Cellular hands down. That would be like comparing Starlink to T - Mobile. "Quality is "fitness for use" You don't need the best technology, modern day navigational systems bring information beyond just mere directions.
Actually your cellphone has a GPS that uses the same satellites a standalone GPS does. That is why you only need a cell tower connection to download the map and route. Once the route is downloaded the phone will navigate using satellites and if you loose cell tower connection it will be transparent as far as the navigation is concerned. If you decided to make a change in the route and do not have cell service then you are screwed.
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Old 11-23-2022, 04:40 PM   #48
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There are some really good reasons to use a dedicated GPS like Garmin. But the use of cellular or satellite may be no different. Newer phones - the last couple of years - have built in GPS that uses the same satellites that Garmin uses. I drive from the Yukon to the lower 48 almost every year. There's a 400 mile stretch of highway where there's no cell service at all. But if I've downloaded the maps, Google Maps knows precisely where I am and how many more miles before my next designated stop. I think you must be within cell service to set a designated stop. But that's it.
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Actually your cellphone has a GPS that uses the same satellites a standalone GPS does. That is why you only need a cell tower connection to download the map and route. Once the route is downloaded the phone will navigate using satellites and if you loose cell tower connection it will be transparent as far as the navigation is concerned. If you decided to make a change in the route and do not have cell service then you are screwed.


Both of you are correct, two other favorable advantages of Waze over Google Maps I observed during my testing.

This morning I set a trip to the office, turned OFF T-Mobile Cell signal. It soon said "Searching for Network" I started my drive. I was surprised that the Navigation route continued with no signal and the Navigation voice continued to give me the directions. It showed the distance to final destination, but it did not calculate ETA. Even more surprising was that it still gave me the social media updates and warnings for abandon cars, police activity, road obstruction etc.

Further, when I made my destination, I stopped the trip. Then created a new trip and it calculated a new route with no issues even though I was not connected to a Cell Tower.

This further explains and confirms why I have never noticed a stop in my service with Waze. I have seen the Searching for Network before ( very rare and for very short period of time), but it obviously did nothing for me to notice a stop in my Waze functions.

So in short you don't have to have cell service to use Waze, but who has a phone with no Cell Service? If you live in rural area with spotty or no cell service... no problem for Waze

Also about the downloading of maps. I think this is another advantage of Waze. You don't need to download any maps. While you may need to for Garmin, Google Maps, or other GPS Apps, I have never had to download any maps. I am sure it must be related to the automatic updates of the App itself, not a specific function to download a map. This just makes for less complexity and ease of use.

I still cannot believe Waze is free
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Old 11-23-2022, 05:19 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by dkoldman View Post


Both of you are correct, two other favorable advantages of Waze over Google Maps I observed during my testing.

This morning I set a trip to the office, turned OFF T-Mobile Cell signal. It soon said "Searching for Network" I started my drive. I was surprised that the Navigation route continued with no signal and the Navigation voice continued to give me the directions. It showed the distance to final destination, but it did not calculate ETA. Even more surprising was that it still gave me the social media updates and warnings for abandon cars, police activity, road obstruction etc.

Further, when I made my destination, I stopped the trip. Then created a new trip and it calculated a new route with no issues even though I was not connected to a Cell Tower.

This further explains and confirms why I have never noticed a stop in my service with Waze. I have seen the Searching for Network before ( very rare and for very short period of time), but it obviously did nothing for me to notice a stop in my Waze functions.

So in short you don't have to have cell service to use Waze, but who has a phone with no Cell Service? If you live in rural area with spotty or no cell service... no problem for Waze

Also about the downloading of maps. I think this is another advantage of Waze. You don't need to download any maps. While you may need to for Garmin, Google Maps, or other GPS Apps, I have never had to download any maps. I am sure it must be related to the automatic updates of the App itself, not a specific function to download a map. This just makes for less complexity and ease of use.

I still cannot believe Waze is free
Downloading maps has nothing to do with the APP upgrading - that is strictly a software update.

If WAZE has maps to display when not connected to cell service it is because it downloaded them onto your phone without asking. The fact that it already had the appropriate maps downloaded allowed it to calculate your return trip.

Try this experiment:

Do the "To" trip exactly as you did before. At the destination, close WAZE and go into the APP's storage settings and "Clear data". Then open the app and try to route your return trip. You'll get a "No Network Connection, try again later" message and you'll have to now rely on your 890 to get you home.
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Old 11-23-2022, 06:04 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by 16ACE27 View Post
Downloading maps has nothing to do with the APP upgrading - that is strictly a software update.

If WAZE has maps to display when not connected to cell service it is because it downloaded them onto your phone without asking. The fact that it already had the appropriate maps downloaded allowed it to calculate your return trip.

