Drained chassis battery

[smlmicky]

Originally Posted by Beau388

Take you shoulder and push hard on the hood next to the latch while turning the key. Also make sure your coach is level before trying to open the hood. Usually this is not necessary but sometimes helps. My hold open air supports are so weak that now I can just use one hand to push on the hood while turning the key.

At idle, the Ford alternator will produce about 30 amps usable. If it is the typical Motorcraft battery, it has a rating of about 65 amp hours, so I would say a minim of 2 hours. That should give you an 80% charge - if the battery will accept it. Leaving a LA battery discharged for more than a couple hours will seriously degrade its ability to take a charge.

Thanks. Shoulder power not strong enough!!! Going to camping world tomorrow morning to help open. About an hr away. Will check chg before turning off, and will leave on if needed. Will assess whether or not I need a new battery if existing can't hold a chg (shame on me!). Also will check dogbone there and get new one if needed.

Thanks for all your info and advice!

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by HMCSW

Can't imagine why would drain chassis batteries other than having something on the chassis on. Pretty sure shore power only charges the house batteries. But someone else can confirm or correct.

All Thor MC built plant 750 coaches have some system to charge the chassis batteries. In the old days it was a BCC, then came the BIRD; lately it is BIM. All work the same way. The alternator charges the chassis battery and the BIM connects the two battery banks (chassis battery to house batteries). If the coach's converter is on and the battery isolation, latching relay is the use/on position; the converter will charge the house batteries, and the BIM will connect both battery banks. There can always be a broken relay, burnt out control module, broke, wire/cable. That is why I would never own any vehicle with a volt meter attached to the chassis battery. Note the small rectangular volt meter just above the drink holder.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Beau388

All Thor MC built plant 750 coaches have some system to charge the chassis batteries. In the old days it was a BCC, then came the BIRD; lately it is BIM. All work the same way. The alternator charges the chassis battery and the BIM connects the two battery banks (chassis battery to house batteries). If the coach's converter is on and the battery isolation, latching relay is the use/on position; the converter will charge the house batteries, and the BIM will connect both battery banks. There can always be a broken relay, burnt out control module, broke, wire/cable. That is why I would never own any vehicle with a volt meter attached to the chassis battery. Note the small rectangular volt meter just above the drink holder.

We think a like. Noticed the Red LED. I always know exactly what is the Voltage on the Chassis in a simple view. I also have it on the EC-30 Controller; but this one is easy to see quickly at a glance and while driving.

[smlmicky]

I'm not too knowledgeable of all you're talking about - the connects (e.g., BIM) btwn the chassis and coach batteries (learning), but I found a new wrinkle in this for me in that I also have solar panels on the roof, which seem to fuel at least the bedroom tv when the coach batteries are disconnected (???), and what supplies the solar monitors and displays? I'm really gun shy right now with stuff draining the chassis battery when no shore power or generator on. And now, how is the solar power playing into this?

[jbreeder]

Originally Posted by smlmicky

Hello!



I could use your help, please. I'm a new Thor Windsport owner. Picked RV up at dealer, drove 1.5 hrs to RV park. On 50amp shore power overnight. Started up the next morning, drove 8 hrs to home. Now, 2 problems:



1) tried to plug into 30amp shore power with no load, keeps tripping the breaker immediately. What am I doing wrong? Or what do I need to check?



2) Chassis battery is at 3.7v. Can't start the RV. What could possibly have drained it? And how do I rectify?



Thank you so much!

smlmicky

I'm not sure about you RV.

I have a 30A Freedom Traveler. Ford F53 chassis. The vehicle starts from the vehicle battery under the front hood. I had to replace mine early on.

When you were driving home, did you have your cabin battery which on? The cabin batteries will no charge if it is in the off position. Radio would also not work.

Same question with the breaker? House or motorhome.

Still learning here too.

[exit55]

have had similar problem with my 2016 Thor. According to Ford, the ignition switch was not engaging, They replace, but I also have other problem (a parasite).

On the battery and charger, Couldn't get to neg post on battery. Took a battery jump lead of a golf car, skinned in middle. twisted and put on a bolt that goes to the frame. Easy to connect now.

