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Old 10-04-2020, 07:42 AM   #1
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E-450 V10 Cool Air Pack

I wanted to throw this out here and possibly try it before I suggested on modifications and updates.

I was counseled on a cold air pack for an e450 cutaway carrying a 33' class C 31L (bumper to bumper).

I was wondering if anyone went there and can share what they found.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 10-05-2020, 04:53 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by The_Breeze View Post
I wanted to throw this out here and possibly try it before I suggested on modifications and updates.



I was counseled on a cold air pack for an e450 cutaway carrying a 33' class C 31L (bumper to bumper).



I was wondering if anyone went there and can share what they found.



Thanks in advance.


Assuming that a “cool air pack” is a new intake system my opinion (FWIW) is to not bother. Ford has some pretty good engineers and my experience is that unless you are trying to fix a particular problem you’re unlikely to see much benefit. You might study the current design to see if any of Thor’s work somehow hinders airflow though.
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Old 10-05-2020, 06:09 PM   #3
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Assuming that a “cool air pack” is a new intake system my opinion (FWIW) is to not bother. Ford has some pretty good engineers and my experience is that unless you are trying to fix a particular problem you’re unlikely to see much benefit. You might study the current design to see if any of Thor’s work somehow hinders airflow though.

RV manufacturers usually don’t do much under the hood of Class Cs, so unlikely they would cause much of a problem.

Agree air intake is already pretty good so not much to gain. I haven’t tried it, nor would I, since I’d consider it a waste of my money for my needs.

The only significant value I see is if someone derives pleasure from owning such an upgrade, in which case that’s all the justification that’s needed.
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Old 10-05-2020, 10:42 PM   #4
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A nice open intke system will sound righteous when you stomp on the loud pedal...
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Old 10-05-2020, 11:06 PM   #5
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Thank you for your feedback. It sounds like a cost v. benefit decision. I supposedly can gain 10hp, not quite straight on whether that'll decrease or increase mileage under certain driving conditions. I can get into it for $30. Doesn't seem like a bad risk if it has a good outcome. I may pull the trigger on this one. The motor's just too weak. I have to do something.

Thank again.
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Old 10-05-2020, 11:27 PM   #6
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If you're putting more air through the engine: it's gonna need more fuel to go along,with it...
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Old 10-05-2020, 11:45 PM   #7
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If you're putting more air through the engine: it's gonna need more fuel to go along,with it...
So a consumption uptick. It'll be an interesting little experiment. You may be right. I have been capturing mileage data since I started and that's attached. Let's see what happens. One of my Dad's favorite sayings: You never know what you can do, until you try. Here goes.
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Old 10-05-2020, 11:46 PM   #8
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....cut....

The motor's just too weak. I have to do something.

....cut....
Lose weight?

Shed 500 pounds and it’s roughly equal to extra 10 HP (for 14,500-pound rig), and losing weight will save gas and improve performance 100% of time, not just under full throttle. Not that I know if upgrade will actually yield 10 HP.
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Old 10-05-2020, 11:57 PM   #9
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Lose weight?

Shed 500 pounds and it’s roughly equal to extra 10 HP (for 14,500-pound rig), and losing weight will save gas and improve performance 100% of time, not just under full throttle. Not that I know if upgrade will actually yield 10 HP.
Thanks. I mean that.

I'm an old gear head. I like to try things. I built a 383 back in`75 that dyno'd 450bhp. The RV will never be that but the same quest remains ingrained. Next run will be from western NC to north FL. Let's see how that works out. I'll post the an updated graph if it interests people.
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Old 10-06-2020, 12:08 AM   #10
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If you're putting more air through the engine: it's gonna need more fuel to go along,with it...
It's not more air, it's cooler, denser air holding more oxygen for a more complete fuel burn.
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Old 10-06-2020, 12:08 AM   #11
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. This could be interesting...
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Old 10-06-2020, 12:19 AM   #12
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It's not more air, it's cooler, denser air holding more oxygen for a more complete fuel burn.
What he said, which in turn should produce more horsepower. 10 might be a little optimistic but let's see what happens.
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Old 10-06-2020, 12:24 AM   #13
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Sorry: denser air needs more fuel... and the more fuel you can burn: the more power you make!
(Tuned engines for more power for over 40 years...)
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Old 10-06-2020, 12:24 AM   #14
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It's a lot more money but......