Try this experiment:

Do the "To" trip exactly as you did before. At the destination, close WAZE and go into the APP's storage settings and "Clear data". Then open the app and try to route your return trip. You'll get a "No Network Connection, try again later" message and you'll have to now rely on your 890 to get you home.
I like a thinking man, and I always like to know why? Not to challenge but to learn.

I found a site with good Waze info and found this....
Due to the fact that Waze actively uses data received from other users, the app is updated every time your device has access to internet. It's enough to update the map itself every 1-2 weeks, especially if you often move around densely populated districts.

The best way is to update the data on the route you need right before you go on a trip, so that the app has time and possibility to assess the travel conditions and offer your the best path which then will be saved in the search history
.
So this explains that Waze updates App and Map every time it has Internet access and why I would never notice. It is doing so as part of unique feature over other GPS systems which is the receiving data from other users.

I confirmed your Test for me, but in a slightly different way. I was reluctant to Clear any of my data, because it works so well; but you made me see that, when I had stopped, closed Waze, and restarted before with no cell service, the next trip I made was to Home which is saved. I tried again to destinations I had never been to with Waze like New York, NY and I got a "Something went wrong. Try Again" message

Also, it is worth noting that when I said I was still getting the social updates and alerts, I now realize that it had to be the social updates / alerts at the point in time I had last connected to Waze with Internet / cell access. I really thought it was real time while being offline, because there was 2 car wreck on I -35 this morning and when I approached Waze gave me the alerts, but I suspect that accident had been there 15 minutes earlier when Waze updated itself (Apps & Map)

Here is a link to some good info on Waze
https://mygpstools.com/waze-gps-navi...e-offline-maps
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Old 11-23-2022, 06:21 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by 16ACE27 View Post
Try this experiment:

Do the "To" trip exactly as you did before. At the destination, close WAZE and go into the APP's storage settings and "Clear data". Then open the app and try to route your return trip. You'll get a "No Network Connection, try again later" message and you'll have to now rely on your 890 to get you home.
Try this experiment with your Garmin:

Do the "To" trip exactly as you did before. Then, close the network connection. Delete all your maps. I'm not sure what message you would get. But I'm betting the 890 won't get you home.

There are some really good reasons to own a dedicated GPS - I don't trust Google with my data; it won't be affected by application conflict when you most need it; frees your phone for other purposes etc.

But the technology is very similar - the device (phone or dedicated GPS) downloads maps and use location detection. Cell phones will use cell towers and nearby WIFI networks for more accurate location but only if they're available. Other then that, they both use satellite triangulation to determine location.
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Old 11-23-2022, 08:21 PM   #52
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I run my Garmin all times and use waze in metro areas That way they double check each other. My garmin came with proper cables and disc . I run a WiFi update every couple of weeks. Love them both
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Old 11-23-2022, 11:07 PM   #53
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I run my Garmin all times and use waze in metro areas That way they double check each other. My garmin came with proper cables and disc . I run a WiFi update every couple of weeks. Love them both
This is what I hope to conclude. I own both now, and intend to use both, but maybe the inverse of how you use? I can see running Waze at all times and my RV890 only when on a trip.

My RV890 came with everything but discs? When I called Garmin they didn't even mention they had a disc for RV890? They referred me to another mount they make for the dashboard (I provided link earlier) they said you need because of the weight? Regardless, I ordered the Magellan discs and I just got a notification they will be delivered early; so I may get today

When I get them both setup, I will start my comparison between the two. Yu can help keep me honest. But right now, I am quite surprised of so many Rv'ers never heard of use Waze. That is what started me down this track. I already see a number of things about the RV890 that I like, but nothing about what I see thus far that make even consider giving up Waze.
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Old 11-23-2022, 11:15 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by yukongrant View Post
Try this experiment with your Garmin:

Do the "To" trip exactly as you did before. Then, close the network connection. Delete all your maps. I'm not sure what message you would get. But I'm betting the 890 won't get you home.

There are some really good reasons to own a dedicated GPS - I don't trust Google with my data; it won't be affected by application conflict when you most need it; frees your phone for other purposes etc.