[cmills1334]

so happy to see this have a2016 31w and it seems to discharge the chass bat when plugged in and use switch on rv shop think im out of my mind started after they replaced my radio/backup camera combo

[Mkayers]

Newbie here too, great to see this topic lol. 2014 37lx. Been plugged in to shore power for a couple weeks. Had to pull the coach up on levelers to adjust the Safe-T-Plus I just installed. Started it up and pulled up on the blocks & shut it off, had to adjust so I started it and moved it a bit. When I got done I went out & unplugged the shore power to take it for a ride & the chassis battery was dead? Had to use emergency start to start it. "Use" switch was turned off at that time. I jumped in to start it about 15 seconds after unplugging from shore power, does it take a bit to switch something over or something?

[groucho4u]

A Bad house breaker? If the breaker is good, you're probably over loading it? As a note: RV batteries are notorious for going bad. Check the water and load test (not hooked up) regularly.

[Wiley1]

Perhaps I read too fast and missed something in this thread, but, I'm going to toss out a few guesses anyway.

I am pretty darn sure that nothing in my 2017 Freedom Elite is configured to charge the chassis battery except the vehicle's alternator. Not the converter connected to shore power, not the Onan Generator, and definitely not solar.

Odd as it seems, I believe you may have two separate problems, one in the chassis and one in the coach.

If your chassis battery started the vehicle when you left the dealership and again when you left the campground, WITHOUT using the Emerg Start Button, that battery started out in good shape. You drove it 8 hours. If the alternator was bad, that battery would have died long before you reached home. But, now it is at 3.7 volts? Wow! Something drained it bad.

If your BIM (battery isolation module) is working correctly, the chassis battery can't be drawn down by problems in the coach and the coach batteries can't be drawn down by problems in the chassis. They are two separate, isolated, systems with two exceptions: Your vehicle alternator can charge both batteries at once AND the two systems effectively become one when somebody holds down the Emerg Start Button.

For the chassis battery, I would proceed like this:

1. disconnect the negative battery cable from the frame
2. measure the voltage on the chassis battery with no load
3. charge it overnight using a standard car battery charger
4. in the morning, check the voltage again. it should be around 13.8 or greater
5. verify that every electrical switch and appliance is off including lights, brake pedal, convenience lights, and 12v accessories. Make sure all doors are closed including the glove box and the hood.
6. reconnect the negative cable
7. check the voltage again, with and without the engine running

This only proves whether your chassis battery can hold a charge.
Finding a current drain is another procedure.

For your coach batteries:

1. disconnect shore power
2. verify that the Emergency Start Button is off, not stuck in the closed position
3. put the run/store switch in the store position. that will effectively turn off everything that uses 12vdc except maybe the CO detector
4. turn off all the breakers in your AC breaker panel except the main
5. connect your dogbone to shorepower without the coach connected
6. if your home breaker hasn't tripped, connect your coach shorepower cable to the dogbone
7. if the home breaker still hasn't tripped, your dogbone is probably OK.
8. check the voltage on your coach battery bank
9. find the breaker that feeds your AC-DC converter/charger and flip it on
10. if any breaker trips, you might have a bad converter
11. check the battery voltage again. if the voltage has increased, your converter is working and your coach batteries are charging
12. allow your coach batteries to charge overnight and check again in the morning

To continue troubleshooting, flip your use/store switch to the Use position and start turning on things that use 12 volts, like your awning and your slides. If one of those is drawing too much current, it should blow a 12 volt fuse.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Mkayers

Newbie here too, great to see this topic lol. 2014 37lx. Been plugged in to shore power for a couple weeks. Had to pull the coach up on levelers to adjust the Safe-T-Plus I just installed. Started it up and pulled up on the blocks & shut it off, had to adjust so I started it and moved it a bit. When I got done I went out & unplugged the shore power to take it for a ride & the chassis battery was dead? Had to use emergency start to start it. "Use" switch was turned off at that time. I jumped in to start it about 15 seconds after unplugging from shore power, does it take a bit to switch something over or something?

Nothing to "switch over".
Start with checking the status of your chassis battery. Charge it and load test it.
On our ACE we never had any problem with our chassis battery until we stopped for gas on the way home one day. It would not start after filling up, not even a click. Used the emergency start and generator to get it started; when I got home checked the chassis battery and it had a bad cell. That's how quick these things can sneak up on you - works fine one minute and a problem the next.

[Mkayers]

Good to know that about "switching". I will start deep diving now lol. Thanks for the help!

