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Old 09-27-2018, 03:14 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Baddad53 View Post
Once the truck manufacturers stop listening to the Bubba's and start making hybrids the game is on for RV's.
The upcoming Ford F-150 Plug-in Hybrid will put truck “change” to the test. And it will feature a battery-powered inverter “generator”.

For contractors a built-in generator will come in handy to power tools. Fortunate for us the very same technology can power an A/C or microwave just as easily as powering a contractor’s table saw. Let’s hope Ford sizes it large enough.
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Old 09-27-2018, 06:00 AM   #22
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2/3 of this country's electricity is generated by burning fossil fuels. What's the point of an electric vehicle if you have to burn gas to charge it up?
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Old 09-27-2018, 11:43 AM   #23
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"Once the truck manufacturers stop listening to the Bubba's and start making hybrids the game is on for RV's."

We already have the Fault Line wired with tons of C4 and you guys are on your last thread.


"2/3 of this country's electricity is generated by burning fossil fuels. What's the point of an electric vehicle if you have to burn gas to charge it up?"


Had the same exact thought last night...it's the old adage of "cutting your nose off to spite your face". Ignorance is intentional....stupid can't be fixed. Burning of coal generates most of the electricity in this country. Maybe we offer free lifetime camping for the ERV's around all the coal plants. As long as you say it's free they will show up regardless of what tree they have to let go of to get there.
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Old 09-27-2018, 12:11 PM   #24
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Electric E-450!

Haha Gritz If you cut down all the trees where am I going to park my RV under? . This is not about where we are but where we are going. Take a look at this link on energy production. Personally I can’t wait until we have hybrids and I can get rid of the noisy inefficient generator And don’t have 80 dB in the cab from sitting on that v10

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/mont...hp?t=epmt_1_01
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Old 09-27-2018, 12:19 PM   #25
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You got my back...thanks for confirming my statement!! I'm all about hybrid technology in it's proper application. This is the same example of the new "stupid gas" with ethanol. People don't realize (or they employ ignorance) as to just how much fossil fuel it takes to turn corn into gasoline. Ignorance isn't stupid...it's the poor art of ignoring the obvious and most logical solution for a cosmic result.
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Old 09-27-2018, 12:41 PM   #26
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You got my back...thanks for confirming my statement!! I'm all about hybrid technology in it's proper application. This is the same example of the new "stupid gas" with ethanol. People don't realize (or they employ ignorance) as to just how much fossil fuel it takes to turn corn into gasoline. Ignorance isn't stupid...it's the poor art of ignoring the obvious and most logical solution for a cosmic result.
You are missing the point of that chart, however. Its not that the current grid is 2/3 fossil fuels. Look at the trend lines. In a few years it will be 1/2 then 2/3 renewables. It is quickly going the other way as scale is making renewables cheaper and cheaper (regardless of subsidies). This means that if you were to start driving electric right now your car will get more "green" over time.

My local utility finally figured out that solar is "free" once you've invested the up front costs. They have solar "farms" popping up all over the area. I bet that they are also trying to outrun all the customers attempting to put solar on their roofs.

In addition there are certain areas of Michigan that all you can see for miles and miles is wind farms.

All this despite Michigan being a pretty conservative state.
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Old 09-27-2018, 01:11 PM   #27
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Looking at the chart is like reading a Playboy back in the good ole days. Everyone, every month automatically flips it open to their favorite section. some to the TOC...others to the centerfold...others read from the back forward. All I see in this trend is the transition from coal to natural gas where by fossil fuels still dominate production of electricity. What's funny is your statement about..."it's FREE, once you've invested the up front costs". What isn't?? The average break even point of solar power transition is over 20 years. I'll be pushing up daisies and not caring. Now...bring me a shot of diesel with a gasoline chaser on the rocks!! Let's get this party started!!
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Old 09-27-2018, 01:46 PM   #28
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I think that I find the term "Bubba" used in a prior post to be in pretty poor taste...
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Old 09-27-2018, 01:57 PM   #29
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Actually...it's not a bad term...Bubba is the only one left holding onto the old fashioned values in this world...Bubba is the one actually working to provide for his family and understands nothing is free. Bubba doesn't live a life of entitlement, expecting someone else to be held responsible for everything. Good old fashioned Bubba is the one who built this country with the sweat of his brow...holds his head high for Red, White and Blue...served this Country in a time of need and silently sheds a tear for it's current state of affairs. This video is a bit long but well worth watching...it depicts Bubba and what made us what we are!! Call me Bubba if you wish...I'll stand proud for it! You're either a Bubba or the "college kid" in this video. Great speech!!

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Old 09-27-2018, 02:03 PM   #30
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The context in which it was used; was not kind...
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Old 09-27-2018, 02:09 PM   #31
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You have to consider the source...and qualify accordingly.
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Old 09-27-2018, 02:13 PM   #32
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... Just trying to give him a chance to reconsider how his words are taken.

