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Old 07-10-2019, 03:00 AM   #21
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I think when I retire (10+ years from now) I will want TWO RV's.

One for day trips, take to mtn bike trail heads and maybe a weekender trip once in a while...........So a B or B plus.

And one for month long (or longer) trips and pull a toad......... So a 32 - 36 foot Class A.

IMO thats would be the best of both worlds (by having TWO ).
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:22 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Long & Winding road View Post
I think when I retire (10+ years from now) I will want TWO RV's.

One for day trips, take to mtn bike trail heads and maybe a weekender trip once in a while...........So a B or B plus.

And one for month long (or longer) trips and pull a toad......... So a 32 - 36 foot Class A.

IMO thats would be the best of both worlds (by having TWO ).
My Dad preferred trailers over motorhomes, But said it would be best to have three different RV's. A Motorhome, a travel trailer and a truck camper for off road. We can't have it all but we find the one that fits the best.
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Old 07-10-2019, 12:33 PM   #23
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I did a rough estimate of battery capacity to get an idea of how long it may be able to power an efficient air conditioner at normal operating conditions. For estimate I used the 330 Amp-hour 12V AGM battery rating below. The motorhome likely uses a different battery, but this is close enough. I used the 12V nominal voltage and rounded off.

Anyway, 330 Ah is at 20-hour discharge rate, which means 16.5 Amps, or 200 Watts for the 20 hours. But thatís to zero state of charge, so down to 50% ir could supply 200 Watts for 10 hours (this is only a rough estimate to get in the right ball park).

Using this manufacturerís data, we can expect the following run times from 100% down to 50%.

200 Watts X 10 hours

360 Watts X 5 hours

620 Watts X 2-1/2 hours

900 Watts X 1-3/4 hours

My original guess that the A/C would only run about an hour was about right. It would require at least 1200 ~ 1300 Watts supplied to inverter (assuming high inverter efficiency and nothing else running), which means battery would be down around 50% after 1 hour.

A second battery would extend run time to about 2-1/2 hours, which would make it much more useful. Unfortunately, if done frequently, weíd be looking at ~ $1,500 to replace two batteries that size (660 Ah total).

Initial cost of AGM battery is relatively good/low, but this shows why there is so much effort towards using lithium batteries.
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Old 07-10-2019, 01:04 PM   #24
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By the way, MSRP on a unit at General RV Center is $86,366, and advertised at $59,990. Thatís probably the lowest allowed minimum advertised price, which puts it below most Class B van campers.

Looking at their pictures I also got another question or two I had answered. It seems clear the holding tanks are below the garage. That explains why they didnít make garage floor lower so bed wouldnít be so high.

It also explains why they went with shorter 156Ē instead of 178Ē wheelbase, which would have reduced the long rear overhang where garage load is going to be placed. Looking at floorplan, it appears the toilet and shower drain behind the rear wheels. The longer wheelbase Transit would probably have had interference, plus added a bit of cost.


Another odd design feature: The over cab TV seems viewable from only one of the two dinette seats. Seems to me this floorplan needs swivel captain chairs, with additional table between them (for two others to eat), and TV mounted outside of bathroom wall where it can be viewed from cab seats plus one dinette seat.
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Old 07-10-2019, 01:05 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Long & Winding road View Post
I think when I retire (10+ years from now) I will want TWO RV's.
One for day trips, take to mtn bike trail heads and maybe a weekender trip once in a while...........So a B or B plus.
And one for month long (or longer) trips and pull a toad......... So a 32 - 36 foot Class A.
Two?
I would need to hit some serious PowerBall money; for that option to open-up for me...
I congratulate you on your financial planning abilities!
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Old 07-10-2019, 01:51 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by bry899 View Post
My Dad preferred trailers over motorhomes, But said it would be best to have three different RV's. A Motorhome, a travel trailer and a truck camper for off road. We can't have it all but we find the one that fits the best.
The best combination I recall ever seeing was years ago near Death Valley (for those with very deep pockets). It was a luxury diesel pusher flat towing a Sportsmobile 4X4 Ford E-350 camper van.

The van by itself was quite the rig, but to serve as a toad for day trips, whether on or off-road, would be awesome.
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Old 07-10-2019, 01:57 PM   #27
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$59,999 is a great price point. This RV is small enough that someone might even use it as a daily (or weekly) vehicle. Just needs a few tweaks like you mentioned to be that much better.

Double the battery compacity (really go to like 400 - 600 amps of lithium but that would raise the price by 4 to 6K).

Move the TV

Swivel captains chairs.

Extra table for cockpit area

Perhaps in a couple of years they will see how well the small RV's with a "bike garages" do and offer more floor plans and options.
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:00 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
Two?
I would need to hit some serious PowerBall money; for that option to open-up for me...
I congratulate you on your financial planning abilities!
Well you cant take it with you.

Oh yeah Bob, I forgot to tell you...... We are moving in with you so we can sell our house and buy more toys.
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:12 PM   #29
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Only if you help with the yard chores...
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Old 07-10-2019, 05:00 PM   #30
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Also keep in mind that with more EV's on the road every day the price of Li-Ion batteries drops accordingly.