Have you considered a tune? There are several out there and 5-Star is a popular one on this forum.

This is another one that claims over a 50HP and over 70FT-LB Torque gains:

https://www.ultrarvproducts.com/Ford...-Custom-Tuning


I did try the 5-Star Tune in my 2018 Outlaw 29H V10. It did seem to help with some power and the shifting. I took a small fuel economy hit but the performance was better.

That being said.... and I'm not knocking the V10.... but after owning a 30' Class C with the V10 and now a 35' Super C with the 6.7L Powerstroke Diesel, it is clear to me that the V10 is being pushed to its limit in a rig that is almost 15,000lbs.

My Super C is pushing 20,000 lbs and the performance of the 6.7L Diesel can't compare. There is plenty of power with all the weight and room to spare.

On top of that is the fuel economy. I just finished a trip where I averaged over 10MPG while towing a trailer with my Can-Am Spyder. When I carried the Spyder in the Outlaw garage, I was lucky to get 7MPG.

Granted there is a big price difference between the gassers and the diesels but when it comes to a heavy rig being adequately powered, it is clear to me that the V10 is about at its limits.
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Old 10-06-2020, 12:27 AM   #15
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I never got better than 9 mpg when the Spyder was in my 29h's garage...
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Old 10-06-2020, 12:32 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Pete'sMH View Post
Assuming that a “cool air pack” is a new intake system my opinion (FWIW) is to not bother. Ford has some pretty good engineers and my experience is that unless you are trying to fix a particular problem you’re unlikely to see much benefit. You might study the current design to see if any of Thor’s work somehow hinders airflow though.
Not to call you out. Sharing what I've learned. If that's ok and you look at the intake route from grill to plenum, it has a lot of curves. That means turbulence and turbulent air disrupts performance. This system will smooth things out and packs the intake route with more cool dense air. Almost like forced induction. That never hurts an engine unless it's too much.

Once built a cold pack system from scratch for an MGB. It lost power if you met on oncoming tractor trailer. It had to be removed. It worked well everywhere else and seemed to give the car more spunk. Throttle response was better and so was torque when you pushed the pedal going up a hill. It was only when it got packed too tight, it would fail the system. It had dual carbs, so we ran two hoses from a scoop nestled behind the grill. Either the scoop was too big, there were too many hoses or it was just a bad idea.

I'll never know for sure.
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Old 10-06-2020, 01:03 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Judge View Post

cut...

https://www.ultrarvproducts.com/Ford...-Custom-Tuning


I did try the 5-Star Tune in my 2018 Outlaw 29H V10. It did seem to help with some power and the shifting. I took a small fuel economy hit but the performance was better.
That's good to know but, for $30 let's see if this makes a difference. As said, little investment for the risk. Glad to see you and yours are ok.
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Old 10-06-2020, 01:47 AM   #18
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I agree: it's good entertainment for just thirty bucks.
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Old 10-06-2020, 02:02 AM   #19
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I agree: it's good entertainment for just thirty bucks.
Like there's not enough to do on these things. It'll be good to wrench on an enhancement instead of a fix and see how it goes.
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Old 10-06-2020, 02:45 AM   #20
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What he said, which in turn should produce more horsepower. 10 might be a little optimistic but let's see what happens.

No, you’re not getting free HP without spending extra fuel. When air is cooler, it is denser, so the engine can handle more “mass flow rate” for the same volumetric rate.

Efficiency can change a minor amount, but for the most part if you get more power you should assume more fuel as well. What you’re talking about here isn’t that different than derating internal combustion engines at elevation where air is thinner, or in warmer temperatures where air is also thinner; you’re just doing it in reverse. In your case fuel cost won’t add up because how often do you drive at 100% power, so going from 305 to 315 HP will be a rare occurrence.

The cool thing (no pun intended) about lower vehicle weight is that a van like mine can accelerate and climb as if your rig had 610 HP, not 305 HP. With my power-to-weight, there’s no need for upgrades. Lighter weight and corresponding greater performance is one of the benefits I like best about downsizing from a Class C to a B van.
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