[smlmicky]

Originally Posted by jbreeder

I'm not sure about you RV.

I have a 30A Freedom Traveler. Ford F53 chassis. The vehicle starts from the vehicle battery under the front hood. I had to replace mine early on.

When you were driving home, did you have your cabin battery which on? The cabin batteries will no charge if it is in the off position. Radio would also not work.

Cabin/coach batteries were on while driving home, charging. My drained chassis battery was a result of the cab lights being left on after I got home.
Hadn't known they were on to begin with! Will always check all switches from here on out!

Same question with the breaker? House or motorhome.

House breaker. I'm replacing the house 30amp breaker, after 15 yrs of performance. Missed at first , but I had a red LED light on the 50amp power cord, in addition to the 2 blue LEDs. The red LED indicates no neutral wire present. Bad breaker!

Still learning here too.

Answered inline above.

[Muggs]

Had chassis battery dead one time early on. Learned leaving parked with "Use" switch off disconnects chassis battery from converter. We now leave it plugged in all time when not in use.

Fast forward to day chassis battery actually quit. Started RV, disconnected from house power and headed to track. Stopped for gas, left running lights on. No power 8.2 volts. Jumped with race car charger and gen. Went home. Left it sit all night after 30 mile drive home with terminal off. Had 13.9v running, 8.2v next morning replaced battery. My procedure is now disconnect at least and hour before starting engine with volt display plugged in lighter socket. If is not holding 12.7v I know chassis battery getting tired.

Of all the things I do to maintain RV in state of readiness, I completely ignored fact while plugged in with "use" switch on, RV will always start. Checking water is an adventure as it is buried. Thor left cutout under desk to allow battery swap. Ultimately no big issue.

[smlmicky]

Originally Posted by cmills1334

so happy to see this have a2016 31w and it seems to discharge the chass bat when plugged in and use switch on rv shop think im out of my mind started after they replaced my radio/backup camera combo

I'm sorry you had probs with chassis battery. My problem turned out to be a left on switch (cab lights) that drained the battery.

[Wiley1]

Unless we're talking about a GFCI, which I'm sure we are not, a bad breaker can not cause an open neutral. Why not? Because only the black wire passes through the breaker. The white wire (neutral) is bonded to the panel ground.

You may have a bad receptacle, some bad in-wall wiring, or a connection issue inside the panel, but your open neutral won't be fixed by changing a breaker.

Please confirm that you are not using an extension cord.
You have your dog-bone connected directly to the receptacle and your coach's shore power cable plugged directly into the dog bone. Correct?

[smlmicky]

Originally Posted by Beau388

All Thor MC built plant 750 coaches have some system to charge the chassis batteries. In the old days it was a BCC, then came the BIRD; lately it is BIM. All work the same way. The alternator charges the chassis battery and the BIM connects the two battery banks (chassis battery to house batteries). If the coach's converter is on and the battery isolation, latching relay is the use/on position; the converter will charge the house batteries, and the BIM will connect both battery banks. There can always be a broken relay, burnt out control module, broke, wire/cable. That is why I would never own any vehicle with a volt meter attached to the chassis battery. Note the small rectangular volt meter just above the drink holder.

Thank you again for this! I understand!

[smlmicky]

Originally Posted by Wiley1

Perhaps I read too fast and missed something in this thread, but, I'm going to toss out a few guesses anyway.

I am pretty darn sure that nothing in my 2017 Freedom Elite is configured to charge the chassis battery except the vehicle's alternator. Not the converter connected to shore power, not the Onan Generator, and definitely not solar.

Odd as it seems, I believe you may have two separate problems, one in the chassis and one in the coach.

If your chassis battery started the vehicle when you left the dealership and again when you left the campground, WITHOUT using the Emerg Start Button, that battery started out in good shape. You drove it 8 hours. If the alternator was bad, that battery would have died long before you reached home. But, now it is at 3.7 volts? Wow! Something drained it bad.

Yes. Cabin lights (on the dash) left on; didn't know they were ever switched on to begin with. Chassis battery has been fine after emergency start and 1+ hrs driving (and getting battery checked for any permanent damage). And ensuring everything off in cab.