After all: words seem to matter so much these days!
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Old 09-27-2018, 02:36 PM   #33
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Words are the only thing in life you can't take back...once they've been heard, they are permanent.
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Old 09-27-2018, 03:15 PM   #34
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2/3 of this country's electricity is generated by burning fossil fuels. What's the point of an electric vehicle if you have to burn gas to charge it up?

Good question. Hybrid cars do get better fuel economy than their counterparts, but for me it’s not about fuel economy or being green; although I prefer being conservative with available resources, everything else being equal. And if it saves me money in the process, even better.

I like the idea of eliminating generators completely as long as I can still run my air conditioner overnight without the noise; assuming it’s allowed at all. I’ve camped in many National Parks without shore power where generators could only be run 1 hour in morning and 1 hour in evening. Also, in addition to the silence, I like not smelling exhaust fumes or worrying about its safety (granted, batteries have fire safety so not 100% safe either, but nothing is).

From a technical standpoint, it’s very easy to generate electricity with the vehicle’s engine rather than have a separate “generator”. It’s been done for 100 years. The problem is that we shouldn’t idle a large V8 all day to power a <100-Watt TV, or even a 1,000-Watt A/C. That’s where systems like the Volta have stepped in, right?

However, from my perspective, why add aftermarket large lithium batteries to power the house, and separate engine-driven alternator, if the chassis OEM can do it better and a lot cheaper? The OEM can also put that battery capacity and generator to work while driving to improve performance and fuel economy (a small amount — it won’t be much in large motorhome).



P.S. — From engineering standpoint, real issue is battery size. The mild hybrids coming out first don’t have enough battery energy capacity to be very useful, so if we want the entire system to be from Ford, GM, RAM, etc. we’ll have to step up to a plug-in hybrid, which have much larger battery bank (10~20 kWh should do). Mild hybrids often have less than 1 kWh battery size. That’s enough to run microwave for a few minutes, but not A/C.
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Old 09-27-2018, 03:49 PM   #35
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The ideology of electric vehicles is great. You're correct that it's all in the battery. Battery development is in the same stage that beepers were in the 80's...one day they will be smartphones. One day they will get it right...until then everyone will keep getting so exited at each stage of development. It's in the Tootsie Toy stage now...some day it will be a real car where "range" isn't the main consideration. The electric trucks and commercial vans are great for city use. When they drop a nuclear cell in a receptical the size of a coffee cup they will work...remember the "Flux Capacitor". Too expensive right now and not really a "renewable source".
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Old 09-27-2018, 03:52 PM   #36
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I agree...

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Old 09-27-2018, 04:37 PM   #37
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So to the engineers out there, if we take a "tesla" type battery pack and put it in a class C, how much range do we have? What if you double those batteries?

As for Gritz, I appreciate everything the baby-boomers have done for this country, but respectfully your comment about cashing out and not caring about the next generation is just horrible.... The lack of forward, long term thinking, both in the environment and financial sectors is going to be brutal going forward IMHO; not just here but worldwide. I hope you don't live long enough to see it as is your plan.....
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Old 09-27-2018, 04:40 PM   #38
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I can't speak for Gritz, but I'm planning to live forever!

So far: so good!
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Old 09-27-2018, 05:43 PM   #39
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So to the engineers out there, if we take a "tesla" type battery pack and put it in a class C, how much range do we have? What if you double those batteries?

.....cut.....
I can give an educated rough estimate.

My cousin routinely gets a little over 200 miles of range with his Tesla (really fast car by the way). A conventional car that size would get “approximately” 4 times the fuel economy of a typical Class C (say 32 versus 8 MPG), so it’s fair to say a Class C needs about 4X more power on average (more or less). This assumes most modern engines have “similar” Brake Specific Fuel Consumption.

The same battery in his Tesla (85 kWh) that powers the car just over 200 miles would therefore not go much over +/- 50 miles. That puts it in right “ballpark”.

Doubling the battery size would roughly double distance to about 100 miles. Lithium batteries, unlike lead-acid, supply roughly the same amount of energy at higher or lower power levels.



To this point of range, many motorhomes get driven so little that it would be very expensive compared to small internal combustion engine. To me, a hybrid system is more economically viable than pure electric.
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Old 09-27-2018, 05:47 PM   #40
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"The lack of forward, long term thinking, both in the environment and financial sectors is going to be brutal going forward"

Very accurate statement. I now live in the future of my past. We must have done it right. I owe no one...I generate my own income and still put money in the bank...I will live out my last years on this earth very enjoyable. I do feel very sad for today's generation (Millennials)...they are in for the biggest culture shock of their lives soon. When their parents who have competitively given them everything they want (and not much of what they need) pass on..."All Who Wonder Will Be Lost".


"your comment about cashing out and not caring about the next generation is just horrible"


TOTAL misrepresentation of my words. I have two kids that work hard, save their money and do very well for themselves. It's the generation behind them that's in trouble. Not gonna engage in crap slinging...I have too much fun here with the adults...see you guys later. I plan to live forever...that's what's been promised to me!! Go figure that one out!
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