But the technology is very similar - the device (phone or dedicated GPS) downloads maps and use location detection. Cell phones will use cell towers and nearby WIFI networks for more accurate location but only if they're available. Other then that, they both use satellite triangulation to determine location.
Amen brutha

Maybe Jan or Feb, I will get my swimming trunks, fishing gear and drive up to the Yukon using that 400 mile tract with no cell service with Waze to get to my favorite warm Airbnb site and wrestle a few grizzlies
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Old 11-24-2022, 01:10 AM   #55
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Comparison Delayed

So the Magellan discs I ordered arrived today, but they don't fit. The diameter looks to be about 4mm to small

So I still can't mount my RV890 unless I wish to drill 3 holes in the dash ( I don't and I won't) or Mount on Windshield ( it is too far away) or driver window ( too big and blocks my view)

I will have to find 90mm disc, maybe try a 3M brand this time.
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Old 11-24-2022, 01:17 AM   #56
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95 mm, 3M VHB tape and you should have them by Friday.

https://www.amazon.com/Randconcept-A...dp/B07SPJ7BSX/
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Old 11-24-2022, 12:56 PM   #57
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So the Magellan discs I ordered arrived today, but they don't fit. The diameter looks to be about 4mm to small

So I still can't mount my RV890 unless I wish to drill 3 holes in the dash ( I don't and I won't) or Mount on Windshield ( it is too far away) or driver window ( too big and blocks my view)

I will have to find 90mm disc, maybe try a 3M brand this time.
We had the same problem with mounting our RV770. We purchased a small piece of plexiglass from Home Depot. I mounted it to our dash with Command picture hangers. They are black and have teeth on both strips. We now have a smooth surface that holds our Garmin well, and it should be removable in the future.

We also use Waze in combination with our Garmin.

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Old 11-24-2022, 02:24 PM   #58
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We had the same problem with mounting our RV770. We purchased a small piece of plexiglass from Home Depot. I mounted it to our dash with Command picture hangers. They are black and have teeth on both strips. We now have a smooth surface that holds our Garmin well, and it should be removable in the future.

We also use Waze in combination with our Garmin.

Pam
I used the 3m disc for my 770.
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Old 11-24-2022, 02:33 PM   #59
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95 mm, 3M VHB tape and you should have them by Friday.

https://www.amazon.com/Randconcept-A...dp/B07SPJ7BSX/
Thank you. Would it be too much trouble to ask you to correct my post #21 with this information you have provided? It may help some future reader who may not see where I later say they do not fit.

FWIW, I found out why they don't fit my suction cup, and it is another knock on Garmin and points out the flaw with Assuming.

The RV 890 comes with two mounting bases. Of course both fit the one magnet holder provided. They look identical but one has a suction cup and the other has 3 holes for screws. Since the base with the 3 holes did not have holder connected it was easier for me to measure and I got 3.25" or 82.44mm. Last night I noticed the base for screws fits the disc I ordered perfectly, but I can't use it because it has cushion on the bottom not suction. I had put both bases back to back to each other and the diameter look the same but off about 4mm (2mm/side). The suction needs at least 90mm or the 95mm in your link.

So in my book given that Garmin did not include the NEEDED mounting disc, they could have at least specified the size mounting disc needed and Engineering should have design the bases to be 100% interchangeable.
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Old 11-24-2022, 02:56 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Pabs4 View Post
We had the same problem with mounting our RV770. We purchased a small piece of plexiglass from Home Depot. I mounted it to our dash with Command picture hangers. They are black and have teeth on both strips. We now have a smooth surface that holds our Garmin well, and it should be removable in the future.

We also use Waze in combination with our Garmin.

Pam
Thanks, every time I go in Home Depot it cost me $100, it is as if they know I am coming and put stuff right where I will see when I come in the door

I am going to order the larger 3M Adhesive disc 90mm or 95mm in diameter. I will just have to wait until next week. I have gone 3 years in RV with Waze and never an issue, so I will manage.

When I do get around to comparing, I really would appreciate your feedback since you use both. That is my plan to use both on trips. One thing I have noticed already when using both in my SUV, the ETA is never the same and Garmin is always longer for exact same route / miles. But if no traffic interference; it catches up with the Waze about half way. This is driving around Dallas.

I think it very peculiar that they never seem to talk at the same time? They do, but it seems to be rare. Tuesday there was a accident on I-635 and both redirected me, the Garmin redirect was 25 min longer than the Waze redirect. Of course I followed the Waze redirect. It took about 10 minutes before the Garmin 890 figured it out and aligned with Waze, and updated it's arrival time.

I think I am really going to like both. I see more as a safety issue. Eventually if we traveling, my wife does not have to worry about getting info on a new unplanned stop on my phone, she can safely take the 890 Pad off the mount; while I still have Waze. When she figures out a new stop just set the 890 back on the mount. The PlanRV Services is already one of my favorite features of the RV890.
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2019 Sunstar 29ve; Toad Lincoln Navigator; RVi Brake 3 & Command Center; Roadmaster Nighthawk Tow bar & Baseplate; Sumo Springs; Safe T Plus; Onan EC-30 AGS; Vmax 250ah AGM; T-Mobile Internet; H/W Heater / Chassis Disconnect Switches; Southwire Surge Guard 44270 & 34951 w/Monitor 40301; Jet Flo Macerator; Alpine SPE500 Speakers; Visio M21D-H8R
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