If your BIM (battery isolation module) is working correctly, the chassis battery can't be drawn down by problems in the coach and the coach batteries can't be drawn down by problems in the chassis. They are two separate, isolated, systems with two exceptions: Your vehicle alternator can charge both batteries at once AND the two systems effectively become one when somebody holds down the Emerg Start Button.

For the chassis battery, I would proceed like this:

1. disconnect the negative battery cable from the frame
2. measure the voltage on the chassis battery with no load
3. charge it overnight using a standard car battery charger
4. in the morning, check the voltage again. it should be around 13.8 or greater
5. verify that every electrical switch and appliance is off including lights, brake pedal, convenience lights, and 12v accessories. Make sure all doors are closed including the glove box and the hood.
6. reconnect the negative cable
7. check the voltage again, with and without the engine running

This only proves whether your chassis battery can hold a charge.
Finding a current drain is another procedure.

For your coach batteries:

1. disconnect shore power
2. verify that the Emergency Start Button is off, not stuck in the closed position
3. put the run/store switch in the store position. that will effectively turn off everything that uses 12vdc except maybe the CO detector
4. turn off all the breakers in your AC breaker panel except the main
5. connect your dogbone to shorepower without the coach connected
6. if your home breaker hasn't tripped, connect your coach shorepower cable to the dogbone
7. if the home breaker still hasn't tripped, your dogbone is probably OK.
8. check the voltage on your coach battery bank
9. find the breaker that feeds your AC-DC converter/charger and flip it on
10. if any breaker trips, you might have a bad converter
11. check the battery voltage again. if the voltage has increased, your converter is working and your coach batteries are charging
12. allow your coach batteries to charge overnight and check again in the morning

THank you. Camping World checked coach batteries and connectivity using my dogbone and their power supply (with 30amp breaker). All worked well. They said gotta be my house 30amp breaker (has worked well for past 15 yrs). Getting home, I started the sequence again. House breaker on. Plugged in dogbone to outlet. No tripping. Plugged in 50amp cord to dogbone (not connected to RV). No tripping. Then noticed a red LED light illuminated under the cord handle in addition to the 2 blue LEDs I've been seeing all along. Tag on the 50amp cord states red LED means no neutral wire present, and presumes a bad breaker. Husband just bought a new 30amp GFCI breaker for me. If this doesn't work immediately, I'll go thru your procedure above.

To continue troubleshooting, flip your use/store switch to the Use position and start turning on things that use 12 volts, like your awning and your slides. If one of those is drawing too much current, it should blow a 12 volt fuse.

Thanks for your time in providing all of this!!! Very helpful!

[smlmicky]

Originally Posted by Wiley1

Unless we're talking about a GFCI, which I'm sure we are not, a bad breaker can not cause an open neutral. Why not? Because only the black wire passes through the breaker. The white wire (neutral) is bonded to the panel ground.

Actually, yes, GFCI breaker. We've also tried resetting the GFCI, and still have the issue.

You may have a bad receptacle, some bad in-wall wiring, or a connection issue inside the panel, but your open neutral won't be fixed by changing a breaker.

OK. Already bought the new breaker. I guess we'll check what you're suggesting here and maybe return the breaker if not the issue. In wall wiring has been there since 2005 and never any problem. Will definitely check the receptacle. Can't imagine a connection issue inside the panel since the breaker had worked for 15 yrs, unless a recent electrician installing breaker for house generator messed something up (breakers are relatively close in the panel), but I can't see this.

Please confirm that you are not using an extension cord.

Confirmed, no extension cord!!!

You have your dog-bone connected directly to the receptacle and your coach's shore power cable plugged directly into the dog bone. Correct?

Yes. That's when I get the red LED light (when connecting power cable to dogbone that's already connected to receptacle). No RV connection yet.
Tag on cord says that means no neutral present.

Thanks so much for the response!!!

[Wiley1]

Local electric codes vary from place to place, but...

It is not typical for a 30A RV outlet to be protected by a GFCI breaker.

I'm not surprised that you're having trouble with yours. GFCI breakers can be very finicky, especially in the higher amperages.

You might consider installing a standard 30A breaker instead.

Or, better yet, if the distance is not too great, the ideal receptacle for your new monster motorhome would be a 50A outlet, but that will require all new in-wall or in-conduit 6-gauge or 8-gauge wiring. Then you could run all your electric dryers, waffle-irons, and dishwashers, all at the same time.