The # of EV's on the road is also growing almost exponentially (kind of linear for the existing EV's but there are more and more models available as time goes on).
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:43 PM   #31
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Only if you help with the yard chores...
Sure, we can do that. What for dinner tonight? LOL.
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:54 PM   #32
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She didn't tell me anything other than "It'll be some sort of chicken"...

http://www.thorforums.com/forums/att...1&d=1562781247
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:58 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by JamieGeek View Post
Also keep in mind that with more EV's on the road every day the price of Li-Ion batteries drops accordingly.

The # of EV's on the road is also growing almost exponentially (kind of linear for the existing EV's but there are more and more models available as time goes on).
Yep, Auto manufactures will be phasing out IC engines over the next 3 to 6 years (at least in "regular passenger Cars"... im sure light trucks and HD trucks will take longer).

I was telling someone about this and they said "no way, that will never happen".... well its happening... all of the auto manufactures are talking about it. They can do thier on research if they dont believe us.

Sure it will take 10 + years before 75% current owners of IC will need a new car. And some diehard will hang on to the IC engines until they (the owners not the cars) die. But you wont be able to purchase a NEW IC auto pretty soon.

But the price should come down on the Litium batteries over the next few years. I think once they get to that $299 to $399 range for 100 amp hr size the RV buyers will be all over them.

Cant wait.
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:10 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Long & Winding road View Post
$59,999 is a great price point. This RV is small enough that someone might even use it as a daily (or weekly) vehicle. Just needs a few tweaks like you mentioned to be that much better.

Double the battery compacity (really go to like 400 - 600 amps of lithium but that would raise the price by 4 to 6K).

Move the TV

Swivel captains chairs.

Extra table for cockpit area

Perhaps in a couple of years they will see how well the small RV's with a "bike garages" do and offer more floor plans and options.

The problem for me (and many others Iíd bet) is that I canít park a Class B+ or Class C at home regardless of small size, so going a little larger carries very little penalty other than fuel costs, and those differences arenít all that significant compared to total cost of ownership. A B+ canít be a good second vehicle for many buyers.

What I find interesting about the Cross Trek is that the general floorplan arrangement is very close to what Iíve suggested Thor should offer as an Axis touring floorplan ó just a little larger than the Cross Trek.

Using 176Ē wheelbase E-Series chassis (unstretched), they could build an Axis with slightly-elevated Twin/King beds over a garage. And by going to a split bath, the fridge wouldnít end up directly across from bathroom.

A narrow dinette about 38~39 inches wide behind driver could accommodate up to 4 people occasionally, plus there would be the two extra front seats and table for a gang of up to six. And the overhead bed would make it possible to sleep more people without making the motorhome much larger than the Cross Trek.

I hate to say it, but Thor could offer a built-in Onan 2,800-Watt generator as an option for those who need to run air conditioner for extended periods. Without a slide, they could place generator under the dinette to reduce noise at night for sleeping in bedroom. By offering a simpler Axis floorplan, Thor could get the price point a lot lower for those who like to KISS.
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:17 PM   #35
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Also keep in mind that with more EV's on the road every day the price of Li-Ion batteries drops accordingly.

The # of EV's on the road is also growing almost exponentially (kind of linear for the existing EV's but there are more and more models available as time goes on).
Whatís your thought on the lithium chemistry being used by auto industry versus whatís more common as an RV battery? Will price of common lithium RV battery drop like those in autos? Some manufacturers are still running as high as $1,000 per kWh when BMS is included.
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:19 PM   #36
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Yep your right.

I just hope this Cross Trek sells well where Thor can justify your new floor plans with a "Super Mega Storge".... or "Chance's Garage" under the bed .

Use the Axis floor plan, give us some litium battery and a small genset or two big alt on the ford engine.

Like to see about 130 cu. foot of storage in ONE location. And another 20 around the RV (150 total).
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Old 07-10-2019, 08:06 PM   #37
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This one is for you Chase. LOL

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Old 07-11-2019, 01:49 AM   #38
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Whatís your thought on the lithium chemistry being used by auto industry versus whatís more common as an RV battery? Will price of common lithium RV battery drop like those in autos? Some manufacturers are still running as high as $1,000 per kWh when BMS is included.
I think the problem there is that the cells and chemistry in the auto industry are currently tightly held secrets by the various manufacturers and thus it isn't that easy to just go buy a battery with the same chemistry as in car X (even ones by normal OEM's: Jaguar, Chevy, Hyundai, etc.)--I would bet they have contracts with the battery manufacturers so they can't share or sell those batteries to anyone else.

Still its only a matter of time until the generic cells also come down in price.
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Old 11-13-2019, 01:09 PM   #39
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Coachmen has expanded the Cross Trek line to include larger Class Cs built on Ford E-350 or Chevy 4500.

The larger 27XG has a fairly normal floorplan except for elevated bed and huge Euro-style garage below. Cargo carrying capacity based on specs is great.

I havenít seen pictures of the smaller new floorplan with corner bed, so donít know what sets it apart other than not having a generator.

What do you guys think of shorter cab overhead extension? Limits overhead bed to one person, but might improve visibility and feeling of openness while driving a little.
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Old 11-13-2019, 01:17 PM   #40
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But the shorter overhead means that it'll be easier for the Sun to get in your eyes
This is all interesting; but I'm still thinking that it needs more power producing and storing capacity...
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